God declares Her Blessed!

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Paul Christensen

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no one has authority to worship anyone save God alone, and that always involves adoration reparation and offering of sacrifice

In the line of david Lk 1:32:33 The mother of the king is always the king, and Jesus is king of heaven so Mary must be queen of heaven

read the story of queen Ester she is an Old Testament type of Mary
I don't believe it at all. It is a big stretch and twist of Scripture to make that comparison. Nowhere in the New Testament is Mary mentioned after a mention of her being included as one of the 120 on the day of Pentecost. Paul never mentions Mary, nor does Peter, the Apostle to the Hebrews, or Jude. If Mary was such a significant person to be venerated, you would think that John would have mentioned her in his letters or in the book of Revelation, but he doesn't.

In actual fact, the only "Queen of Heaven" is a pagan deity worshipped in pagan temples or on the side of Starbucks coffee cups.
 

Brakelite

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Jesus person is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother
Mother of our salvation
Do you realise that Jesus, the Son of God, was the Creator of all things? And that includes His own earthly mother who was an obedient vessel and conduit for the human Jesus. I am sure Mary will receive all appropriate honors when she is raised to glory at the second coming along with all of us, but no where in scripture on there a recommendation for Christians to pray to dead people, regardless of who they are.
You are attempting to instill your Catholic beliefs upon Protestants. We are different belief systems with different foundations for faith and practice. The praying to Mary, saints, images, is NOT appropriate for Protestants because there is no biblical mandate for such. It's like trying to induce basketballers to play by NFL rules. Stick to preachingg to your own people.
 

theefaith

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I don't believe it at all. It is a big stretch and twist of Scripture to make that comparison. Nowhere in the New Testament is Mary mentioned after a mention of her being included as one of the 120 on the day of Pentecost. Paul never mentions Mary, nor does Peter, the Apostle to the Hebrews, or Jude. If Mary was such a significant person to be venerated, you would think that John would have mentioned her in his letters or in the book of Revelation, but he doesn't.

In actual fact, the only "Queen of Heaven" is a pagan deity worshipped in pagan temples or on the side of Starbucks coffee cups.

pagan queen of heavens are of course condemned as are all false christs

rev 12 all about Mary
 

theefaith

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Do you realise that Jesus, the Son of God, was the Creator of all things? And that includes His own earthly mother who was an obedient vessel and conduit for the human Jesus. I am sure Mary will receive all appropriate honors when she is raised to glory at the second coming along with all of us, but no where in scripture on there a recommendation for Christians to pray to dead people, regardless of who they are.
You are attempting to instill your Catholic beliefs upon Protestants. We are different belief systems with different foundations for faith and practice. The praying to Mary, saints, images, is NOT appropriate for Protestants because there is no biblical mandate for such. It's like trying to induce basketballers to play by NFL rules. Stick to preachingg to your own people.

they are not dead and they are saints

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

there is no biblical mandate for the reformation or for you to be a rebellious Protestant against the kingdom of God on earth!
 

theefaith

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I don't believe it at all. It is a big stretch and twist of Scripture to make that comparison. Nowhere in the New Testament is Mary mentioned after a mention of her being included as one of the 120 on the day of Pentecost. Paul never mentions Mary, nor does Peter, the Apostle to the Hebrews, or Jude. If Mary was such a significant person to be venerated, you would think that John would have mentioned her in his letters or in the book of Revelation, but he doesn't.

In actual fact, the only "Queen of Heaven" is a pagan deity worshipped in pagan temples or on the side of Starbucks coffee cups.

do you believe the perpetual virginity of Mary?
 

Paul Christensen

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pagan queen of heavens are of course condemned as are all false christs

rev 12 all about Mary
I can see how some may interpret the passage that way, but Revelation being highly symbolic, it would be difficult to base a sound doctrine on it; also there is not mention of the woman being the Queen of Heaven as some suppose Mary to be.
 
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theefaith

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I can see how some may interpret the passage that way, but Revelation being highly symbolic, it would be difficult to base a sound doctrine on it; also there is not mention of the woman being the Queen of Heaven as some suppose Mary to be.

she has a crown must be a queen
The child who rules the nations must be Christ
Mary is His mother
So it must refer to Mary the queen of heaven and in the line of david the mother of the king is the queen

and Mary is the adversary of Satan
Gen 3:15 enmity or total war
None of his works are found in Her
She is immaculate purity
Rev 12 is gen 3:15 writ large
 

theefaith

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Nope. Mary had other children after Jesus. The perpetual virginity of Mary was made up out of the imagination of a Romanist pope to support the pagan worship of the immaculate, ever-virgin, pagan queen of heaven.

not what the Bible says


Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

Pearl

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Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

A woman remains a virgin whilst her hymen is in tact. Once Jesus had passed through the birth canal the hymen would be irreparably torn and so meaning that Mary was no longer a virgin. Or do Catholics think the baby Jesus came out a different way from ordinary mortals?
 

Pearl

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We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."


Mary was NOT the mother of God. God doesn't have a mother. Mary was the mother of first jesus and then his siblings. Some people also believe that Mary was God's wife - and that is wrong too.
 

theefaith

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A woman remains a virgin whilst her hymen is in tact. Once Jesus had passed through the birth canal the hymen would be irreparably torn and so meaning that Mary was no longer a virgin. Or do Catholics think the baby Jesus came out a different way from ordinary mortals?

Jesus’s conception by the Holy Spirit and His birth are miraculous events
Mary remains a perpetual Virgin!
 

theefaith

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Mary was NOT the mother of God. God doesn't have a mother. Mary was the mother of first jesus and then his siblings. Some people also believe that Mary was God's wife - and that is wrong too.

God does have a mother
Jesus is God and Mary is His mother
Lk 1:43
 

farouk

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Mary was NOT the mother of God. God doesn't have a mother. Mary was the mother of first jesus and then his siblings. Some people also believe that Mary was God's wife - and that is wrong too.
@Pearl Important to keep to the language of Scripture, right?

Hoping you guys had a good Christmas. For some of us, a bit of rest now is kind of in order, I guess...
 
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farouk

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A woman remains a virgin whilst her hymen is in tact. Once Jesus had passed through the birth canal the hymen would be irreparably torn and so meaning that Mary was no longer a virgin. Or do Catholics think the baby Jesus came out a different way from ordinary mortals?
@Pearl She wouldn't have wanted to stay a virgin in any case...no reason to, with Joseph.
 
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Paul Christensen

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not what the Bible says


Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
The doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary was dreamed up by one of the popes to support the worship of the pagan queen of heaven. Mary is not in heaven with God and Christ. Her body has decomposed in her grave and her spirit is in Paradise awaiting the second coming of Christ. Mary worshipers are worshiping a demon disguised as the queen of heaven as part of the counterfeit church.
 
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theefaith

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So much for the apostolic authority of the church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles

you make yourself the pope and have pontificated