GEN 1:1-2 SPEAKS MORE THAN CREATION!

[n2thelight]

Let's look at Jeremiah again

Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Genesis 1:1 ,does it say when?

Planet Earth doesn't have a birth certificate to record its formation, which means scientists spent hundreds of years struggling to determine the age of the planet. So, just how old is Earth?

By dating the rocks in Earth's ever-changing crust, as well as the rocks in Earth's neighbors, such as the moon and visiting meteorites, scientists have calculated that Earth is 4.54 billion years old, with an error range of 50 million years.

When God created this earth,we were not in flesh.Oh and I don't do evolution.

It all starts off with the earth without form and void, totally surrounded by water. How long it was in that condition, we don't know. But what we do know is that the sun, moon, and stars were created after the earth on the 4th 24 hour day. This means that the whole cosmos around the earth was created in one day. So, if God can create a whole universe in one day, then He would have even less difficulty creating the earth in a much shorter time. How do we know if the earth was created in less than a 24 hour day?

Only the Person who was there can tell us that, and He did, in Genesis 1.

Also, carbon dating is unreliable, because the amount of atoms that need to change has to be known, and that cannot be reliably known because no one can go back and measure any samples of rock that existed 6000 years ago to find out. So scientists can only guess at it. And for the measurement to be reliable the rate of the change from the radio active atoms in the rock to lead has to be regular and not variable. But we don't know whether the change was regular or variable. Also, if there were radio active atoms in the rocks millions of years ago, the passage of time would have had them all change to lead long before now, so there would be no way to measure the change at all, because it would have been all over.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Let's look at Jeremiah again

Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

All you are doing is cobbling some random verses out of context together to support your opinion. The verse in Jeremiah that describes the earth as being without form and void is just a repeat of Genesis 1. The other verses could well have described the global Flood when the level of destruction altered the whole geography of the world.

 

[n2thelight]

Do you'll understand that the water was above the earth?

All you are doing is cobbling some random verses out of context together to support your opinion. The verse in Jeremiah that describes the earth as being without form and void is just a repeat of Genesis 1. The other verses could well have described the global Flood when the level of destruction altered the whole geography of the world.

All you doing is not reading.It CLEARLY states that God DID NOT create the earth void,it was perfect.

In the flood of Noah,there were people ,when God destroyed it the fist time,there was nothing

 

[Paul Christensen]

Do you'll understand that the water was above the earth?


All you doing is not reading.It CLEARLY states that God DID NOT create the earth void,it was perfect.

In the flood of Noah,there were people ,when God destroyed it the fist time,there was nothing

How would you explain Genesis 1:1 where it says the earth was without form and was void at the start of the first day of creation?

"Above the earth". If the earth is a sphere, where is "above" if not surrounding?

I concur that in the context of the reference in Jeremiah 4, would more likely be describing the destruction of the then known world through the global Flood.

 

[n2thelight]

So let's zoom to Isiah

Isaiah 45:18 "for thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

Before we get into this verse, let's understand the Hebrew word used for "vain". In the Hebrew text the word is "tohu", and this is the same word as God gave in Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The word "tohu" means void and without form. God is saying that He did not create the earth void and without form, but it became that way. "And the earth was" is also a phrase that we must take back to the Hebrew text, for the word "was" in the Hebrew text should read "became". In the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, the number is 1961. "Hayah, haw-yaw', a prime root, to become, or come to pass, to cause to happen." The earth was not created "tohu" or without form and void, but became that way.

In Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." This is a flat statement, and the purpose of His creation is given to us here in Isaiah 45:18; "He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He fored it to be inhabited:" He "established" it to give it order, and the purpose for establishing it was that it would be "inhabited." It was in that established place that the dinosaurs, and all the other creatures that are extinct today, roamed.

We can go to the poles of this earth and find tropical plants, and sharp frozen animals with butter-cups still in their mouths. The dogs that pulled the sleds can still eat the meat from those thousands of years old creatures. The earth was created from pole to pole with no ice and no desolation, but an event happened to cause the earth to become that way. God is telling you here that He is the Lord, and He created the earth perfect. So we see from this verse that something happened between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, that the earth that was created perfect and with habitation, became a complete waste and empty of life. Even to the point of the stars and sun not existing for a certain period of time.

