God the Holy Spirit - third person of the Godhead

[bbyrd009]

More Bible - less "creative writing" please.

you cry for peace, but there will be war
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword (do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth)
a man's enemies will be those of his own house

Now the Lord is that Spirit
Your ways are not My ways
God is not a man, that He should lie

It was a simple point obvious to all of us.

who is "us," Bob?

I'm not part of "us" any more, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Going to my prayer closet and seek His Truth on this......

knowledge brings sorrow

but i guess it isn't permanent

 

[Heart2Soul]

knowledge brings sorrow

but i guess it isn't permanent

Ha! Knowledge is POWER! Let that sink in!

 

[bbyrd009]

Ha! Knowledge is POWER! Let that sink in!

ah, i guess the point of the v "knowledge brings sorrow" is that maybe we prefer to ignore any truth that is unpleasant or challenges our premises. Wadr "knowledge is power" is surely true from a pov, but it is also a way to destruction

 

[BobRyan]

who is "us," Bob?

I'm not part of "us" any more, i guess

The answer to every post cannot possibly be a bit of creative writing and some random texts. At least if the intent is to have a compelling statement from it.

 

[BobRyan]

I just don't know what to think here.....I have always been taught the Trinity....didn't know that there was opposition to this.

Every truth in the Bible will have some opposition.

But how I perceive the Trinity is 3 separate distinct individuals but of the same origin. All are exact in that they are in harmony in one mind, one truth and one Creator Elohim.

"One God" Deut 6:4 "God is one"
In "Three Persons" Matthew 28:19 - 'the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

God says "I alone am God - I know of no other" Isaiah 45:5

 

[bbyrd009]

The answer to every post cannot possibly be a bit of creative writing and some random texts. At least if the intent is to have a compelling statement from it.

well Bob, you could have chosen to thread the part of the post that you ignored i guess, but i am finding my exclusion from "us" compelling enough wadr; after all, what do you expect "them" to do anyway, huh?

anyway, pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name?

 

[bbyrd009]

Every truth in the Bible will have some opposition.

When you recognize that you cannot Quote a single unopposed truth from the Bible--bc after all the Bible is not the Book of Truth, is it--then the nature of truth is revealed imo.

But let's be honest here Bob, "they heard the Word and then searched the Scriptures to verify It" is pretty plain, right
guess we can all agree on that, just like you said?
it's certainly plain enough to us, Bob

i guess sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better? Hope you take this in the spirit intended.
Bc i don't know anything, i'm just trying out diff perspectives here ok
lemme know if any of this works for you, but i'm pretty sure i can guess which thread you're going to pull next now lol

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This thread is about the Bible support for the personhood and Deity of the Holy Spirit.

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All thin 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are onegs that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one


Matt 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Acts 15
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled,

Rom 8
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Acts 13
2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

Heb 3
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,



Did you see my response that nobody is claiming that "God is sexually a male and does not procreate"?? And yet is still "a person"??

That a "person" is what is referenced when in Acts 15 they said "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no further burden on you than this...".

That it is "A person" that is the "additional comforter as was Christ" another helper -- in John 14 and John 16.

That we do not say "it seemed good to the telephone and to us to tell the truth to you today"?

That in Matthew 12 blasphemy against Christ is forgiven but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - ??



Indeed - teacher. paraklete

A person... not "the telephone" or a paper weight.
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us " Acts 15.
"the Holy Spirit said..." Hebrews 3... not "that rocking chair said"




again... pointing to him as a person in the masculine even though nobody argues that the Holy Spirit is by gender or sex -- a male.



And of course we do not claim that "another advocate" like Christ -- would require us to argue that He is "not a person as-if Christ was not a person", because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

Details matter


You are speculating. Speculation proves nothing.

Context and detail - prove everything.



From the standpoint of sex and gender - God is God and not "male" as we all know so then "HE" is not entirely accurate.

Still he is a person

The point remains.

You are the one who doesn't get the point. I am referring to what is written down in black and white in the scriptures. In regard to the scriptures of John that you refer these scriptures when using such words as Advocate or comforter when he refers back to them he uses the word "he", in other words John uses the word "he" when using such words as Advocate or Comforter but he doesn't use the word "he" in regard to the word Spirit but instead uses the word "it" when referring back to the word Spirit. If John were speaking of a third person of some Godhead as you say I honestly don't think John would call God Holy Spirit an it, but he does, Why? It would be much more clear and understandable if John did use the word "he" when speaking of the Spirit, but he doesn't. I'm not going to ignore what is written down in black and white in scripture just because of someone personal belief. These scriptures in John are not saying what you are saying they say. BTW when someone ignores what is written down in black and white in scripture just to try to prove their personal belief, now that's speculating. You want everyone to ignore what is written down in black and white in scripture in favor of your personal belief. You have a right to your personal belief, but when you say something the scriptures are not saying I'm going to disagree with you.

