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Giants on the Earth

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Eric E Stahl, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl New Member

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    [SIZE=18pt]Giants on the Earth[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=18pt]Genesis 6[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]2[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]3[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]4[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] There were giants in the earth in those days; [/SIZE]and also after that[SIZE=10pt], when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt](At the time of the flood all of Cain’s children died. Therefore when it happens again in our time, the daughters of men can’t be from Cain.)[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]Jude 1:6-7[/SIZE]
    6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them [SIZE=16pt]in like manner[/SIZE], giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


    [SIZE=10pt](The angels went after strange flesh by taking the daughters of mankind for wives.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]There have been large skeletons of men found all over the earth. You can see their pictures on you tube.)[/SIZE]
     
  2. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Eric.

    ... AND they all died in the Flood. End of story.
     
  3. Dan57

    Dan57 Active Member

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    Keep reading; "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" (Numbers 13:33). So it seems, it wasn't the end of the story. Goliath lived long after the flood too.
     
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  4. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl New Member

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    You are right. All the nefilim giants which were the children of the fallen angels died in the flood. The giants that Israel killed where evidence that even after the flood the bad angels again had children on the earth.
     
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  5. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Dan57.

    Sorry, but that's nonsense. You obviously don't read Hebrew. Those "giants" were "ha-n'filiym," "fellers" of trees! They were not related in any sense to the originals EXCEPT perhaps in OCCUPATION! They were LUMBERJACKS! And, just like in our nation's early, tall tales, it helps to be bigger than others when you have such an occupation, like the stories of Paul Bunyan! They were the ROUGHNECKS of the early nation of Isra'el's days! THAT'S ALL! We REALLY need to get rid of this "sons of God are angels" garbage! All it does is to CONFUSE the issue!

    OT:5303 nephiyl (nef-eel'); or nephil (nef-eel'); from OT:5307; properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:
    KJV - giant.

    OT:5307 naaphal (naw-fal'); a primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):
    KJV - be accepted, cast (downself,, [lots], out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell (-ing), fugitive, have [inheritance], inferior, be judged [by mistake for OT:6419], lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present (-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, surely, throw down.

    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
     
  6. Dan57

    Dan57 Active Member

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    "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span" (1 Samuel 17:4). Converted into more modern measurements, using an 18" cubit, this puts Goliath's height at 9' 6", and if using a 21" cubit, just over 11' tall. Goliath a warrior, not a lumberjack, so unless the biblical measurements are wrong, the nephilim were literally giant humans.
     
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  7. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    Hi alll,

    Who would have ever thought to do a GOOGLE search on giant skeletons? Certainly not me, -- until reading this Topic. I'm surprised as to some of the historical evidence and claims, and it's not in our history, geology, or physiology books. What a SURPRISE.


    With Best Regards,
    DD
     
  8. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl New Member

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    The giants where all over the earth.
     
  9. Floyd

    Floyd Active Member

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    Nephilim, who were they, and why. ?




    Discussions are conducted occasionally, however quite infrequently, on the subject of Nephilim. Usually the subject is raised by a new Christian (Christ-One), after coming across the subject of giants in Scripture, and seeing the references in Genesis 6:2-4, and also others in the Old Testament, (OT). In Gen. 15 Abram is told by Almighty God the lands He will give to him and his seed. Some or all of the people named in verses 18 to 21 are considered Nephilim and had to be displaced by Israel at a later date, when they took possession of those lands under the leadership of Joshua.





    To treat the subject seriously, three main questions need to be addressed.

    1) Who were they?

    2) How and why were they produced?

    3) Are they still on earth?



    Who were/are they?



    In the earliest reference to them, and using only Christ Authenticated Scripture, in Gen. 6:2, “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them women of all that they chose”.

    The statement, “sons of God”, has been, and is much discussed, as to meaning. As on occasions the term “angels” are interchangeable with “sons”, and the original Hebrew can be either word, according to context. In the case of Gen. 6:2, the Septuagint translates “angels”, (the PshittA translates "sons of God" looked on the "daughters of human beings"). This implies that the "sons of God" were not human!

    In the case of Adam, he is described as “a son of God”, (Luke 3:38), so by implication all angels are created beings.

    This means that either in the form of angels, or other form, they took human women, and had children by them! The implications of this, is that they could procreate at will, and did so! The fact of their free will, is borne out by the accounts in Revelation, showing that one third of all angels follow Satan (Rev. 12:4)!

    Resulting from those relationships, the creatures that were born, (Gen. 6:4) were called “Nephilim”. The KJV translates to the word “Giant”, but the Hebrew is “nephiyl”, which is from the root “naphal”, which means “to fall”! This means that the Angelic act of procreation, was in their case a fallen act, as they were using their free will outside the scope given to them by God.



    As they mated with human women, they clearly were human sized; however their offspring were large in size, both male, female and children, and called Nephilim, which has been confirmed archaeologically.



