GOD in the OT and GOD in the NT

[ElieG12]

This thread is not about the trinity. Some people have an obsession with that topic, and they want to talk about the same everywhere, diverting all biblical topics towards the same, and speaking ill of those who do not believe in that doctrine of the Catholic Church.

This thread is about the God of the OT in the NT.

From the mouth of Jesus I remember this other occasion:

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Jesus said his Father is the God of the Jews, obviously the God of the OT, Jehovah.

Can you share any other time you have read where the God of the OT is mentioned in the NT other than by his personal name and clearly distinguished from his Son Jesus?

 

[JunChosen]

....................................
The title of my blog is "Examining the Trinity." The specific study being examined there is "Bar Kochba and the Christians."

Forgive my ignorance but I have not as much heard the name "Bar Kochba" can you elaborate?

 

[ElieG12]

The words "messiah" and "christ" mean the same thing: "anointed".

Implicit in the definition of these synonyms is the fact that an Anointed one, Christ or Messiah, cannot in any way be the same person who anoints.

It was Jehovah who anointed Jesus:

(ASV) Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and he entered, as his custom was, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And he opened the book, and found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down: and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, To-day hath this scripture been fulfilled in your ears.

(ASV) Is. 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 to proclaim the year of Jehovah’s favor (...)

Wow! Jesus is speaking about Jehovah's spirit on him!
He is publicly recognizing that Jehovah has anointed him ... and he is His Messiah!

 

[Bob Estey]

Let's call Jehovah the name of God in the OT, as it is the name in English.

In the Greek manuscripts of the NT that we have so far we do not find the Hebrew name of GOD, although in Hebrew translations of the NT it does appear.

Is the Hebrew GOD, Jehovah, mentioned in the NT in any other way than by his name? What do you tell me?

Over and over Jesus refers to God as "Father."

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus clearly said that Jehovah, the One who Jews say is their God, is his Father (John 8:54,55).

Even if it seems very obvious and basic, many people have not yet realized that when Jesus Christ was talking about his Father, his listeners were thinking on Jehovah, the God of the OT, the God of all the Jews.

Look carefully at what he said about who was worshiped in the temple in Jerusalem:

John 2:13 Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 He found in the temple those selling cattle and sheep and doves, and the money brokers in their seats. 15 So after making a whip of ropes, he drove all those with the sheep and cattle out of the temple, and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of commerce!” 17 His disciples recalled that it is written: “The zeal for your house will consume me.”

When the temple in Jerusalem was originally built, to whose worship was it dedicated? Read 1 Kings 8:12-61 about to whom was the temple in Jerusalem dedicated when it was built.

So, when Jesus said the temple in Jerusalem was the house of his Father, who was he referring to as his Father?

 

[lightlysalted]

Concerning the "name of God" check out around the 20 minute marker.
Interesting indeed.
Hugs

 

[Robert Gwin]

Let's call Jehovah the name of God in the OT, as it is the name in English.

In the Greek manuscripts of the NT that we have so far we do not find the Hebrew name of GOD, although in Hebrew translations of the NT it does appear.

Is the Hebrew GOD, Jehovah, mentioned in the NT in any other way than by his name? What do you tell me?

Jehovah is God sir, and He does not change with time. He said that would be His name forever Ex 3:15. Speaking of names Elie, I dag near came to calling you maam , glad I checked before I posted. Welcome to the forum, I see you are new. Nice speaking with you.

 

[ElieG12]

There is a prophecy from the Hebrew Scriptures that 1st century Christians remembered when non-Jews began to worship Jehovah, the Jews' God, together with the Jews who were first called, following the Messiah sent by God, His Christ.

Amos 9:11 ‘In that day I will raise up the booth of David that is fallen,
I will repair the breaches,
And I will restore its ruins;
I will rebuild it as in the days of long ago,
12 So that they may take possession of what is remaining of Eʹdom,
And all the nations on whom my name has been called,’ declares Jehovah, who is doing this.

With the help of the holy spirit, the group of elders and apostles located in Jerusalem, came to the conclusion that Gentiles would become part of the people who bear the name of God, as Israel had been before the Christians. In a meeting they had in Jerusalem to decide whether Gentiles should be circumcised or not, they came to the following conclusion:

Acts 15:14 Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, 17 so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, 18 known from of old.’ 19 Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God ..."

