God as Elohim and Jesus as Michael? Interesting exchanges with a JW and a Mormon

[Emily Nghiem]

Dear Fellow Christians:
I already knew that JW are teaching
to equate Michael with Jesus.
Apparently the Mormons teach that
Jesus as Jehovah manifests as Elohim?

I will copy the messages citing these names of God where these
statements were debated.

To me, Elohim as the plural manifestation of God are like the multiple Angels, where
Michael is one of the Angels. So I align both Michael and Elohim with the
HOLY SPIRIT.

The Holy Spirit ACCOMPANIES Jesus/Yeshua but is not the same manifestation.

All three, Father Son and Holy Spirit are Manifestations of the One God, but each has distinct names and contexts. Because man's perception and language is finite, while God represents things that are infinite, so this requires multiple manifestations and names/contexts of the same universal God for us to discuss the many implications and meanings on our level of experience and understanding that is linear while God is holistic.

Does anyone else have experience communicating and reconciling with JW or Mormons on the names of God and Jesus?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Actual "Mormon" here.

The Son of God has always been and always will be our advocate/intercessor/Savior. In Old Testament times, He was known as "Jehovah" and worked with God's people then. Since His mortal birth He's gone primarily by the name "Jesus".

God the Father and God the Son are two different persons (with the Holy Spirit being a third). For LDS Christians the title "Elohim" usually refers to God the Father. The most commonly we refer to Him as "Heavenly Father".


As to comparing JW and LDS Christian beliefs: honestly those two faiths are EXTREMELY different. One such example being that LDS Christians acknowledge (and celebrate) Jesus Christ and the divine Son of God and Savoir of this world. He is God. Versus JW viewing him as an angel.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Thanks @Jane_Doe22

Here is what another person explained, who seems to present the Mormon/Elohim approach:

CB said:
No. Jesus and Jehovah are one in the same. Elohim is the Father. Jesus (Jehovah is the Son). Adam is the ancient of days or Michael.

[NOTE: the IDMR also teach that Holy Spirit - ELOHIM
and YESHUA = Son/Word of God
while YAHWEH = God the Father]
========================
Here is my response to how these names/titles all relate:
===============================

God has many names.
Wisdom and Truth are names synonymous with the Kingdom of God.
God's Will, Word, Laws and Authority
Are Fulfilled and Embodied in
YESHUA as Salvation or
JESUS as God's Divine JUSTICE.

Elohim is the "plural name of God" more in line with the HOLY SPIRIT on the level of humanity where God's love and truth manifests in our relations between neighbors among the Church or Body/Bride of Christ as the
Lord/Law over all laws, and the Universal Messiah or Message for all people tribes and nations to receive as ONE.

So yes Michael is more on the level of the Holy Spirit, God's Mercy and Wisdom that brings PEACE and COMFORT to the people. Adam marks the original lineage where humans first had conscious awareness of God's will and man's will.

This connection in Christ Jesus or God's Authority of Justice was always with God our Father in Heaven, but became MANIFESTED or embodied/incarnated through Jesus/Yeshua in order to reach all humanity.

The fulfillment is a Process because all Humanity must receive/understand Jesus as Justice and Yeshua as Salvation.

Secular Gentiles under Natural laws receive understanding of Jesus as Justice.

Believers under Scripture receive understanding of Yeshua as Salvation.

Both paths are right, governed and fulfilled by the same Jesus/Yeshua as the Son of God and Son of Man.

Jesus/Yeshua governs both folds of the one flock as one in Christ, or joined in Conscience where male/female are one in harmony (but not the same), Jew and Gentile are one (but not the same), bond and free are one and equal (but not the same).

Father Son and Holy Spirit are one (but not all the same manifestation).

John 10:29-30 Jesus confirms BOTH God the Father is greater than all, while also He and the Father are one (so BOTH statements are equally true, not either/or).

Michael is more a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, and one with Jesus/Yeshua
(But not the same). And both Michael
and Jesus are one with God, but not the same.

Yeshua is the name of the Son that means Salvation.
Jesus is the name of the Son that invokes the spirit of Restorative Justice
to bring Peace which the Holy Spirit represents.