    So, the “sons of God”, (angels), had progeny by human women, which were fallen creatures. Fallen from what, is the main question? Jude 6 states; “And the angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day”.

    So, by their own free will, they left their own habitation! There are of course many interesting points and material for discussion in this statement from the Word of God, but sufficient for the subject in hand to say that what they did, was not within the Will of Almighty God, and that they had the freedom to decide, and that they had a sphere of activity, and dwelling, which was their own.



    The Nephilim were of great size, according to much evidence, between 9ft. to 15 even over 30ft. tall, of great strength and prowess of all sorts, which would have been daunting to ordinary humans. The tombs of the Marduk kings of Babylon were approx.14 ft. in length, which together with other evidences from Scripture, such as Goliath, shows the size and physical power of these creatures. It has been speculated that the Greek Mythology writings, were probably originated from their existence.



    It has also been speculated that they may still exist in smaller size. The reason for this idea, is that both King Saul and David, did not eliminate them completely, as they had been ordered to do, by Almighty God!

    The order from God to eliminate Nephilim, has been misunderstood by many Bible Scholars, and Christians.

    When the order was given, it was understood by the great men of God, what was at stake, and who they were to kill! In today’s world, even though men kill many more than the Biblical slaughter of Nephilim, men hold up their hands in horror at the Just request of Almighty God, and use the Biblical account as reason to criticise God, and to ridicule Christ-Ones, (Christians).



    The land promised by God to the Jews, was populated by various tribes. The Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaims, Amorites, Girgashites, and Jebushites. These were all “Canaanites”, and had spread from Babylon into Canaan and elsewhere, possibly after the Babylonian Priesthood removed to Anatolia (Pergamum).

    They were known collectively variously as; Anakim, Rephaim, Emim, Horim, Zamzummim, and Avim. They had infiltrated the local tribes with their seed, and also their abominable pagan practices, and sexual perversions. These were invariably practiced in their “high places”, and “groves”, which are the euphemisms used by the translators. It is interesting to note that sexual perversion of all kinds, specifically forbidden by Almighty God, were used in the takeover of the local tribes, and also latterly, the corruption of Israel, (see Ezk. 20-25).

    The question as to whether they still exist on a smaller physical scale, is undetermined, but there are vague clues to that possibility. It is a fact that the populations of the world “downsize” to an average over time, but the more important question is why they existed/exist? The last verse of Zechariah, 14:22, speaks rather strongly in this context, “and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of Hosts”! (Note the statement is “house”, not land!)

    As this statement is made in the context of the yet future glorious Millennial Kingdom, it may speak the answer to the last question!



    Why were they produced?



    This is the most interesting point, from the aspect of understanding Scripture, and the plan of Almighty God.

    After the successful temptation of Eve (Adam), at Eden, Sin entered the scene/World. See: Eve and Adam (Separate study)

    From that point onwards, all mankind was/is subject to the death of the flesh, the First death.

    It is implicit in Genesis, that there has been previous creation/s. We are given no detail on these, but recent worldwide discoveries tend to back up this idea. See: Old relics ignored by science: ( By Dr.J.R.Jochmans, Litt.D.)





    It is clear from Scripture, that God Almighty has only the objective of relating to a people, His own Creation, in Love, the like of which is almost impossible for us to understand!

    It is also clear from The Word, that God is opposed in this Plan, by one of His own creation, Satan, who, is the most magnificent of all God’s creatures; and states in Scripture, that “he would be as God”!

    In the drama that unfolds from Eden, the contest, for such it is, sees Satan constantly trying to gain advantage over what he perceives as the Plan of God to salvage a group of human beings, for fellowship and relationship, both short term and more importantly, long term, in Eternity!

    Most of the world’s peoples are aware of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the various teachings relating to that event. But, very few are aware of the background leading up to that momentous occasion!



    Satan’s apparent success in Eden, at the very beginning of this Creation. See: Age of the Earth Controversy: (Separate study) seems to set the scene for the downfall, irretrievably, of mankind.

    However, as soon as the fall has taken place, God states a solution to the failure of humans under temptation by Satan, and therefore their sin nature, and sinning!

    In Gen. 3:15, God declares that Satan’s actions with Adam and Eve were to have consequences. “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel”. (It is important to note that the Promise is via the “seed of the woman”, not the seed of the man!)

    The seed of the woman is here prophesied to deal a deadly blow to the aspirations of Satan! This “seed” is none other than Jesus The Christ, who is the seed of Mary, and by the Holy Ghost. His Birth, Death, and Resurrection, were at that stage yet to be revealed in more detail.

    Satan at this stage planned to prevent the “Seed of the woman”, all the way from Eve to Mary the mother of Jesus, from coming to fruition.

    At the stage of the prophecy Satan only knew of “The Seed”, so he decided to try to corrupt all seed from Eve onwards, via the use of “fallen angels”, who were/are at his bidding, and the result was Nephilim!