Notice that the Judeo-Christians who recognized the acceptance of the Gentiles in this people, by God, spoke of the persons who Jehovah would take out of the nations for his name. According to the prophecy in Amos 9:12, what name was that?

And there again, the God of the OT in the NT ... in the fulfillment of an important old prophecy referring to the people, composed by Jews and gentiles, that bears His personal name (Is. 2:2-4).

 

[ElieG12]

Have you ever tried to count the times the Jewish Shema is explicitly mentioned or partially paraphrased in the NT?

Every time that happens in the NT, Christians are being reminded of Jehovah's identity as the only God.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Let's call Jehovah the name of God in the OT, as it is the name in English.

In the Greek manuscripts of the NT that we have so far we do not find the Hebrew name of GOD, although in Hebrew translations of the NT it does appear.

Is the Hebrew GOD, Jehovah, mentioned in the NT in any other way than by his name? What do you tell me?

Look up everything Jesus says and does in the Old Testament. Everything He does is attributed to Yah Havah in the Old Testament. This was His own Testimony, that He did only the Father’s works. Every reference to Jesus is a reference to Yah Havah and there is no verse in which Jesus calls the Father Yah Havah. Jesus had the Father in Him and He was in the Father. He did His Father’s works because He was in the Father and the Father in Him. This was True before creation because Jesus created all things, not all other things or some things, but all things. Jesus wasn't a man before He was born, but God's Word, God's communication of Himself to creation, and God as creator speaking all things into existence.

In the flesh He became a Son of Man as well as the Son of God and His human nature distinguishes Him from the Father, yet He is One God.

As a human Jesus could be tempted to sin. The Father can not be tempted, but the Son was tempted in all ways that men are tempted. This is clear from the epistle Hebrews. Yet seeing Him is seeing God, and not His appearance, but His image, all that God is, is seen in Jesus, God in man.

 

[BeyondET]

I disagree, YHWH God used the title “God Almighty” (El Shaddai) when making his promise to Abraham concerning the birth of Isaac, a promise requiring that Abraham have great faith in God’s power to carry out that promise. It was thereafter used when God was spoken of as the one who would bless Isaac and Jacob as heirs of the Abrahamic covenant..(Genesis17:1; 28:3; 35:11; 48:3)

In harmony with this, YHWH God could later say to Moses: “I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty [El Shaddai], but as respects my name YHWH I did not make myself known to them.” (Exodus 6:3) This could not mean that the name YHWH was unknown to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob since it was frequently used by them as well as by others before them. (Genesis 4:1, 26; 14:22; 27:27; 28:16) In fact, in the book of Genesis, which relates the lives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the word “Almighty” occurs only 6 times, whereas the personal name YHWH was written 172 times in the original Hebrew text. Yet, while Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had come to appreciate by personal experience God’s right to and qualifications for the title of “the Almighty One,” they had not had opportunity to appreciate the full meaning and implications of his personal name, YHWH. In this regard, The Illustrated Bible Dictionary Volume 1, page 572 comments: “The former revelation, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, concerned promises belonging to a distant future; it supposed that they should be assured that He, YHWH, was such a God as was competent to fulfill them. The revelation at the bush was greater and more intimate, God’s power and immediate and continuing presence with them being all wrapped up in the familiar name of YHWH.”

Interesting a few Jewish sites I've looked at saying the original meaning of EI Shaddai is God Mighty Teat and translaters to English didn't prefer the original meaning.

 

[BeyondET]

But it was not always known:
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Why do you suppose YHWH did not make this name known to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
Why was this name revealed to Moses?
If God changed his name once before, how many other names could he have and to what peoples?
Is it possible that God's name was changed again and now is known by the name of Jesus?

Why did he change his name from God Almighty that he was known of by his friend Abraham, to YHWH for Moses?
Why change the name?

hugs

I found the Almighty part fascinating, the original Shaddai, I found out isn't al mighty but mighty teat, translaters didn't use it. but really it's more informative.