Again,READ!!!!

 

[n2thelight]

How would you explain Genesis 1:1 where it says the earth was without form and was void at the start of the first day of creation?

"Above the earth". If the earth is a sphere, where is "above" if not surrounding?

I concur that in the context of the reference in Jeremiah 4, would more likely be describing the destruction of the then known world through the global Flood.

The correct word for (was) should had been ,became,that's why the translators put that word(was)in italics....

 

[Paul Christensen]

So let's zoom to Isiah

Isaiah 45:18 "for thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

Before we get into this verse, let's understand the Hebrew word used for "vain". In the Hebrew text the word is "tohu", and this is the same word as God gave in Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The word "tohu" means void and without form. God is saying that He did not create the earth void and without form, but it became that way. "And the earth was" is also a phrase that we must take back to the Hebrew text, for the word "was" in the Hebrew text should read "became". In the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, the number is 1961. "Hayah, haw-yaw', a prime root, to become, or come to pass, to cause to happen." The earth was not created "tohu" or without form and void, but became that way.

In Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." This is a flat statement, and the purpose of His creation is given to us here in Isaiah 45:18; "He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He fored it to be inhabited:" He "established" it to give it order, and the purpose for establishing it was that it would be "inhabited." It was in that established place that the dinosaurs, and all the other creatures that are extinct today, roamed.

We can go to the poles of this earth and find tropical plants, and sharp frozen animals with butter-cups still in their mouths. The dogs that pulled the sleds can still eat the meat from those thousands of years old creatures. The earth was created from pole to pole with no ice and no desolation, but an event happened to cause the earth to become that way. God is telling you here that He is the Lord, and He created the earth perfect. So we see from this verse that something happened between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, that the earth that was created perfect and with habitation, became a complete waste and empty of life. Even to the point of the stars and sun not existing for a certain period of time.

Again,READ!!!!

The Gap theory is an invention of man and an addition to the Scripture. Proverbs 30:6-6 says: "Do not add to God's word, otherwise God will come to you and rebuke you and you will be found a liar".

The earth was planted out on day 3, before the cosmos was formed on day 4. The animals were created on day 5, and man on day 6.

Genesis 1:1 is the general description of what God did. Genesis 1:2 onwards is how He went about it over 6 days. This is quite normal, because I could say, I hoovered my whole house today. The house was untidy and the carpets were full of dust. I tidied up the rooms, and that was the first ten minutes. I then hoovered the lounge, and that was the second ten minutes. Then I did the bedrooms, and that was the third ten minutes. After that I looked at the result and said to myself, the house is really clean now.

According to your Gap Theory teaching, I cleaned up the house first, then there was a gap of time when it became dirty and untidy again, so I went and did all the cleaning again. But that is not what I did. The house was untidy and dirty to start off with, so I cleaned it and described how I went about it.

You can use me of using man's logic, but all I did was use my brain which I tend to leave on when reading the Bible - not like some who switch it off!

 

[Heart2Soul]

the creation days are not 24 hr days. each day was over a thousand years to give plants time to grow and reproduce, animals to do the same and people to reproduce.

It only makes sense

As for Adam and Eve who were formed in Gen 2, days and years of their life and children are noted in scripture.

I have had this discussion many times....if the 6 days of creation were literal then the earth is VERY YOUNG in comparison to the rest of the universe and solar system.
6k years BC....and this is 2020 AD that equals a little over 8 thousand years.
I have come to understand more about the 3 earth ages through studying and the Holy Spirit giving me revelation of scriptures I didn't discern the meaning.

 

[101G]

I have had this discussion many times....if the 6 days of creation were literal then the earth is VERY YOUNG in comparison to the rest of the universe and solar system.
6k years BC....and this is 2020 AD that equals a little over 8 thousand years.
I have come to understand more about the 3 earth ages through studying and the Holy Spirit giving me revelation of scriptures I didn't discern the meaning.

it's good to hear many are reading instead of relying soley on someone else words or thoughts, which is good, but check it out in the scriptures, as you said with the Holy Ghost. yes there are two earth ages, one before the flood, and now the one we're in, post flood. and one more, the last one, yet to come.

any timeline on the earth, meaning, (Linear time), is only considered after the fall. I don't believe Adam nor Eve advance in age of natural decay untill sin came in the world. supportive scripture, Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". to die is a state of decay which can then be measured by Linear time, hence we get "age".
so the real question to me is "How long was Adam and Eve in the Garden before they sinned?".

for there are two lines of desent from Adam. the children they had in the garden before the fall, (called the holy ones), and those they had after the fall, (called sinners by inheritance).

so before the fall of man even the rocks don't know how old they are, less man himself only God knows.