    So successful was Satan's strategy, that God states in Gen. 6:9, that only Noah and his family were free from Satan’s corruption of the Adamic seed! The word translated “perfect” in the AV, should be translated “without blemish”, (as to breed or pedigree). The Hebrew word used is tamim.

    The well known flood account, was the follow through, which killed all the Nephilim infiltrated humans.

    When it became known that the “Seed” was to be through the line of Abraham, a further eruption of Nephilim took place (Gen. 6:4). The object of Satan on this occasion was to populate Canaan ahead of the “children of Israel”, (Gen.12:6), and so to contest for the “Promised Land”, and if possible again corrupt the “Seed line”, and also divert the Israelites from adherence to the One True God, Jehovah.

    In Gen. 21:12, Jehovah (God in covenant relationship with Israel), makes known that His promise and Seed will be through Isaac. In that knowledge, Satan immediately endangers Isaac’s life, but the “faith” of Abraham, is established in his trust of God!

    The following is a list of the attempts of Satan after that, to destroy the seed of the chosen family, Jacob:

    By famine, Gen. 50:20.

    The destruction of the male line in Israel, Ex. 1:10,15. Ex. 2:5, Hebrews 11:23.

    The destruction of the whole nation, in Pharaoh’s pursuit, Ex.14.

    When it was known that David’s line was to be the line of Messiah, (2 Sam.7), Satan attacked the Dynasty repeatedly, without success!



    There are many more examples of the Satanic attacks on the Royal Line, all the way up to Mary the mother of Jesus, and her newborn, but as shown in the Gospels, they were thwarted, so that her Child, Jesus the Christ, could fulfil His mission, and go to the Cross of Calvary.

    Jesus, (Jehoshua) as he was to be called, by order of the angel to Mary, means; “The Salvation of Jehovah”, or “Jehovah the Saviour”.

    Mary, as is well known, did not conceive Jesus by her husband Joseph, but by the Holy Spirit of God Himself, (Matt.1:18, 23).

    We see now the fruition of the preservation of the “Seed of the woman”, as promised in Gen. 3:15!

    We know that “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life” Jn. 3:16.



    So, the preserved Seed of Eve, by the dint of the Love of Almighty God’s action of Self Sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary, has become the “Way of Salvation”, for all who will receive it, as a Gift, not for the “worthy”, as none are worthy, but by “The Grace of Almighty God”!



    Nephilim in the Future?



    It is conjectured by some commentators, that the effort of Satan via Nephilim is not yet finished, and that attempts to annihilate Israel will be made prior to, and at the end of Millennial by the use of Nephilim. This speculation is referred to by Charles Welch in his book ‘This Prophecy’; in particular referring to Rev. 20:7-8 which describes Satan’s release from bondage, and his new deception of the nations “Gog and Magog”!



    He also refers to Deut. 3:1-13, which showed Og king of Bashan, king also of his own brood of giants (Deut. 3:13), as being used by Satan to try to stop the fledgling nation of Israel.

    Mr. Welch shows that at each critical period of the formation and/or continuation of the Jewish Nation, Satan’s people (whether Nephilim or not) are prominent in the attempts to thwart Israel.

    Restored and converted Israel in Millennial are singing to God in Isa. 26, and they refer to Nephilim:

    In Isa. 26:14, “They are dead, they shall not live; they are *Rephaim (Nephilim), they shall not rise:

    *This is the corrected translation of the A.V., which uses the word “deceased”, instead of Rephaim!

    This again links Rephaim to Gog and Megog!



    He refers also to Numbers 24:7, where Balaam refers to Israel’s ascendency in the Millennium, “And his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted”. Mr. Welch makes the point here that the Samaritan Text reads “Agog” instead of Agag, and that the Septuagint gives “Gog”. Dr. Bullinger makes the same points. On the assumption that these verses do indeed refer to the future, of which there seems little doubt, then serious consideration must be given to the inclusion of Nephilim in the end Age events at end of Millennial.



    If the Nephilim survive, or are reintroduced by Satan at that time in the mode of Gen. 6, then their purpose can only be to destroy Israel, which has been the purpose of Satan since their inception by God /Abram. Satan’s failure to thwart the birth of Jesus, leaves him with only one option; the annihilation of Israel, See: Satan's Motivation: (Separate study)



    As Gog and Magog are prominent in plain Bible quote, particularly in Ezk. 38 and 39, before the Millennial and at its end, there is clearly a meaning for their prominence. Dr. Bullinger gives lucid comment in Ezk. 38 etc., and a brief but lucid description of Nephilim in Appendix 25 of the Companion Bible.



    If the Nephilim theory is correct in the future as in the past; then the statement in Zech. 14:21, “there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of Hosts”, may have special significance! As Nephilim collectively were known as “Canaanites”, that verse implies that they may have at some stage infiltrated the Priesthood of Israel, and also corrupted the original “Biblical Torah”! (See: Changes Made To The Old Testament (Separate study). This comment certainly seems confirmed by Jesus when addressing the Pharisees in Jn. 8:44, where He states “you are of your father the devil”!

