God’s name….

[MatthewG]

Ah to heck with God, and what he wants right...? @Brakelite


Well, This was what Jesus said,

John 17:3 And this is life eternal: that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.


Take and do what you will. Who is the only true God? Who was the "Unknown God" that even the greeks were not forgetful to leave out.


God - has a name. That should be important.

I have a name, I like it to be used when someone is talking or addressing me, etc.

 

[MatthewG]

That seems to be the problem.


People honestly, truly, just don't care. It doesn't matter.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sad that you should come to such a focus. Shouldn't you ought to be remembering that rather than punishment, you would state, Throughout the history of the nation of Israel, likewise the value of obedience was demonstrated in how God responded to their disobedience.…. always with grace and mercy.

God responded to their unrepentant disobedience with suitable punishment…..grace and mercy were only extended when they admitted their errors and repented…..but it never lasted.

 

[Brakelite]

God responded to their unrepentant disobedience with suitable punishment…..grace and mercy were only extended when they admitted their errors and repented…..but it never lasted.

I disagree. God's grace and mercy were God's first reaction. It is grace and mercy that offers repentance in the first place. It is grace and mercy that promises forgiveness. It is grace and mercy that promises a wolf that he can be born again into a lamb. And it is grace and mercy that is often spurned and scoffed at, yet is offered again and again, pleading and sending prophet after prophet until all hope is lost. Punishment and discipline, usually in the form of withdrawal of protections, was always a last resort. "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, for why would ye die O house of Israel?"

 

[Brakelite]

Ah to heck with God, and what he wants right...? @Brakelite


Well, This was what Jesus said,

John 17:3 And this is life eternal: that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.


Take and do what you will. Who is the only true God? Who was the "Unknown God" that even the greeks were not forgetful to leave out.


God - has a name. That should be important.

I have a name, I like it to be used when someone is talking or addressing me, etc.

You don't get it. His glory is His name because His name describes His character. And God, above all else, desires we understand His character, because for 6000 years Satan has maligned and abused and lied about the character of God, and man has believed Satan and misconstrued and misunderstood that above all else, God is love. And it His name that spells that out. There's more to a name than meets the eye. But good on you for being fervent, and zealous in defending God's name and indeed caring.

 

[Wick Stick]

Isn't 450 years long enough for that nation to become populous? Children were seen as a blessing from God, so they had large families.

It's been awhile since I've done the math, but we can do it again. Actually, let's just use Google and a calculator, instead.

During the Bronze Age, the infant mortality rate was about 30%, and a typical annual population growth rate was around 0.027%. So, if Abraham's descendants reproduced at those rates, in 450 years, a population of 70 people would grow to... 79. Welp.


Let's assume they weren't typical. Let's say they were more fertile than average, and experienced lower infant mortality. What sort of growth would they need to turn into a population of 2 million?

A growth rate of 2.31 means that for every 100 people, the population would need to increase by about 23 people per year. Let's assume half are male and half are female. That would mean that 46% of women would need to give birth to a viable child every year.

I went looking for some context... The highest growth rate recorded in history occurred in 1962 - it was 2.1%. The infant mortality rate that year was 2.5%. A normal growth rate for a country with modern medicine is close to 1%.

So, for the Israelites population to expand that quickly, they would need to grow about 85x as fast as the average population for their era, faster than the highest growth rate in recorded history, and they would need infant mortality rates better than the ones we have today... but in the Bronze Age.

That definitely didn't happen. I tried plugging some more numbers into the calculator, and it turns out it's basically impossible that more than 1/8 of the people who came out of Egypt were physical descendants of Jacob. Either the numbers in the Bible are greatly exaggerated, or...

Moses adopted more people into Israel than there were natural sons. I'm going with this option, since the Bible pretty much tells us it happened.

Maths are fun!

 

[Wick Stick]

Archaeology does not always make accurate assumptions.

That's true, but in this case I don't think it applies. When you dig up a bunch of idols and inscriptions of various gods in their homes, cities and burial sites... well, what other assumption would you make? Did someone break into their cities and leave a bunch of idols behind?

 

[Wick Stick]

God - has a name. That should be important.

I have a name, I like it to be used when someone is talking or addressing me, etc.

A counter-argument...

In the book of Jonah, the prophet eventually reaches the city of Ninevah, where he preaches and the people repent. The ruins of the city of Ninevah has been extensively excavated. We know that there was exactly one period in the history (one layer in the excavation) of the city where they practiced monotheism.

