God the Holy Spirit - third person of the Godhead

[Angelina]

But you spoke of 'breaking pieces' off, which diminshes the fullness of your 'loaf'. That is the partialism.

It is just an analogy. The idea was that it was the same loaf coming from the same Godhead. We believe in the same thing bro...

 

[BobRyan]

you have ignored what I said regarding the Greek manuscripts. Did John use the masculine pronoun despite the neuter gender of the word “spirit”?

Did you see my response that nobody is claiming that "God is sexually a male and does not procreate"?? And yet is still "a person"??

That a "person" is what is referenced when in Acts 15 they said "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no further burden on you than this...".

That it is "A person" that is the "additional comforter as was Christ" another helper -- in John 14 and John 16.

That we do not say "it seemed good to the telephone and to us to tell the truth to you today"?

That in Matthew 12 blasphemy against Christ is forgiven but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - ??

Was his purpose to show that the spirit is indeed a person? Why not reread John chapter 16:7,8? What is the antecedent of the pronoun “he”? In other words what word is before the word "he", "Comforter[pa·raʹkle·tos]

Indeed - teacher. paraklete

A person... not "the telephone" or a paper weight.
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us " Acts 15.
"the Holy Spirit said..." Hebrews 3... not "that rocking chair said"

or Spirit [pneuʹma] Is it not the word “Comforter”? Yes, and the Greek word so rendered is pa·raʹkle·tos and is masculine in gender. Rightly, then, John used masculine pronouns in this passage because grammatical usage required it.

again... pointing to him as a person in the masculine even though nobody argues that the Holy Spirit is by gender or sex -- a male.

. At John 14:16, 17, Rotherham renders Jesus’ words as follows: “I will request the Father, and Another Advocate [pa·raʹkle·tos] will he give unto you, that he may be with you age-abidingly, —the Spirit [pneuʹma] of truth,

And of course we do not claim that "another advocate" like Christ -- would require us to argue that He is "not a person just as Christ was not a person", because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

 

[Angelina]

But you spoke of 'breaking pieces' off, which diminshes the fullness of your 'loaf'. That is the partialism.

This is part of CyB forums statement of Faith and what I believe. I'm sorry that my analogy does not do it for you...

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Proving that even non-Christians can easily master the practice of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice "To see IF those things are so"

Acts 17:11 proves the Bible is not Word,

I find you logic "illusive" just then.

 

[BobRyan]

As I already said in this thread, I do not ignore any part of scripture. Some of it may not have been quickened in me yet because it has not been God's time, but that is not ignoring. Rather it is simply me waiting on the Lord.

You cannot blame God for something that you are doing.

 

[amadeus]

You cannot blame God for something that you are doing.

Who is blaming God? God does have His time for things. We need to pay attention to Him to act as He wants us act and when He wants to act or to refrain from action:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." Ecc 3:1-8

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Did you see my response that nobody is claiming that "God is sexually a male and does not procreate"?? And yet is still "a person"??

That a "person" is what is referenced when in Acts 15 they said "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no further burden on you than this...".

That it is "A person" that is the "additional comforter as was Christ" another helper -- in John 14 and John 16.

That we do not say "it seemed good to the telephone and to us to tell the truth to you today"?

That in Matthew 12 blasphemy against Christ is forgiven but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - ??



Indeed - teacher. paraklete

A person... not "the telephone" or a paper weight.
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us " Acts 15.
"the Holy Spirit said..." Hebrews 3... not "that rocking chair said"




again... pointing to him as a person in the masculine even though nobody argues that the Holy Spirit is by gender or sex -- a male.



And of course we do not claim that "another advocate" like Christ -- would require us to argue that He is "not a person just as Christ was not a person", because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

These scriptures don't use the word "he" when speaking of the Spirit, instead these scriptures use the word "it" when speaking of the Spirit. Why would these scriptures use the word "it" when speaking of the Spirit? If John was trying to speak of a third person of a Godhead why wouldn't he use the word " he" when speaking of the Spirit? It would be very clear if he had but instead he uses the word "it" when speaking of the Spirit. I see nowhere in these scriptures where John was speaking of a third person of a Godhead God Spirit can comfort us and be a advocate for us but that doesn't make the Spirit a person.