    This could have been pre. or post the Babylonian Captivity, as the children of Israel did mix with the surrounding nations, and under Ezra they had to try to cleanse their bloodline.



    This then would show more of the scope of our Lord’s cleansing work, because as He had created the solution to the “fall” of Adam at the cross of Calvary; He also will deal with all Gog and Magog via. Michael and his angels at the end of Millennial, and then hand the “finished work” to God the Father, as a major part of the dealing with the “mystery of iniquity” (2Thess. 2:7).
     
  10. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Eric.

    And, you should also know that all of those photos were hoaxes! The "giants" were not necessarily "all over the earth." They were where they would do the most good as lumberjacks. Sheesh! Give me a break!
     
  11. Floyd

    Floyd Active Member

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    Nephilim





    The Nephilim were of large stature, 13' or more tall, and the tomb size is shown in Deut. 3:11, and testified in Deut. 3:13, "the land of the giants". The certain fact that they had spread from Babylon is shown by the tombs of the Marduk kings in Babylon, which were of the same size as Deut. 3:11. It's an interesting fact that large skeletal remains have been discovered on almost every Continent, including recently Australia. It is theorised that the existence and spread of the Nephilim was during the time prior to "Continental Drift", and that the "Drift" when it happened, was much quicker than previously thought.



    Babylon as is well known was founded by Nimrod, whose father was Cush and Grandfather Ham! Nimrod was "great in rebellion against God" Gen. 10:9, (the standard translation in the AV is that he was a mighty hunter "before the Lord", but on examination of the word "before", and its use in Gen. 6:11, this is almost certainly the wrong translation. When considering the record of Nimrod and his mother, and also remembering their role in Babylon and the tower of Babel, the favourable AV translation does not fit the context of his life.) Babylon became the fountainhead of Satanic opposition to Jehovah God, until its destruction, and the removal of its priests to Pergamos (Anatolia; modern day Turkey).

    Caanan was the son of Ham and uncle to Nimrod [Gen. 10:6], and his purpose was to thwart the Messiah line from Genesis (Gen. 3:15).



    It was inevitable that the Nephilim/giants would resist the children of Israel (Jacob), when they started their conquest of "the Promised land", as they were part of the plan of Satan to resist the curse imposed upon him of Gen. 3:15. By that time the Nephilim had blended into other tribes and peoples in the "Promised Land" and a thorough mix had been established. For that reason Jehovah forbad Israel any inter-marriage with the Canaanite tribes, as the line of the Messiah had to be pure from Adam, through Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah; through to Mary, Josephs' wife (Luke 23:38); so that the "seed of the woman" would be as prophecy (Gen. 3:15). The birth of Jesus was of the pure line of Judah, and all the prophecies in the Old Testament regarding His place of Birth, and His suffering and death were fulfilled. His Resurrection and Ascension, auger the fulfilment of the prophecies yet to be completed, which many people think will be soon!



    Nephilim are the fruit of "the sons of God", or fallen angels (Gen. 6:4) (Rev. 12:4 & 9) which have mated with "the daughters of men", (Gen. 6:2), and had they succeeded in spreading their seed totally in men/Israel, the promise of Messiah (Gen. 3:15) could not have happened, and Satan would have had the victory.

    There is much debate and varied opinion, as to whether the resultant Nephilim/giants are of "sons of God", or fallen angels. The Interlinear Hebrew uses the word "God" in the delegated sense [Strongs 430], which should be spelt with a small g (god), which can mean an "authority" lower than Elohim [God], which brings in to play; angel, created being, magistrate etc. However, if Strongs is correct it means plural gods, and that would argue for "angels", and as Scripture says in Jude 6 and Rev. 12:4, many angels have fallen, which is stated as "leaving their first estate"; and they are "reserved to Judgement", (2Peter 2:4).

    It is interesting to note that the PshittA translates (Gen. 6:2), "the sons of God looked upon the daughters of human beings", which implies that they were not human and gives credence to the "angel" argument.

    It is argued by some including Schofield that the Gen. 6:2 reference is not to angels but to the line of Cain, however, Gen. 4:1 states clearly that Cain was the son of Adam and Eve, and that he was "from the Lord"! Schofield uses the reference in Isa. 43:6 to justify that thought, but Isa. 43:6 in context refers to redeemed Israel. A further argument is used that angels are spoken of as "sexless", and Matt. 22:30 is used as justification. That reference however, is to the "angels of God" that have not left their first estate, and not followed Satan as per Revelation (12:4).

    The fallen angels had in this concept taken their male status (all angels are referred to as male) to earthly realm and procreated, which was within their freewill, as is also their freewill to follow Satan and give him their allegiance. There is no mention in the whole of Scripture of female angels, and the reason for that is solely in the domain of Almighty God.