But in that period, they didn't worship him under the name YHVH or even EL or ELHM. They worshiped Him under the name NBW. Yet God spared the city and apparently received their worship and conversion.

Perhaps God is not such a stickler for getting His name "right."

 

[MatthewG]

A counter-argument...

In the book of Jonah, the prophet eventually reaches the city of Ninevah, where he preaches and the people repent. The ruins of the city of Ninevah has been extensively excavated. We know that there was exactly one period in the history (one layer in the excavation) of the city where they practiced monotheism.

But in that period, they didn't worship him under the name YHVH or even EL or ELHM. They worshiped Him under the name NBW. Yet God spared the city and apparently received their worship and conversion.

Perhaps God is not such a stickler for getting His name "right."

Just forget God all together. He wouldn't want you to know his name right? Heck with him. I'll just stick to what I naturally know from what traditions and people have told me in the past, cause it's just not important.



It doesn't have anything to do with ... ones salvation or anything. It's just important nod to Yahavah, at least to me cause I don't mind presenting him to people.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, for the Israelites population to expand that quickly, they would need to grow about 85x as fast as the average population for their era, faster than the highest growth rate in recorded history, and they would need infant mortality rates better than the ones we have today... but in the Bronze Age.

Google and statistics hardly determines Bible truth…
God promised Abraham that his descendants would be as ‘numerous as the stars of heaven’. (Gen 15:5-6)

At Gen 17:5 God said to Abraham….
”No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you.“ (NKJV)

God said “many nations”, not just one nation would come from Abraham. Specifically just one tribe of one nation was to produce the Messiah.

You forget that Ishmael was also a son of Abraham, and it was God’s promise that he too would be the father of “a great nation”.

“Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.”. . . . .And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.” (Gen 21:13, 17-18 NKJV)

So it appears as if you leave Jehovah out of your statistics….the Bible has the answers if you know what it says….

Moses adopted more people into Israel than there were natural sons. I'm going with this option, since the Bible pretty much tells us it happened.

Yes, as was mentioned, a “vast mixed company” came out of Egypt with the Israelites and these became part of God’s nation, by choice….like Ruth the Moabite woman who chose to stay with her mother in law Naomi to serve her God, and because of her choice, she became an ancestress of Jesus. Direct lineage to Abraham was what the unfaithful Jews counted on…..mistakenly. (Matt 3:9)

Maths are fun!

If you say so…..but a bit useless in this case.

That's true, but in this case I don't think it applies. When you dig up a bunch of idols and inscriptions of various gods in their homes, cities and burial sites... well, what other assumption would you make? Did someone break into their cities and leave a bunch of idols behind?

Reading through Israel’s history, (if you have) it’s a wonder that God didn’t exterminate them as he wanted to many times, for this very reason.
Straight after their miraculous deliverance from Egypt the Israelites fell to idolatry….

”And the Lord said to Moses, “Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’ ” And the Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiff-necked people! Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation.” (Exodus 32:7-10 NKJV)

Idolatry was never far away, depending upon the king that was ruling over them….when a wicked king ruled he took the whole nation down with him….good kings restored pure worship, but never for long…which is why Isaiah prophesied….as Paul quoted him…
Rom 9:27….
”Moreover, Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Although the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.”

God kept this “stiff necked people” in existence until his purpose to produce the Messiah was fulfilled. He even gave them first opportunity to become Christ’s disciples, but when it was clear that this nation would produce only a “remnant“ of faithful ones, God turned to the nations to take out of them “a people for his name”. (Acts 15:14)

God’s name was always associated with his “people”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

A counter-argument...

In the book of Jonah, the prophet eventually reaches the city of Ninevah, where he preaches and the people repent. The ruins of the city of Ninevah has been extensively excavated. We know that there was exactly one period in the history (one layer in the excavation) of the city where they practiced monotheism.

To note…the Ninevites were not Israelites.…but they had come to God’s attention because of their wonton bloodshed and wickedness….and yes, the whole city repented because of Jonah’s preaching, but it didn’t last…eventually the city went back to its wicked ways and it was later destroyed.

