Gates, Rocks and Keys

[JohnDB]

all of them committed to Death, More Abundantly, to a man
right

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

but mostly i think this is why Catholics should have their own section, as they are obviously a culture apart from Protestants. Your presence here can only sow more strife, wadr

Only if that is the person's focus...
If they wish to get along and understand how we aren't the enemy against all that is holy then there can be peaceful coexistence.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, best of luck with that
imo peaceful coexistence requires the respecting of boundary stones, but what do i know

I have never heard that phrase before.

i guess it is extracted from
he who says he knows anything, doesnt
being connected with "liar"
"naive dialectic" would be the polar opposite

It was first 12 and then @72.
Both sendings were given completely different missions.
And that's also important.

Now the gospel accounts actually differ...
Pay close attention to Mark's account because it genuinely belongs to Peter...Mark penned it but Peter said it. So his version of the sending of the 12 is different.

The sending of the 72 was symbolic of the start of a New Nation...just like when Jacob moved the whole family to Egypt because Joseph was going to take care of them. There was 72 in that group too.

ok, ty

 

[JohnDB]

ok, best of luck with that
imo peaceful coexistence requires the respecting of boundary stones, but what do i know
i guess it is extracted from
he who says he knows anything, doesnt
being connected with "liar"
"naive dialectic" would be the polar opposite
ok, ty

I tell you what...
This thread has gone way way off the original track of Rock, Gates, and Keys with questions on tons of stuff from a very wide variety of scriptures...
Yawl have made me stop and think harder than I've had to in a while switching gears to remember the things I've studied.

Not complaining mind you...it's just been a very diverse range of subjects about scriptures.

 

[ChristisGod]

I have never heard that phrase before.



It was first 12 and then @72.
Both sendings were given completely different missions.
And that's also important.

Now the gospel accounts actually differ...
Pay close attention to Mark's account because it genuinely belongs to Peter...Mark penned it but Peter said it. So his version of the sending of the 12 is different.

The sending of the 72 was symbolic of the start of a New Nation...just like when Jacob moved the whole family to Egypt because Joseph was going to take care of them. There was 72 in that group too.

Big difference between Apostles and Disciples.

 

[bbyrd009]

many are called, few are chosen eh?

I have never heard that phrase before.

i guess another way to ask that might be "what is eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge?"

I tell you what...
This thread has gone way way off the original track of Rock, Gates, and Keys with questions on tons of stuff from a very wide variety of scriptures...
Yawl have made me stop and think harder than I've had to in a while switching gears to remember the things I've studied.

Not complaining mind you...it's just been a very diverse range of subjects about scriptures.

line upon line, here a little there a little?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I tell you what...
This thread has gone way way off the original track of Rock, Gates, and Keys

Not sure, Was the thread ever about Gates, Rocks, and Keys?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

still amazed loose is dissolve

19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

‘I am there in their midst’
If thou take away (remove)from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; Isaiah 58:9

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Indeed, what men call good and what is good to God are not the same... unless the man calling something good is speaking by that which is of God within himself. Men switch back and forth between the ways of their old man and the Way of the new man. Consider the example of Peter who walked with Jesus for 3 years:

"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matt 16:15-17

"From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matt 16:21-23

And James speak of this here:

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways" James 1:8

The double mindedness has got to go.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

Still considering Colossians 3:22-23 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: [23] And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

With Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

What is the difference then in ‘heir’ and ‘servant’? What is the difference between:
With eye service, as men pleasers, unto men
and in singleness of heart, in whatsoever you do, do it heartily, as unto the Lord...

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matt 16:15-17

"From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matt 16:21-23

And James speak of this here:

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways" James 1:8

I’m sorry for double posting to you but just remembered what first come to mind yesterday when reading your post. The mind of the flesh, after the flesh, speaking earthly things. Or the Mind of Christ, after the Spirit and minding the things of the Spirit, speaking Spiritual things. Been Considering ‘The Mind of Christ’ with ‘do not be shaken’, how He said those things which can be shaken will be shaken so that which holds steadfast and is sure, which can not be shaken (the mind of Christ) remains.

 

[JohnDB]

Not sure, Was the thread ever about Gates, Rocks, and Keys?

Yes it was...
Standing on the understanding the rock that Jesus explained will get you the keys so you can smash the gates of hell.

Catholics don't like this because it doesn't have Peter as the apostolic leader. (There's another place in scripture that actually shows that difinitively)
And where there is not exactly a plural "you" for giving the keys or for binding and loosing the neuter "you" can be understood that way just fine without doing violence to the understanding of the passage. The other apostles including Paul and even others certainly showed their ability to do so.

Anytime you fully explain the scriptures, present the geography, topography, anthropology, and history you have to expect some flack. People don't like it when their favorite pet theologies are disrupted with the truth. They will do anything to try and make me out to be spreading lies and falsehoods.
The New Testament shows that to be true 2,000 years ago and it's still true today.

Let's get real...pastors believe in programs for a Church's success. The truth is something different. Where a pastor is held to the metrics of membership increases and Baptisms...it really isn't the best metrics for determining success or failure.

And if the focus of the op is understood...it is a success for any group of believers.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes it was...
Standing on the understanding the rock that Jesus explained will get you the keys so you can smash the gates of hell.

‘will get you the keys’ isn’t He the Key? still stuck at whatever you loose ...loose akin to dissolve maybe 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,

“lit: I loosen thoroughly), (a) trans: I break up, overthrow, destroy, both lit. and met., (b) I unyoke, unharness (untie) a carriage horse or pack animal; hence: I put up, lodge, find a lodging.

travelers, to halt on a journey, to put up, lodge (the figurative expression originating in the circumstance that, to put up for the night, the straps and packs of the beasts of burden are unbound and taken off; or, perhaps more correctly, from the fact that the traveler's garments, tied up when he is on the journey, are unloosed at its end; cf.”