    There is only One Creator God, (see Strongs 410 and 433!). The Interlinear Hebrew for "the son" (Strongs 1121) (BEN) is the word "family builder", which implies just that possibility in these "sons of God", if they had not been resisted on the orders of Almighty God to Saul, David, and Joshua etc.

    The evidence of many Scripture passages using the word for "sons" or "angels", such as Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, Psm. 89:6 & Dan. 3:25, points to the conclusion that the two expressions can mean the same thing.



    However, the result is evil. Therefore is not of the will of Almighty God, but does show the fact of the free will of the created beings, whether called "sons" or "angels". We know from Revelation (Rev. 12:4) that one third of all angels follow Satan, and have been converted to him. These are in the future description of the events relating to the last Satanic turmoil on earth prior to the Second Advent of Christ. The "angels" which perpetrated the resultant Nephilim, are probably those described in 1Peter 3:19-20, and Jude 6, and those of an earlier rebellion, prior to this present Creation, (some people surmise that demonic activity on earth are the result of that earlier rebellion, however, that is speculation. The fact is that demonic spirits and activity are evident on earth, as is shown in Our Lord's dealing with them and also His disciples and the apostle Paul. However, nobody is sure as to their origin).

    The fallen angels were not led by the Holy Spirit in their act of procreation but by the spirit of the Enemy of God, Satan, (indicating the fact of their free will). That is in contrast to Rom. 8:14, which confirms that those led by the Holy Spirit ("Spirit of God"), are "the sons of God"; so that God in Christ has created a pathway contrary to that of the fallen sons of Gen. 6; which allows fallen human beings to become "sons of God", (Jn. 1:12) (Rom. 8:4 & 19) (Phil. 2:15) (1Jn. 3:1 & 2), by their own will, in the acceptance of Christ, as Saviour.



    Genesis 6:4 shows clearly that after the flood destroyed all the Nephilim infiltrated humans, leaving Noah and his family only (Gen. 6:9); there was at a later date a further eruption of Nephilim "and also after the flood" (Gen. 6:4). These are described in detail in Num. 13:33, and in the book of Joshua. It is notable that on a number of occasions the Divinely ordered task of annihilating the Nephilim was not completed ie. Joshua 11:22, 13:13, 16:10, 17:12 and elsewhere. That the task was probably/possibly never completed is implicit in the renewed warning to Israel regarding the forbidding of intermarriage with the local tribes (Josh. 23).



    It is almost certain that both Saul and King David also did not eradicate Nephilim, as both failed to obey the commands of Jehovah, although David's heart was directed correctly, as Scripture records he slew Goliath (a Nephilim), which is probably symbolic and prophetic regarding "The Son of David's" action when He (Christ) returns to Earth. Whether or not physical Nephilim survive until this day in smaller form is unknown, and impossible to determine. However, when we recognise that the Nephilim purpose was to thwart Jehovah's plan of Salvation for Israel and the world, the fact that "great David's greater Son" "the second Adam", Christ, has appeared, died the death of the cross (Gal. 3:13), and risen, shows the utter failure of Satan's plan in the physical Nephilim. We know now that in this Age (of Grace), the battle is spiritual (Eph. 6:12). Those who truly wish to embrace God and Redemption can only do so through Christ (Acts 4:12), and that through faith only (Gal. 2:20) (Gal. 3). The Nephilim were/are the Satanically inspired fruit of fallen beings, attempting to thwart the physical birth of Christ/Messiah.



    It should be stated here again that the promise of Redemption in Gen. 3:15 could not have been fulfilled in Christ Jesus, if the Nephilim had succeeded in spreading their seed throughout the Jewish Nation. "The seed of the woman" of Gen. 3:15 had to be pure through to the Virgin Mary, so that the "Holy Ghost" could "overshadow her" and that "Holy Thing" called the "Son of God" would be born Luke 1:35. The child Jesus was destined to be the Propitiation of all the Sin of mankind that believe, after His death on the Cross at Calvary. He also being Immanuel (Matt. 1:23, God with us), and the Messiah of Israel, whom at present they have rejected.



    The current attempt of Satan is twofold,

    1) to thwart the spiritual birth of the Body of Christ (Christians true), which Body must be complete prior to the Lord's return, (and during Israel's lo-ammi state); which confirms that now is a spiritual warfare, see Ephesians.

    2) To thwart the promises of Jehovah Zebaoth to Israel. To that end spiritual forces are arrayed against mankind (Eph. 6:12) (particularly Gentiles since Acts 28:28, when the Gospel was sent to the Gentiles). These Satanic forces are the equivalent of the physical Nephilim, and at least as deadly.