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus said not to call him "good" because only one is good, God (Mark 10:18). Notice here some interesting things that explain the reason for his words:

(Rotherham) Mat.5:43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Be loving your enemies, And praying for them who are persecuting you: 45 That ye may become sons of your Father who is in the heavens: Because his sun he maketh arise on evil and good, And sendeth rain on just and unjust. 46 For if ye love them that love you what reward have ye? are not even the tax-collectors the same thing doing?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only what more than common are ye doing? Are not even the nations the same thing doing? 48 Ye therefore shall become perfect: As your heavenly Father is—perfect.
6:1 [But] take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be gazed at by them,—otherwise at least reward have ye none with your Father who is in the heavens.
2 When therefore thou mayest be doing an alms do not sound a trumpet before thee, just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets—that they may be glorified by men, —Verily I say unto you, they are getting back their reward. 3 But thou when doing an alms let not thy left hand know what thy right hand is doing; 4 that thine alms may be in secret, —and thy Father who seeth in secret will give it back to thee.

Notice that Jesus always said that the Father of God's servants is in heaven. Evidently he wasn't talking about himself... for he was on earth. When Jesus spoke of the Father in heaven there would be no "trinity" in heaven, for Jesus himself was below, on earth.

So: what did Jesus mean with his talking about the Father "in him"? Obviously no what many people think it means. He said he was not perfect in goodness as the Father, so the Father was not inside him ... or by saying that he would have offended the Father (Matt. 19:17), who was supposedly within him.

AND all this is evident, since Jehovah is his Father ... and Jesus is not Jehovah, but his Son.

 

[Enoch111]

Let's call Jehovah the name of God in the OT, as it is the name in English.

It is NOT "Jehovah" but YHWH (Yahweh). There is no "J" in the Hebrew alphabet.

And the King James translators were correct in substituting "the LORD" (small caps) for YHWH in the OT, since it was the practice of the Jews to avoid pronouncing the sacred name by substituting "Adonai" (Lord) for Yahweh.

This name YHWH (the Tetragrammaton) applies to both God the Father and God the Son (Jesus). If you deny this then don't waste your time or ours in any further discussion.

When we go to Exodus chapter 3, we discover that Jesus (the pre-incarnate Christ) is called the following names:

1. The Angel of the LORD (YHWH)
2. The LORD (YHWH)
3. God (Elohim)
4. I AM THAT I AM
5. I AM
6. The LORD God (YHWH Elohim) of your fathers
7. The God (Elohim) of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
8. The LORD God (YHWH Elohim) of the Hebrews

The reason that this is Jesus and not God the Father is because "NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD [the Father] AT ANY TIME" and "GOD [the Father] IS A SPIRIT". But the Angel of the LORD was seen by many and worshipped as God. For example He appeared to Abraham when Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac.

 

[BeyondET]

Jesus said not to call him "good" because only one is good, God (Mark 10:18). Notice here some interesting things that explain the reason for his words:

(Rotherham) Mat.5:43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Be loving your enemies, And praying for them who are persecuting you: 45 That ye may become sons of your Father who is in the heavens: Because his sun he maketh arise on evil and good, And sendeth rain on just and unjust. 46 For if ye love them that love you what reward have ye? are not even the tax-collectors the same thing doing?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only what more than common are ye doing? Are not even the nations the same thing doing? 48 Ye therefore shall become perfect: As your heavenly Father is—perfect.
6:1 [But] take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be gazed at by them,—otherwise at least reward have ye none with your Father who is in the heavens.
2 When therefore thou mayest be doing an alms do not sound a trumpet before thee, just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets—that they may be glorified by men, —Verily I say unto you, they are getting back their reward. 3 But thou when doing an alms let not thy left hand know what thy right hand is doing; 4 that thine alms may be in secret, —and thy Father who seeth in secret will give it back to thee.

Notice that Jesus always said that the Father of God's servants is in heaven. Evidently he wasn't talking about himself... for he was on earth. When Jesus spoke of the Father in heaven there would be no "trinity" in heaven, for Jesus himself was below, on earth.

So: what did Jesus mean with his talking about the Father "in him"? Obviously no what many people think it means. He said he was not perfect in goodness as the Father, so the Father was not inside him ... or by saying that he would have offended the Father (Matt. 19:17), who was supposedly within him.

AND all this is evident, since Jehovah is his Father ... and Jesus is not Jehovah, but his Son.

It's a state of being localized and centralized.

 

[ElieG12]

This topic is not about the English form Jehovah that translates the Tetragrammaton in so many Bibles since centuries ago ...