The prophecies of Nahum and Zephaniah were fulfilled when the combined forces of Nabopolassar the king of Babylon, and of Cyaxares the Mede besieged and captured Nineveh. The city was evidently subjected to burning, for many Assyrian reliefs show damage or stain from fire and accompanying smoke. The Babylonian Chronicle on Nineveh’s destruction reports: “They carried off the vast booty of the city and the temple (and) [turned] the city into a ruin heap.” (Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, by A. Grayson, 1975, Vol. 1, p. 958)
To this day Nineveh is a desolate waste.

But in that period, they didn't worship him under the name YHVH or even EL or ELHM. They worshiped Him under the name NBW. Yet God spared the city and apparently received their worship and conversion.

It was a story with many lessons for both Jonah and the people of Nineveh….looking back, the lessons are equally for us and the blood thirsty world we live in.
A similar warning and accounting are due for our day.

Perhaps God is not such a stickler for getting His name "right."

As the inventor of language, God knows his name in all languages, and what is in the heart of a person who respects it, and cherishes the one who alone possesses it. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I am ! is, That I am ?

Jesus is Salvation !

Christ is Lord !

Emmanuel is, God with us !

Them's is the main Names. but others as well, but they are not direct as above. the others one could get lost in regards the main.

So I am is in regard That that is ? The subject of !

Regards a Name ? Jesus = Saviour ! Christ = your Lordship, fellowship, The Body of ! is Salvation ! and this has to do with Emmanuel = God that is with us ! so in that such is dipicting a fellowship !

The Fellowship is with God ! through Salvation that is your Christ ! that is the only way to being in line with The Father.

Emmanuel is That that is for us ! Given ! a Gift ! for you ! and it's Salvation !
One has to understand that such is our Christ ! it's called Lordship Salvation ! = Abiding in the Holy Spirit !

Some think it's Winning ? No ! Christ Jesus Won it for you ! and you just abide in him ! or you are trying to be claiming to be a god ? like you Won ?

We Won nothing !

Who showed us The Way ? the Path !

Who tryes to lead you off that Path ? even The born again have to keep on their toes 24/7 in fact ! If one thinks not you are not abiding, thinking you have won your Salvation ? you never Won nothing ! you abide knowing Christ Jesus did such for you. Now comes the Body and He is The Head their of !
What does the Body do ? it abides in the Head.

Now we come to the game that is played regarding Salvation ? you can loose your Salvation ? well if you can loose it, you never had it in the first place in fact !

Or another stupid carnal Game is Played by cunning Devils, Is, Oh you did not confess a Sin !
How cunning a intent, just typical from a Devil !
Jesus knows you better than that, he knows your heart is in the right place regardless if you are His in fact !
The Satanist is playing on Carnal grounds. Or it's all about your Sins ?
Jesus forgave you of all of your Sins or Sin ? what a load of nonsense !
You must know what your Sin was, so as to understand the gravity of such and that's how you learn and learn to deal with such when Sin is at your Door !

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am ! is, That I am ?

Jesus is Salvation !

Actually, Jesus is Yeshu’a and his name means “Yahweh is Salvation”.
He is the means of salvation but not the source….which is the Father who sent him. (John 17:3)

Emmanuel is, God with us !

Them's is the main Names. but others as well, but they are not direct as above. the others one could get lost in regards the main.

So I am is in regard That that is ? The subject of !

God’s name in Hebrew was lost because the Jews disobediently stopped using it. (Exodus 3:15)

His name (YHWH, Yahweh/Jehovah) according to the Jewish Tanakh means “I Will Be What I Will Be”…..this is what Moses was told to tell his people once they were liberated from slavery in Egypt. It was not a statement of his existence because they already knew that their God existed, but this was a statement of his intentions in connection with his people….He would “BE” whatever he needed to “BE” in order to fulfill his purpose for them.

Who tryes to lead you off that Path ? even The born again have to keep on their toes 24/7 in fact ! If one thinks not you are not abiding, thinking you have won your Salvation ? you never Won nothing ! you abide knowing Christ Jesus did such for you. Now comes the Body and He is The Head their of !
What does the Body do ? it abides in the Head.

Without a head the body ceases to function….it is the command centre. Therefore if Jesus is not the head of the congregation, the body is dead.

Now we come to the game that is played regarding Salvation ? you can loose your Salvation ? well if you can loose it, you never had it in the first place in fact !

Salvation is not something any of us can take for granted, thinking that because Christ died for us that he and his Father require nothing from us…..we have to qualify for salvation by living a life in imitation of Jesus who is our example to follow…and continue to do so.