    The Nephilim were/are a mixture of human flesh and Satanic spirit, the influence of Satan's spirits, are described in the Gospels and other parts of the New Testament (Matt. 10:1, Mk. 1:27, Mk. 3:11, 5:13, 6:7, Lk. 4:36, Acts 5:16, 8:7, Rev. 16:13). It is a sad fact that people have high regard for wizards, mediums etc. (Acts 8:11, and Acts 8:9-24), but as the Holy Spirit shows in Acts 8:18-24, there is only one way of escape for such people. Therefore, it is incumbent on Christians to be wary of all humans, to attempt to determine their condition, as many are undoubtedly in disguise as innocuous, or are Enemy infiltrators in positions of power both in the world, and churches (groups) (Christendom).



    The last verse of the book of Zechariah (14:21) is conclusive, "there shall be no more Canaanite in the house of Jehovah Zebaoth". Also, in Zech. 13:2 idols, prophets and unclean spirits are banished (presumably to the same abyss as Satan). This takes place after the return of Christ/Jehovah, and as the Millennial Kingdom is established.

    It is considered (Ency. Brit. N. p. 232) that Christ the "Nazarene" is also under a Nazarene/Nazarite vow, yet to be completed when the Canaanite is eliminated. The Holy Spirit through John is lucid on the anti-christ, and particularly 1Jn. 2:18-28, see also (2Thess. 2:3-12) (1Jn. 4:2-3) (1Jn. 4:6) (1Jn. 5:19) (2Jn. 7), where "the last time" (i.e. this last Age time) is described in detail. In both 1 and 2 John, the conditions described are recognizable now by true Christians. The spirit of anti-christ is in every part of human life, and its profanity is evident continually around us, in all media, communications and contact, and unfortunately in false Christian teaching worldwide, that denies Acts 4:12 (Salvation is found in non other than Christ Jesus).
     
  12. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Floyd.

    Nonsense. So, Adam, being a "son of God," was an angel, huh? What are you, a Mormon? Ridiculous. The phrase "sons of God" is NEVER talking about angels. Furthermore, there are many instances when the Hebrew word "mal`ak" and the Greek word "aggelos" do not refer to "a supernatural being" but rather to a HUMAN "messenger!" You cannot show me ONE place in the Scriptures where the phrase "sons of God" refers to angels! And, don't think you can turn to Job to do it! Many who want to support this cockamamie theory ASSUME things about the book of Job that they do NOT have the authority to assume! For instance, it is often assumed that haSatan had to go to "Heaven" to present himself to God among the "sons of God," but I submit to you that all he had to do was go to the Altar to present himself among the HUMAN sons of God, the righteous who sacrificed to Adonai YHWH. NOWHERE in the book of Job does it say that he went to "Heaven," as though God is only to be found there!

    Also, your reference to "Christ's Authenticated Scripture" sounds like you are saying that the only correct version is the KJV. If this is indeed what you are saying, then you need to know that this version should be neither called just the "King James Version" nor just the "Authorized Version." It should be called the "King James Authorized Version" as it was the only version of the Bible that was commissioned and authorized by the Supreme Governor of the Anglican Church, King James I, published in 1611 A.D., to be used in the pulpits of the English churches! You would do well to study that period of history, for many of the believers of that time refused to use the KJV, opting for the Geneva Bible instead!

    If you believe that "angels" are interchangeable with "sons" in the "original Hebrew," I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you! The word "mal`ak" is not at ALL like the word "ben!" They are NOT "interchangeable" nor are they treated the same way! Where'd you get THAT malarkey?! (Well, it is St. Patrick's Day.)

    You need to quit propagating this fabrication. It does no one any good. It's just a fanciful theory to explain the obscure (to Westerners) passage of Genesis 6:1-8.

    You pointed out that the word "nfiyl" is from the root word "naafal," but you failed to say what "nfiyl" means! Yes, it was translated as "giant," but it means "a feller" (of trees), using the Strong's definition. James Strong was a theologian of the 19th century and as such had a different set of common English words. We would use the term "lumberjack" today instead of "feller." Of course, the term could also be applied to mean "a feller" (of men), in which case, the term can also mean "a bully" or "a tyrant." And, naturally, it would be helpful to be an actual "giant" to be either!

    And, NOTHING has been "confirmed archaeologically!" Are you meshuggah?! Take the pictures that you see on various websites with a grain of salt! They have ALL been debunked fabrications! It's amazing what someone can do with Photoshop! DON'T be deluded by the pictures! THEY ARE NOT REAL!!!

    There's a better, simpler explanation for Genesis 6:1-8, namely, Genesis 4:1-26.

    Genesis 4:1-26
    1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
    2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.


    3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
    5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
    6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
    7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


    8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
    9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
    10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
    13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
    14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
    15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
    16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod (Hebrew: Nowd = "Wandering"), on the east of Eden.
    17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch (Hebrew: Chanokh = "a Narrow").
    18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
    19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
    20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
    21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
    22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
    23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
    24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
    25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth (Hebrew: "Sheet," pronounced "shate" = "placed; substituted"): For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
    26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord (Hebrew: "Aaz huwchal liqro' bsheem YHWH" = "At-that-time he-began to-name in-name of-YHWH").
    KJV


    Qayin was cursed from the "(sur)face of the earth!" Here's his complaint in Hebrew (transliterated):

    Gaadowl `avoniy minso’!
    Greater my-punishment than-I-can-lift/take!