 

[Giuliano]

Jesus is not denying that he, himself is good! He is saying that only God is good and certainly Jesus was not lying. So we perhaps should conclude that anytime any person does anything that God would call good, that God must be involved in that person's good action. For a person filled with the Holy Spirit, we may say fine and dandy, but then for the unbeliever who does good things, what is our understanding?

I think the person not filled yet is still getting his new bottle. No?

 

[amadeus]

Still considering Colossians 3:22-23 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: [23] And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

With Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

What is the difference then in ‘heir’ and ‘servant’?

Consider Abraham's concern with his own age, in his nineties and his wife, Sarah, only a few years younger when God told them they were to have their own son. That son was to be the heir. Without a son, the top most servant, one Eliezer of Damascus, would inherit it all. It was so important that Sarah told her husband to take one of the maids as a concubine to make an heir of his blood. He did, but they both did not really know and trust God as they should. Then when, the promised by God son, Isaac was born, he remained as a child with no authority really over what would be his inheritance. No better than Eliezer was he even yet... until he inherited. For the inheritance to actually be his, Abraham, his father would first have to die. Can we relate that to the need for a death before anyone of us may become a joint heir with Jesus?

First we must be led by the Spirit to become a son of God, to be adopted and an heir...

But is not the way up to son and heir via the way of a servant?

"For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:11

"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Rom 6:22

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Rom 8:14-17

What is the difference between:
With eye service, as men pleasers, unto men
and in singleness of heart, in whatsoever you do, do it heartily, as unto the Lord...

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Amen!

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 18:10-14

 

[amadeus]

I’m sorry for double posting to you but just remembered what first come to mind yesterday when reading your post. The mind of the flesh, after the flesh, speaking earthly things. Or the Mind of Christ, after the Spirit and minding the things of the Spirit, speaking Spiritual things. Been Considering ‘The Mind of Christ’ with ‘do not be shaken’, how He said those things which can be shaken will be shaken so that which holds steadfast and is sure, which can not be shaken (the mind of Christ) remains.

Yes, the double mindedness consists of the mind of the flesh and the Mind of Christ. People want to and do walk the fence between them wanting the best of both worlds. Before the end they must choose between them. God gave us the means to do it. Many again want to find an excuse to take goodies from both sides, to serve both God and mammon. They do it for a time, but eventually they will run out of time!

 

[amadeus]

I think the person not filled yet is still getting his new bottle. No?

Yes, and then should not the level of "Good" in our bottle be increasing while the level of that which is not good is decreasing?

There is hope for every person. We, born of women, have a glimmer of the possibility of Real Life. Notice the wording of the following verse:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

This is not speaking of being born again or from above, but being born of a woman. It is Not salvation or Real Life... but it is Hope. We can see the true Light just enough to realize there is something brighter shining at us. There is something better than this! Perhaps this is how the Father draws us toward Jesus by making us aware of the seemingly distant Light and the possibilities... then it is up to us to move toward Jesus so that Jesus may increase in us:

"He must increase, but I must decrease" John 3:30

The possibility is there! The Hope is there, but if we are unwilling to decrease in our own old ways, the ways of the old man, Jesus will Not increase in us. If He does not... are we not taking a firmer hold on the death, which we already had? Who or what should our first Love be?

 

[JohnDB]

will get you the keys’ isn’t He the Key? still stuck at whatever you loose ...loose akin to dissolve maybe 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly

No...
The orgy in the background, the THIRD YEAR of being a disciple, and the many miracles that had been performed by Jesus and the Disciples in Jesus' name and the passion alluded to all framed up in the manner framed to teach the lesson Jesus was teaching is the Rock that Jesus will build his church upon.
Because this is Jesus' kingdom. Not ours but His. Sure, He is The reason for the Kingdom's existence. But the foundation of who is allowed and why and what attractants work with the people desired is strictly up to the King.

Honestly there are times that you wonder if you are standing in a tare field that has a few stalks of wheat in it or are you in a wheat field with some tares. And that's one of the reason why...wrong attractants used to gather people.

The Binding and Loosening is something very difficult for people to understand today because of the difference of societal norms.
We aren't a culture that believes in strict procedures that were instilled with the Temple worship. (All those who failed to do it properly were immediately dead...which is why bells on the chest and a rope tied to the ankle of the high priest became a necessity)

We have much looser restrictions placed on worship today.

And that's what was being referred to here...
Is fasting and praying for three days before being baptized needed?
(At one point it was)

Is whipping a suitable punishment in strictly Christian communities for certain crimes?
(Not necessarily)

Is excommunication always the best practice for what the community somehow decided was a sin?
(Tobacco use, alcohol use, fistfight, or dancing to music)

How about a non-denominational visiting in a strictly Calvinistic community... (should he be executed?)

Should we clean out the Moslem controlled Jerusalem of all Moslems?

Was the judicial system correct in the book the Scarlett Letter?

All these things have happened in the past... sometimes the answers were clear...at other times not so clear because we lost the first principle of what foundation for the church is to be.
Binding and loosing is acceptable if you don't lose the first principle. In history we have made some collosal mistakes

 

[ChristisGod]

Really quote the scripture, do you understand the context of your claim ?

its confronting a brother/sister in sin.

Matthew 18:15-20
15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Jesus is there in your midst when 2 or 3 are gathered together as witnesses against your sinning brother.

Its the most misused passage in scripture as it has nothing whatsoever to do with 2 or 3 people together saying Jesus is with them its when confronting a sinning brother or sister.

Matthew 18:15-20
15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”


hope this helps !!!