PICJAG.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Read the Old Testament genealogy where it shows how old Adam was when his son was born, and how old his son was when his grandson was born, and so on; and you will find that it was 4000 years from Adam to Abraham; after that it was 2000 to Christ, and 2000 years to the present day. That is what the Bible is saying about how long mankind has been on the earth. Perhaps you missed that reference in the Bible, which contradicts what you are saying about the Bible not saying that the earth is just 6000 years old.

Also, there are 2600 places in the Bible where it uses the Hebrew or Greek word for "day", and although there are several meanings for "day", such as the "day" of the Lord, meaning the time of the Lord. But when evening or morning is included in the word "day" in the Bible it means a 24 hour day. It is significant that in every other place in the Bible where evening or morning or both is used it means 24 hour day and people accept it, when it comes to Genesis 1 where God repeats "evening" and "morning" for each day of creation, people say, "Oh no. It doesn't mean 24 hour days!" This shows that people have blinkers on when it comes to Genesis 1 and they depart from clear logic!

So, before going on about what the Bible say or doesn't say, try reading it first before making unsubstantiated comments that can easily be disproved, and you end up with egg on your face.

It is evident that you lack a proper understanding of the subject, I would suggest you see our blog post entitled, The Record of Creation, for a little more insight.

 

[101G]

It is evident that you lack a proper understanding of the subject, I would suggest you see our blog post entitled, The Record of Creation, for a little more insight.

I was looking back over those post and some are very interesting, which I'll read in more detail later today, for there is much good information there. thanks,

PICJAG.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is evident that you lack a proper understanding of the subject, I would suggest you see our blog post entitled, The Record of Creation, for a little more insight.

Let me get this straight. It seems that your blog states that we interpret the Bible through science. In other words our understanding of Scripture, namely Genesis 1-3 is on the basis of the laws of science.

This is where we differ. I make the Bible as the foundation truth, and base the laws of science on it. So that instead of the Bible confirming science, science confirms what the Bible has already said.

As more and more scientific discoveries are made, it is showing that the Bible is totally correct in its statements. For instance, when early scientists discovered that the world was round and not flat, the Biblical statement about "the circle of the earth" was confirmed as being true. When it was discovered that the world hung in space, the Biblical statement, "God hung the earth on nothing" was shown to be entirely correct.

The Bible spoke about Hittites, and for a long time historians said that the society was just mythical, until archaeologists discovered artifacts that proved beyond doubt that there actually was a Hittite empire. Other historians did not believe that Babylon did not exist until archaeologists found the ruins of it, and underneath those ruins they discovered ancient foundations of a tower, which they realised could have been the tower of Babel. Then they found out through the history of Alexander the Great, that the ruins of the tower of Babel did exist, and he had destroyed them.

Many scientists did not believe that there was ever a global flood which destroyed every land animal, but upon examining the fossil records in the rock layers of the Grand Canyon they discovered fossil remains of sea creatures, such as a fish in the middle of eating another fish, which showed that a sudden cataclysmic event had occurred that had washed sea creatures thousands of miles inland, and even near to the top of Mt Everest. In actual fact, the same rock formations containing fossils of animal and sea life are found in every continent in the world which conclusively show a global flood. The Bible says that the flood rose to 15 cubits above the highest mountains. One archaeologist found a fossilised bee and under the microscope, found blood vessels in it, which could never have existed if the fossil was millions of years old.

Also, dinosaur bones have been found with flexible tissue in them which shows that they died relatively recently; and in another place, a complete skeleton was found which showed the signs of being shifted from one place to another by a significant flow of water.. This confirms the recent existence of dinosaurs and what God said to Job about the behemoth which was still living in his time. Also cave drawings of dinosaurs alongside those of domestic animals has been discovered showing that early man had seen them.