I do accept and will use that form because everyone who speaks English knows to whom it refers to and who is Jehovah, and certainly you do not know what God thinks about that matter, but you only argue with human reasoning.

If you want to talk about that other topic, open another thread and maybe I will share there some ideas I learned about it ... not here. This thread is about the God of the OT mentioned in the NT in many diferent ways.

AGAIN: I DO ACCEPT AND I WILL USE THE FORM JEHOVAH
because everyone knows that it translates in English the hebrew name of God for centuries ... I am sure God answer to all English-speakers who call Him like that. So do not insist.

Don't you know who I am talking about? You certainly do. Read any Bible in English made before 80 years ago and you'll see that name, like in Psal. 83:18.

 

[ElieG12]

It's a state of being localized and centralized.

No idea what you mean.

The Father is an individual and Jesus is another different individual. Each of them have a different name:

(ASV) Rev. 3:12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
... 14:1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.

 

[BeyondET]

No idea what you mean.

The Father is an individual and Jesus is another different individual. Each of them have a different name:

(ASV) Rev. 3:12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
... 14:1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.

Yes each with One forehead...

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus was very interested in his followers knowing clearly who had sent him. Just in his prayer to Jehovah recorded in John 17, he says about 7 times that he had made it clear to his followers that He had sent him.

(Rotherham) John 17:1 These things spake Jesus, and lifting up his eyes unto heaven said:

—Father! The hour is come! Glorify thy Son, That the Son may glorify thee,—
2 Even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, That as touching whatsoever thou hast given him He might give unto them life age-abiding.
3 And this is the age-abiding life, That they get to know thee, the only real God, And him whom thou didst send, Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified thee on the earth, The work finishing which thou hast given me that I should do.
5 And now glorify me —thou, Father, With thyself with the glory which I had before the world’s existence with thee.
6 I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were And to me thou gavest them, And thy word have they kept:
7 Now have they come to know That all things as many as thou gavest me are from thee;
8 And the declarations which thou gavest me have I given them, And they received them and came to know in truth, That from thee came I forth,—And they believed That thou didst send me forth.
9 I concerning them make request: Not concerning the world do I make request, But concerning them whom thou hast given me Because thine they are,—
10 And all my possessions are thine And thy possessions mine, And I have been glorified in them.
11 And no longer am I in the world, And they are in the world, —And I unto thee am coming. Holy Father! Keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, That they may be one as we.
12 When I was with them I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me,—And I kept watch, And none from among them went to destruction,—Save the son of destruction, That the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now unto thee am I coming; And these things am I speaking in the world, That they may have my own joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word, And the world hated them Because they are not of the world—Even as I am not of the world.
15 I request not that thou wouldst take them out of the world But that thou wouldst keep them out of the evil:
16 Of the world they are not, Even as I am not of the world.
17 Hallow them in the truth: Thine own word is truth.
18 Even as thou didst send me forth into the world I also send them forth into the world;
19 And on their behalf I hallow myself, That they also may have become hallowed in truth.
20 Not however concerning these alone do I make request, But concerning them also who believe through their word on me:
21 That they all may be one, —Even as thou Father in me, And I in thee, —That they also in us may be; —That the world may believe that thou didst send me forth.
22 And I the glory which thou hast given to me have given to them, That they may be one Even as we are one,—
23 I in them and thou in me; That they may have been perfected into one, — That the world may get to know That thou didst send me forth, And didst love themeven as thou didst love me.
24 Father! As touching that which thou hast given me I desire—That where I am They also may be with me, That they may behold my own glory which thou hast given me,—Because thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 Righteous Father! And so the world came not to know thee; But I came to know thee, And these came to know that thou didst send me forth:
26 And I made known unto them thy name and will make known,—That the love wherewith thou lovedst me In them may be, And I in them.

Did you know that it was Jehovah who sent Jesus forth into the world?

 

[ElieG12]

Peter said that there will come to be "new" heaven and earth compared to the ones that exist in this era. Peter said that it will happen because it is a promise from God.

2 Peter 3:13 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God (...) ? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Where did Peter learn that God had promised such a thing?

It was from here:

Is. 65:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry; behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty; behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be put to shame; 14 behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall wail for vexation of spirit. 15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen; and the Lord Jehovah will slay thee; and he will call his servants by another name: 16 so that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

And there again: Jehovah in the NT.