    Heen, geerashtaa otiy hayowm mee`al pneey haa’adaamaah,
    Look, you-have-driven-out me this-day from-above (the-sur)face of-the-ground,

    uwmipaaneykhaa ecaateer!
    and-from-your-face I-shall-be-hidden! (BANISHED!)
    
Vhaayiytiy naa` vaanaad baa’aarets!
    And-I-shall-be indecisive and-a-wanderer in-the-earth! (LOST!)

    Vhaayaah kaal mots’iy yahargeeniy:
    And-it-will-happen everyone (anyone) who-meets-me shall-kill-me! (HUNTED!)

    That's why God put a mark on Qayin (Cain) so that anyone who found him would NOT kill him! He was sent out to wander in the caves and caverns UNDERGROUND!

    With only a sister as his wife to keep him company, he went away and foraged for food. (He could no longer farm.) After the birth of his son, Chanowkh, which means "a narrow (place)," probably describing where Chanowkh was born, he built a city where his family and he could live. He named the city after his son, "Chanowkh." There, he had children (Chanowkh), grandchildren (`Iyraad), great grandchildren (Mchuwyyaa'eel), great great grandchildren (Mtuwshaa'eel) and great great great grandchildren (Laamekh)! After Laamekh, his great great great great grandchildren (Yowval, Yuwval, Tuval-Qayin, and Na`amaah) probably were the first to emerge from Chanokh. Remember, too, that these were long-lived individuals, averaging more than 900 years old at death (according to the record in Genesis 5 and 9)! Indeed, Jewish tradition (the Oral Torah) says that Na`amaah was Noach's wife! That is why she was named (Gen. 4:22).

    So, for a long time, probably better than a thousand years, the two families were separated. The children of Sheet (Seth) were living above ground, while the children of Qayin (Cain) were living below ground. What usually happens when two groups of people having different skin color and different mannerisms, who have been separated for a long time, finally come together? PREJUDICE, HATE CRIMES, and SLAVERY happens! The surface dwellers called THEMSELVES "sons of God," being allowed to live "under the face of God" while the ones who had lived underground were called merely "sons (and daughters) of men!" They are terms of prejudice!
     
  13. Jun2u

    Jun2u Well-Known Member

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    There are many in this forum and threads who are so eloquent as to be able to put into words their thoughts on paper, and I’m almost ashamed to post for lack of education. But it gives me real comfort and encouragement that God entrusted to the Apostles ( which some Apostles were unlearned), the care of the True Gospel .

    Genesis 6:2-4

    2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
    4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    If the “sons of God” are angels as many think they are, then it is impossible for them to marry the daughters of men since God created every living thing after its’ kind (Gen. 1:23-26). In other words, an Elephant cannot marry a Rabbit nor a Giraffe to a Squirrel etc…,

    “Daughters of men” are a picture or type of “unbelievers” besides, angels are SPIRIT BEINGS, and THEY DO NOT MARRY!

    For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven (Mt 22:30).

    Definition of “sons of God:”

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    (Joh 1:12-13

    For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    (Ro 8:14)

    Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (made into God’s image)
    (Joh 10:34)

    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Ps 82:6)

    Gen. 6:2-4 I believe is teaching the fundamental principle that the believers are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
    (2Cor.6:14)

    Mighty men who were they?

    And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
    He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
    (Ge. 10:8-9)

    And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth. Cush's descendants must have been the mighty men of renown.
    1Ch 1:10

    Today, the mighty men of renown are the sport figures, celebrities and the like.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  14. Floyd

    Floyd Active Member

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    Hello Retrobyter.
    No, I am not a Mormon!
    Thank you for your scholarly input and opinion.
    The "angel" comment is only a semantic, and is not conclusive (as you imply).
    Your opinion re. "Nephilim" is noted, thanks.
    Your comment re. Cain were are not disputed.
    Re. your comment on KJV of the Bible, you are wrong, many versions are used.
    Re. your comments on Gen.6; we clearly disagree.
    Floyd.
     
  15. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Dan57.

    Yes, Golyat (Goliath), as one of the sons of `Aanaaq (Anak) was the grandson of Arba`, and was genetically inclined to be a raafaa' (a giant) and COULD have been a nfiyl (a lumberjack) like his father was. However, he was needed in the military of the Plishtiym (Philistines, today pronounced "Palestinians"), being from one of their principle towns, Gat (Gath). By the way, the modern Hebrew word for "giant" is "`aanaaq!"

    All of that, however, does NOT require that they be demon-spawned! ONLY in the fictitious imagination does one come to that conclusion! It CERTAINLY does not come from the text, particularly in Hebrew!
     
