gay christians?

[Lizbeth]

Since all sins are already forgiven past present and future, why do so many Christians say people that are gay cannot be saved?

I went to school with a few people that were gay and they said they were Christians.

I never used to know what to think about the homosexuality question at all, for the longest time I just came up blank so to speak, and then one day the simple wisdom that came from the Lord was that it is to be treated like any other sin. That is, homosexuals may come to Christ and be forgiven and cleansed and receive a fresh start like anyone. Then they, the same as any of us, need to work out our salvation in the fear of the Lord, and go and sin no more. God does not discriminate and neither should we, the gospel is the same for everyone regardless of anyone's particular brand of temptation and weakness. And we are all tested and tried to see whether we will DENY OURSELVES and take up our cross to follow Jesus. Our faith must be proven...."the proving of your faith", which I believe speaks to both testing as well as maturing...good leaven growing up, like proving bread dough when the yeast rises. Sin lives in our flesh.....we need to learn to deny and die to the flesh and walk in the spirit so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Learning to put on our new nature and put off the old, etc.....the same spiritual biblical instruction, admonishments, warnings etc, apply to all who come to Christ without respect of persons.

Some bondages I believe are harder to overcome than others and can vary from individual to individual. Those charged and gifted with spiritual oversight in the church might need to and should ASK THE LORD FOR WISDOM concerning individual cases. He is alive and promises to give wisdom to those who will ask Him for it. And I can testify that He is true to His word. Sometimes asking Him is the last thing that occurs to us to do when it should be the first, lol. I'm often the worst for that and have needed to lose my habit of SELF-reliance, hoo-boy. Doing better than in the beginning at least, thanks be to God.

 

[Taken]

No, Taken. It is YOU who is twisting MY words into a lie. You deliberately left off the part of the sentence that's after the ellipsis.
I simply responded to what Dan Clarkston wrote when he expressed that Catholics pray to Mary rather than praying directly to the Father in Jesus name.

I wrote: "Plus, it's not as if Catholics pray through Mary instead of praying through Jesus." The bolded is what's after the ellipsis that you didn't include.

I read what you wrote….
you pray though mary…(your fact, not mine).
and then attempt a vague explanation … is you pray though mary TO JESUS?

IS ^ THAT your point?

 

[Marymog]

I think if it was meant to say Judas sinned when betraying Jesus, the text would read as such.

What is interesting is the question,how would Jesus have been put to death,died, for the sins of the world if the first sinner that is Satan didn't take that first step to make it happen?

I disagree on your first sentence.

I LOVE your second sentence. Satan took the 1st step to make it happen. Very theological.....

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Marymog]

No theory, just Bible 1John 3:6.

Yes,God calls gays to his grace. However, if they continue to be sexually active homosexuals,they are not abiding in Christ.

Which means they are nominal Christians. That means they're claiming the identity of Christian , yet are not one.

1 John 3:6 is not about gay people only.

With that said when a person that is having an extra-marital affair on their spouse, they are not abiding in Christ. Which means they are a nominal Christian. That means they are claiming the identity of Christian yet are not one.

A person that steals on a regular basis, they are not abiding in Christ. Which means they are a nominal Christian. That means they are claiming the identity of Christian yet are not one.

A person that bares false witness, they are not abiding in Christ.........etc etc

I think you get the point.

 

[St. SteVen]

--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?

/

 

[Marymog]

No, Taken. It is YOU who is twisting MY words into a lie.

@Taken does that with Scripture also......

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

1 John 3:6 is not about gay people only.

With that said when a person that is having an extra-marital affair on their spouse, they are not abiding in Christ. Which means they are a nominal Christian. That means they are claiming the identity of Christian yet are not one.

A person that steals on a regular basis, they are not abiding in Christ. Which means they are a nominal Christian. That means they are claiming the identity of Christian yet are not one.

A person that bares false witness, they are not abiding in Christ.........etc etc

I think you get the point.

1 John 3:6 answers your former pointed question. Thanks.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Judas did what he had to do so that scripture would be fulfilled.
Jesus knew the plan. He told Judas to do what needed to be done quickly.
Prophecies regarding thirty pieces of silver being thrown to the Potter's field, had to be fulfilled.
Believe it or not, Judas did the will of the Father.
Now Peter on the other hand... He denied Christ 3 times in the same night.
Jesus warned Peter, if I be denied before men, then I will deny them before God.
Where was Peter's faith???

And of course it is Peter who throws the first stone at Judas calling him the betrayer.
But I digress...

Zec 11:12
And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Zec 11:13
And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

Mat 26:14
Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests,
Mat 26:15
And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
Mat 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4
Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Mat 27:5
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6
And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7
And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Mat 27:8
Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
Mat 27:9
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
Mat 27:10
And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.

Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Judas didn't have a choice in the matter. He was Chosen and appointed to this end.
What will God do when he stands before the judgement seat?

If you sent someone on a mission and they went, would that be held against you?
Or what if you were sent on a mission and you didn't go, would you be rewarded for it?

Mat 21:28
But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Yet, it was Satan within Judas that lead to Jesus fulfilling prophecy. Judas himself was not consciously acting in that regard.

Which is why Judas the man did not sin.

Human example of occupation and death.

If someone enters my truck and kills a particular pedestrian on purpose,am I,the owner of that truck, responsible later?

If Judas would betray Jesus of his own accord,why would Satan enter him to make it happen? And besides,Jesus commanded Judas-Satan, to go and do what he must do,quickly.

Must do.

Whether we believe Satan literally possessed Judas,or Judas sinned of his own accord,which by the way would mean Jesus abided sin when then commanding Judas to go forth, it all was necessary to fulfill prophecy.