There is one ONE begotten Son of God made manifest so this has to be the same Son, Jesus/Yeshua as the living incarnation of the Word/Laws/Will of God or Justice that brings Salvation.

God has 99 names as well as "Titles"
where Lord/God are called "Titles".

We all know that by the definition and meaning of what "God" represents, all these names/Titles must refer to the one and only supreme/absolute God universal over all.

So all these names/titles point to the same "God/YHWH/Jehovah/Kingdom of God" for any of these claims/names to be true by definition.

We do not need to haggle over which names, because there are multiple contexts and manifestations of the one God.

Please be at peace, please forgive and receive one another all bringing parts of God's truth from multiple angles or angels that all point to the one God or Source of all truth, and all perceptions relative to each tribe God created for His purposes and plans. Not to divide us in fear but to organize us in diverse tribes and nations all bearing witness to the same God who created us all.

Let us give thanks and glory to the one Godly Father in Heaven, and love/forgive one another as His equal children joined as one through Christ Jesus known as Heavenly Salvation and as God's divine universal Equal Justice Under Law and Restorative Justice or Peace and Justice for all Humanity.

In Jesus/Yeshua Name. Amen. Let us receive in full and in peace, Baptizing all Nations in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Amen thanks praise and mercy with grace and salvation to all.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Here is one of the JW explanations of equating Michael with Jesus:

KJW said:
Archangel means chief of the angels. Yes a prince-Appointed to be Gods king. If Jesus were God he would have allready been king. Thus wouldnt need to be appointed. But a prince would have to be appointed. But When all things are made new-Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father and subjects himself-1Cor 15:24-28

CB later said:
Jesus chastised the Israelites for polluting the truth of the teachings. So did Jesus when he was Jehovah. The Prophets teach this.
The Father's name has been revealed in these, the latter days as Elohim. Jehovah was on the right hand of Elohim and came down to atone for our sins as Jesus the Christ. He returned to the Father and back on the right hand of Elohim. You refuse to acknowledge this from a true Prophet of God, Joseph Smith, who never uttered a false prophecy. Unlike yours. Like your first prophet who first said the world would end on a specific date, when it didn't happen, instead of admitting he was a false prophet, he instead said he misinterpreted scripture to hide his falseness. And, it happened 4 other times....

KJW answered:
No where in the bible does it say Jehovah was at the right hand of Elohim. Only by twisting truth. Elohim is not a name.
.... YHWH(Jehovah) is the Fathers name. Jesus is not the Father. ....
=================
Here is how I replied:

Yes, Jesus is not the same as the Father but is ONE with the Father.
God's Word Will Laws and Justice are what are embodied/manifested as Jesus or Yeshua for people as the church body receiving Jesus as Lord or Authority of Law over Gentiles and Jews alike.

[KJW] for you to reject/separate yourself from Christians who believe Jesus is divine incarnation of God's Justice embodied in man, means you and other Jehovah Witnesses are actually Gentiles under Natural Laws receiving Justice that way.

You respond to the Authority of your JW Elders and Organization as the Mediator between you and Jesus as Mediator between man and God.

Secular Gentiles do the same thing and respond to tribal hierarchy as you are under.

When you and your Elders agree in Christ with witnesses from other churches and tribes equally acting as hierarchies, then we will reach consensus on both man's laws and on God's laws through the same Authority of Law that Christ Jesus represents which governs ALL authorities/dominions visible or invisible (Colossians 1:16).

I pray for all witnesses to God's truth to convene and confer with one another (as by Matthew 18:15-20, Matthew 5:44, James 5:16 and Matthew 6:14-15 with God's full forgiveness, protection and correction), praying in agreement in Christ Jesus, for all such rebukes and corrections to be received in this spirit of Universal Peace and Justice for all so God's truth is established among witnesses from every tribe and nation God has called to unite in Christ Jesus name. Amen.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thanks for your response @Emily Nghiem . I can tell you've put a lot of thought into this. A lot of your post I really like.

I do hesitate with the parts about Michael though. He can be one with God in the John 17 sense (Christ's atonement makes it so that we all came be one in the future). But not in the sense that Michael is currently God or the Holy Spirit.

And again, comparing JW and LDS Christian beliefs isn't a very fruitful endeavor for they are so so so different than each other.