1 Peter 2:21-25…
”For you were called to this, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you should follow in His steps. He did not commit sin, and no deceit was found in His mouth; when He was reviled, He did not revile in return; when He was suffering, He did not threaten but entrusted Himself to the One who judges justly. He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that, having died to sins, we might live for righteousness; you have been healed by His wounds. For you were like sheep going astray, but you have now returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.” (HCSB)

These are the terms and conditions…..if you do not follow Christ’s example, you lose his guardianship.

2 Peter 2:20-22…
”For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.” (HCSB)

There are none that do not sin because we are for now, still children of Adam…..but if we do sin, there must be repentance, and the will to not repeat the same mistakes again. Unless there is repentance, there is no forgiveness…..and without forgiveness there is no salvation. You most certainly CAN lose your salvation as a free willed person. Gaining the mastery over our own will in our imperfection, requires effort on our part and help from the one who can provide his spirit to get us through this life….and on into the one to come. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[Aunty Jane]

“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Acts 2:21)
At Romans 10:13 Paul also repeated this quote from both Joel and Zephaniah. (Joel 2:32; Zeph 3:9)

How does the Jewish Tanakh translate those verses?
Joel….God’s name is used three times in that one verse.

And it shall come to pass that whoever shall call in the name of the Lord shall be delivered, for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be a deliverance, as the Lord said, and among the survivors whom the Lord invites.

הוְהָיָ֗ה כֹּ֧ל אֲשֶׁר־יִקְרָ֛א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהֹוָ֖ה יִמָּלֵ֑ט כִּ֠י בְּהַר־צִיּ֨וֹן וּבִירֽוּשָׁלִַ֜ם תִּֽהְיֶ֣ה פְלֵיטָ֗ה כַּֽאֲשֶׁר֙ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֔ה וּבַ֨שְּׂרִידִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה קֹרֵֽא:

Zephaniah…

For then I will convert the peoples to a pure language that all of them call in the name of the Lord, to worship Him of one accord.

טכִּי־אָ֛ז אֶהְפֹּ֥ךְ אֶל־עַמִּ֖ים שָׂפָ֣ה בְרוּרָ֑ה לִקְרֹ֚א כֻלָּם֙ בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהֹוָ֔ה לְעָבְד֖וֹ שְׁכֶ֥ם אֶחָֽד:

In the English translation we see the Jewish custom of substituting God’s name for a title (“the Lord”)…but in the Hebrew text, the Tetragrammaton is clearly visible….יְהֹוָ֔ה.

Now, although God’s name was lost to Jewish speech, we see that it did not disappear from their Scripture.
Christendom OTOH removed God’s name altogether from almost all Bible translations, but as was the case with Israel, they did not have God’s command or sanction to do so….in fact this was contrary to the command from their God to retain the divine name in every generation.

Exodus 3:15…

And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.

טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י

“The Lord God” of their forefathers was “Yahweh”. His name was to be “mentioned” which indicates human speech.

Do we have an excuse to deny the sacred name of the one true God?
Does the fact that we cannot say it accurately in Hebrew, mean that we should avoid saying it altogether? And is Hebrew the only language that can covey the true meaning of God’s name? (“I Will Be What I Will Be”) as it is translated from the Hebrew.
Exodus 3:13-15

As the creator of all languages, God knows his name in any tongue, because he is a reader of hearts, and knows those who hold his unique name in reverence, no matter how they might pronounce it.

If those who believe in the trinity can say Jesus’ name in English, why do they hold back from saying the Father’s name in English?
“Jesus” is not his name in Hebrew. According to Strongs it is “yᵊhôšûaʿ ….Joshua or Jehoshua“ meaning "Jehovah is salvation".
Joshua is even a common name to this day, as it was in Bible times. One of only two original members of the exodus to survive the wilderness journey, and enter into the Promised Land, was named Joshua.

Can someone explain that to me? If calling on the name of “Yahweh” means being “saved”, then what happens if we are calling on the wrong name? “Jesus” was the name given to the son of God at the command of God’s messenger, Gabriel.…an important name, but not the name of his Father whom he said he had come to “make his name known”. (John 17:26)

John 17:6 Jesus said….”I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world.”
The word “manifest“ is “phaneroō” and it means “to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown”.
Jesus came to reinstate the divine name to his Jewish apostles…..the one that Israel had failed to honor in all their generations as God had commanded them through Moses.
Is Christendom doing exactly the same thing? How did God’s name get lost…twice?