 

[BobRyan]

You are the one who doesn't get the point. I am referring to what is written down in black and white in the scriptures.

Me too

"The Holy Spirit SAID" Hebrews 3
"It seemed good TO THE HOLY SPIRIT and to us" Acts 15
"HE will guide you into ALL truth" John 16
He is "ANOTHER comforter/counselor/teacher" in addition to Christ -- John 14
"In the NAME of " the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19
HE convicts the WORLD of sin - John 16
"He who searches our hearts KNOWS the MIND of the Spirit" Romans 8:27
The Spirit "KNOWS the thoughts of of God" 1 Cor 2:11
"the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2

In regard to the scriptures of John that you refer these scriptures when using such words as Advocate or comforter when he refers back to them he uses the word "he", in other words John uses the word "he" when using such words as Advocate or Comforter

Another one -- like Christ.. And of course Christ is a person.

but he doesn't use the word "he" in regard to the word Spirit but instead uses the word "it" when referring back to the word Spirit. If John were speaking of a third person of some Godhead as you say I honestly don't think John would call God Holy Spirit an it, but he does, Why?

You are using "proof by speculation" at that point. The details I have listed don't support it.

And as we already agreed -- God is not by sex-or-gender either male or female. The translators have it right.

You have a right to your personal belief, but when you say something the scriptures are not saying I'm going to disagree with you.

We differ on your speculation - is all and you show the problem by ignoring almost every example I have given above. Adding them to OP

 

[bbyrd009]

imagine how we feel then, Bob

 

[bbyrd009]

"The Holy Spirit SAID" Hebrews 3
"It seemed good TO THE HOLY SPIRIT and to us" Acts 15
"HE will guide you into ALL truth" John 16
He is "ANOTHER comforter/counselor/teacher" in addition to Christ -- John 14
"In the NAME of " the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19
HE convicts the WORLD of sin - John 16
"He who searches our hearts KNOWS the MIND of the Spirit" Romans 8:27
The Spirit "KNOWS the thoughts of of God" 1 Cor 2:11
"the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2

the difference in the way Scripture personifies spirits--to establish them as real, as creations, even if they are not embodied--v the way we actually de-personify to make similar associations--we "right the ship," or "read the writing on the wall" iow--can also provide insight, even if a reader is deterministic. There are also Scriptures that discuss this--a couple Quoted already--pretty sure there is even a chapter devoted to the concept. Wise (logical) readers are not going to read truth, wisdom is hidden from the wise

No Apostles heard the Word any differently than any of us might today; the Spirit is surely attributed as having said "set apart Barnabas and Saul" bc of mutual agreement with even those Apostles who might otherwise have disagreed, or something similar to that, truth is established in the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses. Some Apostle said something to the effect, and another one said "wow, i was just thinking the same thing" and etc, just like we do today prolly

 

[Taken]

As we all know the Bible defines

Deut 6:4 ONE GOD
Matthew 28:19 - in THREE PERSONS

This thread is about the Bible support for the personhood and Deity of the Holy Spirit.

Yes ONE God, creator and maker of all things.

One God, everlasting, ever observant of every detail of all His creations.

One God, Life and provider OF LIFE to His Creations. He gives Life and Takes Back Life.

One God, Ultimate Power. He gives Power and Takes back Power.

One God, Word of His Knowledge. He gives His Word and STOPS giving His Word, WHEN men reject Him.

One God, THEE "Express" source of "the" "UNDERSTANDING" Of His Word. He gives His Understanding "TO" those "WHOM" have accepted Him "FOREVER" as Their Supreme God.

One God, revealed with Many Names/Titles/ Characteristics/ Doing Particular THINGS in particular places, at particular timeframes......
Yet Never Separated Or Divided Or Depleted within Himself.

Most common...title "Father" "Yahweh" is referenced To God In His Heavenly Estate.

Most common...title "Word", "Son" "Jesus" is
referenced To God On Earth, available To the People In "their" Estate.

Most common...title "Holy Spirit" is referenced To God in Heaven as "Almighty"
AND
God on Earth as "Christ".

God Is everywhere....always observing and filling His books / accounting / of WHAT His creations Are Doing.