I have given you some examples where what the Bible has already said, has been confirmed by subsequent scientific discoveries, which show the Bible as the foundation of science, is totally accurate, rather than science being the foundation of how we interpret the Bible.

A

 

[Harvest 1874]

Let me get this straight. It seems that your blog states that we interpret the Bible through science. In other words our understanding of Scripture, namely Genesis 1-3 is on the basis of the laws of science.

It appears from your opening statement here that you did not take sufficient time to look over what was stated, but immediately jumped to an erroneous conclusion right from the start.

We DO NOT interpret the Scriptures through science, we only accept scientific study as far as it harmonizes with the Scriptures. It is the general procedure with those who disagree with something to make a quick scan to see what they can find fault with rather than to honestly consider all that is said, and as usual those who go looking for faults are sure to find them, even if they are only their own imaginings based on their own misunderstandings.

The view you advocate, the young earth theory has been debated many times over the years and was found to have far to many holes in it to be even considered a reasonable theory.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is evident that you lack a proper understanding of the subject, I would suggest you see our blog post entitled, The Record of Creation, for a little more insight.

To continue:

For something to be proved by science, the scientific method must be used. This involves observation in the present and able to be repeated in a laboratory.

So we know that supernovas exist because they have been observed through a telescope. We know that dinosours existed because we have their bones. But we don't know what they actually looked like because we don't have any photographs of them, so the pictures are merely artists' impressions of what they might have looked like. We know that there was a world wide flood, because we can observe the rock layers in places in all the continents that show in one layer there is nothing, and the layer above is totally filled with all types of fossilised animal and sea life, and above that there is an erosion layer. We have many examples of fossilised plant, animal and sea life that show what they looked like at the time they were deposited in the particular rock layer. The particular rock layers of the same type were repeated in the Mt St Helen volcano eruption in 1980, showing that it doesn't have to take millions of years to produce them. It has been proved that the earth is round through circumnavigation of the earth where the traveller, without changing direction has finished exactly where he started; and we know the earth is a sphere hanging in space through photographs taken during the Apollo missions to the moon.

These are just examples of evidence that exists in the present. Evolutionists and Creationists examine exactly the same evidence but come to entirely different conclusions based on the foundation of what they believe.

But science cannot prove what has happened in the past through the scientific method, if we don't have photographs, or historical records. We know that Jesus existed because we have detailed historical records through the four gospels, Josephus, and Tacitus; but we don't know what He looked like because we don't have any photographs of Him - only artists' impressions created from their own imagination. We know that Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great existed because there are historical records of them. These historical records can be read in our present and we accept them as accurate, because there are statues and artifacts that support the historical records.

But science cannot prove that the dinosaur bones are millions of years old. What we have are the present day examples of the bones, so we know that dinosaurs existed, but science cannot show exactly when. It is the same with the fossil records in the rock layers. We know that they exist, but we don't know when they got there. Because we don't have a photo of the tower of Babel, we can only go on the Biblical description of it which is not comprehensive. All we have is the remains of a foundation, to show us where it was, but all the pictures of it are from just an artist's imagination.

So science cannot prove the origins of the universe, the world, and mankind, because those origins cannot be observed and studied. Therefore, any theory of the origins must be based on belief and faith. This means that creationism and evolution are not sciences at all because neither can be proved through the scientific method. So they both must be belief systems. The Webster Dictionary defines religion as a belief system. According to this definition, both evolution and creationism are religions, and evolutionists and creationists are equally dogmatic about their particular religion, and view the existing evidence on their own religious foundation. This is why an evolutionist is dogmatic that the evidence proves evolution and makes it scientifically real, and the creationist views the same evidence and is equally dogmatic.

But the bottom line is that neither can conclusively prove their particular belief system by actual science, because there is no scientific method can can provide the proof.

So, this is why my foundation is the literal text of the Bible as the absolute truth, because there was a Person who was actually there, who not only observed it, but made it happen.

So I choose to take God's word over man's theories. I don't evaluate God's word by what man theorises or proposes. I take God's literal Word as the truth, and where science, through the scientific method can show it, then I can say that science confirms the truth of God's Word, but if a theory cannot be proved by the scientific method, then I believe what the Bible says about it rather than what a man's theory says.