 

[Taken]

@Taken does that with Scripture also......

Prove it!

 

[Mink57]

I read what you wrote….
you pray though mary…(your fact, not mine).
and then attempt a vague explanation … is you pray though mary TO JESUS?

IS ^ THAT your point?

How is my explanation 'vague' when you nearly repeated what I wrote?

 

[Taken]

How is my explanation 'vague' when you nearly repeated what I wrote?

You did not SAY you pray through Mary to Jesus….(ie VAGUE)…

Question…were you IMPLYING, without SAYING….Catholics pray THROUGH Mary TO Jesus FOR others who pray TO Mary?

 

[JohnDB]

Thank you for the clarification.

I NEVER want to return to a lifestyle characterized by sin. However, I know that I have free will and that I am not a puppet of God. I could return to that lifestyle. Where does Scripture give the criteria that one has to meet for a personal relationship with God? What are the rules? How do I know WHAT I need to do to have a personal relationship with God?

Mary

It's listed in four books called the Gospels....
And where 3 of the 4 writers were Jewish from the Ancient Near East they are easily understood by some careful study of the texts using a blend of art and sciences (AKA hermeneutics) to decipher the writings.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why presume it is female?

You don't notice? The personality and hate filled behavior of MoG and that other one, are identical.

Funny how easily hate-filled anti-Catholics confise intolerance for filthy lies with "hate".
Try telling the TRUTH sometime and you'll get a warmer response . . .

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't think a 5 year old boy who prefers to plat Barbie with the neighborhood girls,
nor the girl in that group who chooses to be the Ken doll are making a moral decision.

And they may both grow out of it, or the boy may end up as a clothing designer
and the girl as a road construction worker. Have we crossed any moral boundaries yet?

But it's pretty clear that the boy always felt like a girl in a male body, and the girl as a boy in a female body.
In fact we are fully supportive of Tomboys but so much when it comes to... what do we even call them?
The Tomboy is accepted an celebrated, while the boy is branded as gay.

/

All of which I agree with in principle, but none of which helps me to deal with a non-hypothetical case.

(5-year-olds are closer to having a substantially functioning frontal lobe than a 3-year-old, which is what we were talking about before—some of this kind of stuff is good to know if you're trying to help people—you trying to move the goalposts on me, SS?)

Do you see what I'm saying?

I've never seen any of this kind of rumination change a heart that is predisposed to being judgmental, and the heart is the problem.

And, in the end, it plays right into the postmodern deconstructionist philosophy that's gotten us into the mess in which we now find ourselves.

Psychological speculation is not going to help me love someone who is caught in sin if the grace of Jesus isn't residing in my heart.

Sin is sin, whether I'm right about presuming as to whether it exists in another man or child's heart or not, and whether it exists in motives or actions.

If it's not sin then there's nothing for me to forgive—not much of a spiritual workout for me.

I just don't see how judging, whether good or bad, helps. If I esteem others better than myself and treat them as I'd like to be treated, whatever sin they may have stays between them and God—where it belongs. If they want my help overcoming it, I'm honored to give it gracefully.

I don't relate to sin in others the same way I relate to it in a discussion on a Christian forum about what sin is.

Does it?
Probably more complex than that.

And I think that is my biggest beef on this subject.
Christianity, or the church wants to make it a B+W issue.

The problem is best solved by a clear distinction between our duty to God and our duty to others.

We have a duty to God to call sin by its right name (in the right place; at the right time) and forgive it, as He also forgave us, especially in others.

"Standards in the macro; compassion in the micro."

I am ready and willing to love, but I'm never willing to hate by calling sin "righteousness."

.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You did not SAY you pray through Mary to Jesus….(ie VAGUE)…

Question…were you IMPLYING, without SAYING….Catholics pray THROUGH Mary TO Jesus FOR others who pray TO Mary?

We Catholics use ALL of the help that God has bestowed upon us in times of need, namely, the prayers of the Body of Christ.

Can YOU tell me when Mary and the saints in Heaven were kicked OUT of the Body?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Their accounts can be throttled. Limited to a post a day, for example. A Mod or Admin can also track their IP address and slam the ban hammer if these are just sock puppet accounts.

That's exactly what Leftists and atheists do.

They BAN truth and free speech because they cannot handle dissneting opinions.
That's about as cowardly as it gets.

If your "truth" didn't have so many man-made HOLES in it - it wouldn't be so easy to destroy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

For those who have never been part of a mainline church body, this is what the beginning of a schism looks like. First there will blessings of SS marriages regardless of how that is defined. Then the clergy that resist will be replaced. Then the laity that object will be drummed out of their churches. Then the development will come from on high. Then there will be a schism. Mark my words, it won’t stop with blessings of individuals in irregular relationships. I saw the same thing with Anglicans.

No - you won't

The Catholic Church has NEVER done an about-face onn a SINGLE doctrinal matte in 2000 years - unlike viurtuakky EVERY Protestant faction has.

How do you like them apples?

 

[Mr E]

That's exactly what Leftists and atheists do.

They BAN truth and free speech because they cannot handle dissneting opinions.
That's about as cowardly as it gets.

If your "truth" didn't have so many man-made HOLES in it - it wouldn't be so easy to destroy . . .

Get some context BOL. We were talking about how to handle sock puppet accounts.

 

[Mr E]

No - you won't

The Catholic Church has NEVER done an about-face onn a SINGLE doctrinal matte in 2000 years - unlike viurtuakky EVERY Protestant faction has.

How do you like them apples?

Baloney.

 

[Illuminator]

Fiducia Supplicans is not the same as the Anglican drift into amorality. The hyper-traditionists, the fundies and the media read it with an uncharitable disposition and try to make it say what isn't there.