Individuals Can know and comprehend God Is everywhere ....And Also Know "Particular" places He Was....or Is.

His desire IS that His creations Desire To be hungry and thirsty for His Word...seek It, find It, and Gobble It up, and He FOREVER Become "Their God".

Once an Individual Freely and heartfully and Truthfully Elects To Choose God FOREVER above all other Gods,("HE" To Be their God...)
His Supreme (Holy Spirit) Power, EFFECTS their Choice To Be FOREVER So.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Now the Lord is that Spirit
Your ways are not My ways
God is not a man, that He should lie

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This thread is about the Bible support for the personhood and Deity of the Holy Spirit.

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All thin 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are onegs that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one


Matt 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Acts 15
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled,

Rom 8
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Acts 13
2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

Heb 3
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,



Did you see my response that nobody is claiming that "God is sexually a male and does not procreate"?? And yet is still "a person"??

That a "person" is what is referenced when in Acts 15 they said "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no further burden on you than this...".

That it is "A person" that is the "additional comforter as was Christ" another helper -- in John 14 and John 16.

That we do not say "it seemed good to the telephone and to us to tell the truth to you today"?

That in Matthew 12 blasphemy against Christ is forgiven but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - ??



Indeed - teacher. paraklete

A person... not "the telephone" or a paper weight.
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us " Acts 15.
"the Holy Spirit said..." Hebrews 3... not "that rocking chair said"




again... pointing to him as a person in the masculine even though nobody argues that the Holy Spirit is by gender or sex -- a male.



And of course we do not claim that "another advocate" like Christ -- would require us to argue that He is "not a person as-if Christ was not a person", because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

Details matter


You are speculating. Speculation proves nothing.

Context and detail - prove everything.



From the standpoint of sex and gender - God is God and not "male" as we all know so then "HE" is not entirely accurate.

Still he is a person

The point remains.

At Acts 15 I believe you are ignoring too many things that are in that chapter of Acts. Like when James who stood up to talk and spoke about what Peter had done when the people of the nation's(Gentiles) were first called. Do you recall that incident that James is bringing up? How God in a vision showed Peter food and God told him to eat but Peter refused saying that he had never eaten anything unclean then God told Peter not to call anything unclean that God said was clean. Then he was led by three men that God had sent to him to a group of Gentiles who told Peter they were gathered there to hear what he had to say, and when Peter was speaking to them about the magnificent things that God had done for his people before Peter could finish these Gentiles started speaking in tongues proving they were acceptable to God and ready to be baptized. Did the Holy Spirit influence these Gentiles, yes but just because they were influence by God Holy Spirit doesn't make the Holy Spirit a person. People can be influence by hate, love and even death but that doesn't mean hate, love or death are persons. The Bible personifies love, death and sin but that doesn't mean the scriptures are saying love death or sin are persons. The scriptures personifies the Holy Spirit too but that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is a person. God Holy Spirit is a Holy Active Force that, teaches, reproves, incites,etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

another perspective that i would think even determinists would find troubling is that we are the imaginary ones; we are figments of God's imagination. We already know (have determined, iow) that all of the matter that comprises the human race would fit in a teaspoon, etc, yet we want to make God into a person

 

[Enoch111]

Not therefore "gods" in the strictest sense, but possessing a derived, and so a qualified, divinity.

Not divinity but delegated authority. This was addressed to the judges of Israel and elohim (gods) can also be translated as "mighty ones".

 

[Heart2Soul]

another perspective that i would think even determinists would find troubling is that we are the imaginary ones; we are figments of God's imagination. We already know (have determined, iow) that all of the matter that comprises the human race would fit in a teaspoon, etc, yet we want to make God into a person

So is stand-up comedy a gift from the Holy Spirit or is this the workings of a tormented and demented mind that likes to torture its audience with babble that is difficult to comprehend its meaning and intent?

 

[Heart2Soul]

ah, i guess the point of the v "knowledge brings sorrow" is that maybe we prefer to ignore any truth that is unpleasant or challenges our premises. Wadr "knowledge is power" is surely true from a pov, but it is also a way to destruction

Well then lets add Wisdom and Understanding to keep it in check!

 

[bbyrd009]

So is stand-up comedy a gift from the Holy Spirit or is this the workings of a tormented and demented mind that likes to torture its audience with babble that is difficult to comprehend its meaning and intent?

yes? at least that is my guess

i tried Scripture and It was ignored, dunno what else might serve here tbh
ah, i guess It was actually denied, huh
that amounts to a denial i think