 

[Harvest 1874]

So I choose to take God's word over man's theories. I don't evaluate God's word by what man theorises or proposes. I take God's literal Word as the truth, and where science, through the scientific method can show it, then I can say that science confirms the truth of God's Word, but if a theory cannot be proved by the scientific method, then I believe what the Bible says about it rather than what a man's theory says.

You say that you take God's word over man's, but yet you believe in a theory founded and established by men, Young Earth creationism, a theory based primarily upon conjecture and supposition.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It appears from your opening statement here that you did not take sufficient time to look over what was stated, but immediately jumped to an erroneous conclusion right from the start.

We DO NOT interpret the Scriptures through science, we only accept scientific study as far as it harmonizes with the Scriptures. It is the general procedure with those who disagree with something to make a quick scan to see what they can find fault with rather than to honestly consider all that is said, and as usual those who go looking for faults are sure to find them, even if they are only their own imaginings based on their own misunderstandings.

The view you advocate, the young earth theory has been debated many times over the years and was found to have far to many holes in it to be even considered a reasonable theory.

All of what you have said is to do with religious belief and not true science. Whether a person believes in a young or old earth is dependent on his religious foundation; in other words it is according to what he believes, rather than what can be proved by the scientific method. People tend to be quite dogmatic about their particular religious belief.

Science cannot prove by observation and repeatability whether the earth is young or old, because no human scientist was there to observe it, and the evidence either way cannot be repeated in a laboratory. Any scientist will tell you that.

So, my religious foundation is in the literal text of the Bible, and reading the literal Old Testament genealogy from Adam to Abraham, it gives 4000 years from one to the other. Then, according to the historical narratives in the Bible, there were another 2000 years until the death of Christ, and we know that was 2000 years ago. So what I see in the literal Biblical record is that the earth is 6000 years old, with Adam being created six 24hr days after the earth was first formed. That is my dogmatic religious foundation and there is absolutely no science that can disprove it in my mind.

So it will be impossible for you to convert me into believing that the earth is more than 6000 years old, because I take God's literal word for it over and above anything that man could theorise.

But I understand that your belief in an old world is part of your religious belief. You can't say that your belief is based on scientific evidence because there is none that can conclusively show it. All science can do is to observe the geology of the earth in the present, as it is now, but it can't show what it was when it was first formed, because no one was there to examine the rocks by direct observation. Carbon-14 dating has been shown to have major flaws as this article shows:
Carbon dating accuracy called into question after major flaw discovery
But I suspect that you will say this article is false because it will not fit into the foundation of your religious belief. This is because any conclusive evidence that might show that your foundation is unreliable would have to be ignored because it would have the potential to destroy your foundation of belief, and the alternative, if you are not willing to accept the literal text of the Bible, then you will find yourself without a foundation at all, and that would not be attractive to you.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Can anyone explain these two verses?
"Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work" Genesis 2:1-2.

If the Bible clearly says that by the seventh day, the work of creation was totally completed, and that God had finished the work, this has to mean that if there was evolution, it ceased after day six, 6000 years ago.

So to say that the earth kept evolving after the sixth day of creation is to deny what God has clearly said in His Word. That would destroy the gospel of Christ because if what God says here is not true, how can anyone say that the gospel of Christ is true?

 

[Harvest 1874]

So, my religious foundation is in the literal text of the Bible, and reading the literal Old Testament genealogy from Adam to Abraham, it gives 4000 years from one to the other. Then, according to the historical narratives in the Bible, there were another 2000 years until the death of Christ, and we know that was 2000 years ago. So what I see in the literal Biblical record is that the earth is 6000 years old, with Adam being created six 24hr days after the earth was first formed. That is my dogmatic religious foundation and there is absolutely no science that can disprove it in my mind.

So it will be impossible for you to convert me into believing that the earth is more than 6000 years old, because I take God's literal word for it over and above anything that man could theorise.

You better go back and re-read some of that literal text which you so admire, as you have erred in your assertion that from Adam to Abraham was 4000 years. The Scriptures inform us that is was 1656 years from the creation of Adam to the flood and that it was another 427 years until God made his covenant with Abraham a total of 2083 years.