  16. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    Where are the giant bones?

    There is a problem with modern academia that does not allow the publication, support or exploration of that which is viewed as an aberrant theory. We have entered a new dark age where theories are accepted as fact and hard evidence is suppressed.

    Case in point is Darwinian evolution. As of this writing there are at least three different evolutionary theories and disciplines each proving the other two wrong. There's no hard evidence for any of them, but that doesn't seem to stop the propagation of the myth. In point of fact, Darwin was a racist, an early version of European racial supremacy (quotations available upon request). It doesn't seem to stop or even slow down the propagation of this racial lie, but it is accepted.

    Intelligent design has been completely dismissed as an illegitimate fantasy without so much as a passing review of the logic and evidence behind the argument. The whole thing agrees with the Bible, which is probably why its been ignored.

    And so on and so forth. If the bones of giant men were indeed discovered, does the reader really think such supporting evidence of Biblical inerrancy would be widely published in magazines, in the media and in text books? (Text book authors are even busy changing the chemical periodic table these days. How can you change hard science? It's being done nonetheless. Ask any college professor who teaches chemistry.)

    Welcome to the new age of lies, scoffing and flummery.

    It isn't just skeletons of giant men, either. What about dragons? Such beasts actually existed at one time - fire breath and all. Read the book of Job chapter 41. There indeed is a mysterious chapter if ever I read one. There is no more detailed description of the beast anywhere in legitimate literature. Job describes two different species - a water beast and a land beast complete with legs, scales and fire spewing out of its mouth. Job states that this beast cannot be defeated by the hand of man (Leviathan is not the same as a whale.). Is it strange then that the dragon, a beast that God alone could kill, is the foremost figurative representation of satan - a creature which also cannot be defeated by man? ok so where are the dragon skeletons?

    If they had been discovered would they not be either ignored or assumed to be some ancient dinosaur? For example, the Loch Ness monster and the Lake Champlain monster in upstate New York (affectionately called Champy by residents there) more closely resemble the Biblical description of Leviathan than whales. Yet despite sightings by respected sane and sober individuals the scientific community blowes the whole thing off.

    Where are the bones of giant men? Probably in the dirt where they've always been. The problem is that modern academia doesn't want to see it whether its there or not.

    and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
  17. Floyd

    Floyd Active Member

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    From rjp:

    Where are the giant bones?

    There is a problem with modern academia that does not allow the publication, support or exploration of that which is viewed as an aberrant theory. We have entered a new dark age where theories are accepted as fact and hard evidence is suppressed.


    From Floyd:
    Old relics ignored by science: ( By Dr.J.R.Jochmans, Litt.D.)

    Floyd.
     
  18. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Floyd.

    Be careful what you read from those who expound conspiracy theories and fantastic claims, especially on the Internet. One CAN find pictures of giant skeletons on the Internet, but they have been shown to be Photoshopped forgeries! And, for all the pictures, why are there no actual bones to be investigated? Please be EXTREMELY careful of your sources.
     
  19. Floyd

    Floyd Active Member

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    Yes Retro. I am aware, thank you; but have been around for a long time, and routinely do checks.
    It is incumbent on all of us to take this care when in any way linked to God's Word; so as not to inadvertently defame the Word.
    In this case of Dr Jochmans work, we checked 20 years ago, and had some verification; but when trying again later, all had disappeared!
    We decided to keep it in our listing because of the comprehensive list of References which people who are truly interested can use.
    This Paper of Jochmans is one of a few we decided to air, to counter the myth of Evolution. You have to admit it is startling reading, and easy to see why certain Authorities in Satan's world would want to suppress it.
    Floyd.
     
  20. 7angels

    7angels Active Member

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    Retrobyter
    you are jewish correct? if so you also know of other books that were written but were not included in the bible. how do you discount books like enoch? if you do disregard enoch then would you not also have to disregard passages in the bible that quote from the book of enoch as being incorrect? if you are not jewish then what are you a hebrew scholar? if you are please post things that you have published to the scholarly world.

    if you are neither a jew or a hebrew scholar then how can you be so sure you are right? everything you posted seems to come from a human reasoning perspective instead of divine revelation. even my spirit tells me that something about your reasoning is flawed because i have no peace in my spirit with what you are referring to above. could it be possible that you are mistaken in your understanding?

    The sons of God saw the daughters of men: Many have believed the sons of God were those from the line of Seth, and the daughters of men were from the line of Cain, and this describes an intermarriage between the godly and the ungodly, something God specifically prohibits (Deuteronomy 7:1-4, 2 Corinthians 6:14).
    i. But this approach leaves many unanswered questions: Why did this make God angry enough to wipe out almost all the earth's population? Why was there something "unnatural" about the offspring of these unions? The text in no way offers answers to these important questions. It is more accurate to see the sons of God as either demons (angels in rebellion against God) or uniquely demon-possessed men, and the daughters of men as human women.

    God bless
     
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