I would suggest you take a look at, The True Bible Chronology for further clarification on this matter.

But I understand that your belief in an old world is part of your religious belief. You can't say that your belief is based on scientific evidence because there is none that can conclusively show it.

We never said that our belief is based on scientific evidence, its based on the scriptures, this is simply you once again jumping to hasty conclusions an assuming erroneously the thoughts of others. You really should stick to what you believe and not try to assume what others believe.

All science can do is to observe the geology of the earth in the present, as it is now, but it can't show what it was when it was first formed, because no one was there to examine the rocks by direct observation. Carbon-14 dating has been shown to have major flaws as this article shows:
Carbon dating accuracy called into question after major flaw discovery
But I suspect that you will say this article is false because it will not fit into the foundation of your religious belief. This is because any conclusive evidence that might show that your foundation is unreliable would have to be ignored because it would have the potential to destroy your foundation of belief, and the alternative, if you are not willing to accept the literal text of the Bible, then you will find yourself without a foundation at all, and that would not be attractive to you.

If you had taken the time to read what was stated in our blog (which evidently you did not as is exemplified here) you would have noted that we discussed the same issue of Carbon dating and how unreliable it is.

As for my faith, my foundation is Christ, and it is sure, God's word is the final authority on all matters of faith, not man's and certainly not the delusional babblings of young earth creationist.

 

[Jay Ross]

You better go back and re-read some of that literal text which you so admire, as you have erred in your assertion that from Adam to Abraham was 4000 years. The Scriptures inform us that is was 1656 years from the creation of Adam to the flood and that it was another 427 years until God made his covenant with Abraham a total of 2083 years.

<snip>

I can agree on the date for the start of the flood, but your view that 427 years later, God entered into his covenant with Abraham, is a little more difficult for me to come to terms with.

By my calculations I can determine the following: -

The flood lasted for 1 year
Arachshad was born 2 years later
Shelah when Arachshad was 35 years old
Eber when Shelah was 30 years old
Peleg when Eber was 34 years old
Reu when Peleg was 30 years old
Serug when Rue was 32 years old
Nahor when Serug was 30 years old
Terah when Nahor was 29 years old
Abram (Abraham) when Terah was 70 years old

So summing all of these we arrive at the date when Abraham was born: -

1656 + (1 + 2 + 35 + 30 + 34 + 30 + 32 + 30 + 29 + 70 = 293 ) = 1949 years after the creation of Adam.

But, then some wish to dispute the Genesis record of when the Patriarchs were born and add another 60 years to this total because of Acts 7 where Stephen stated that Abraham left Haran "after his father had died," without understanding the context of this expression in that when Abraham was around 59 years of age, Noah, his father, born 10 descendant generations previously, had died while Abraham was in Haran, and then around 16 years later when Abraham was 75 years of age, Abraham left Haran as we are told in Genesis 12:4b.

Now Stephen also stated that God had entered into a covenant with Abraham while he was still in Ur of the Chaldean's, and that this was possibly occurred when Abraham was around 47-50 years of age, which means that it occurred around the year 1999 after the creation of Adam.

Now we must remember that the Bible is silent as to the actual year in which God did enter into the covenant with Abraham, and any of the dates determined as to the years in which the covenant was entered into is pure conjecture on our part.

But in the above quote, you have claimed that it occurred in the year 2083 AA, some 84 years later, but if we accept the chronology of the Genesis account, Isaac's birth, which was the confirmation of God Covenant with Abraham when Abraham was 100 years old, means that Isaac was born in the year 2049 AA, some 24 years after the birth of Isaac.

Now because some people have wrongly assumed that Terah had died just before Abraham left Haran, 60 years later, that Isaac was born in the year 2109 AA, which would mean that Abraham left Haran around the year 2084 AA, and that this gives us the time span of 428 years after the flood, from which you have subtracted 1 year from to arrive at the magical number of 427 years between the start of the flood and God entering into a covenant with Abraham.

I would suggest that you go back and check your logic before you make claims that are not reliant on the Biblical scriptures to support your claims.

I can justify all of what I have posted above from the scriptures. Can you.

Shalom