BTW I wasn't at anytime saying God was sexually a male or that he procreated. I was simply stating that in the scriptures in which people who believe in the Trinity that a word such as "he" in those scriptures the word "he" isn't used in regard to the Spirit but in regard to such words as Advocate or comforter and in regard to the word Spirit a word such as "it" is used when speaking of the Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

I find you logic "illusive" just then.

we're both reading the same Passage there Bob, why aren't we both understanding that
they heard the Word, and then searched the Scriptures to verify It?
Just like It says?

Proving that even non-Christians can easily master the practice of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice "To see IF those things are so"

i mean pls Bob

 

[BobRyan]

This thread is about the Bible support for the personhood and Deity of the Holy Spirit.

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All thin 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are onegs that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one


Matt 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Acts 15
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled,

Rom 8
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Acts 13
2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

Heb 3
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,

you have ignored what I said regarding the Greek manuscripts. Did John use the masculine pronoun despite the neuter gender of the word “spirit”?

Did you see my response that nobody is claiming that "God is sexually a male and does not procreate"?? And yet is still "a person"??

That a "person" is what is referenced when in Acts 15 they said "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no further burden on you than this...".

That it is "A person" that is the "additional comforter as was Christ" another helper -- in John 14 and John 16.

That we do not say "it seemed good to the telephone and to us to tell the truth to you today"?

That in Matthew 12 blasphemy against Christ is forgiven but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - ??

Was his purpose to show that the spirit is indeed a person? Why not reread John chapter 16:7,8? What is the antecedent of the pronoun “he”? In other words what word is before the word "he", "Comforter[pa·raʹkle·tos]

Indeed - teacher. paraklete

A person... not "the telephone" or a paper weight.
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us " Acts 15.
"the Holy Spirit said..." Hebrews 3... not "that rocking chair said"

or Spirit [pneuʹma] Is it not the word “Comforter”? Yes, and the Greek word so rendered is pa·raʹkle·tos and is masculine in gender. Rightly, then, John used masculine pronouns in this passage because grammatical usage required it.

again... pointing to him as a person in the masculine even though nobody argues that the Holy Spirit is by gender or sex -- a male.

. At John 14:16, 17, Rotherham renders Jesus’ words as follows: “I will request the Father, and Another Advocate [pa·raʹkle·tos] will he give unto you, that he may be with you age-abidingly, —the Spirit [pneuʹma] of truth,

And of course we do not claim that "another advocate" like Christ -- would require us to argue that He is "not a person as-if Christ was not a person", because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

Details matter

These scriptures don't use the word "he" when speaking of the Spirit, instead these scriptures use the word "it" when speaking of the Spirit. Why would these scriptures use the word "it" when speaking of the Spirit?

You are speculating. Speculation proves nothing.

Context and detail - prove everything.

If John was trying to speak of a third person of a Godhead why wouldn't he use the word " he" when speaking of the Spirit?

From the standpoint of sex and gender - God is God and not "male" as we all know so then "HE" is not entirely accurate.

Still he is a person

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Proving that even non-Christians can easily master the practice of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice "To see IF those things are so"

Acts 17:11 proves the Bible is not Word,

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

we're both reading the same Passage there Bob, why aren't we both understanding that
they heard the Word, and then searched the Scriptures to verify It?
Just like It says?
i mean pls Bob

They did not use the circular reasoning that speculates that they heard a teaching and then studied only the teaching and NOT the actual scriptures to "see IF" that teaching holds water.

Rather instead of that bit of creative writing the text says -

Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

NonChristians do not "Start" from the POV of taking whatever a Christian says as the not-to-be-doubted-Word-of-God (Because that is circular reasoning and not testing of anything).... obviously.

We need to all agree to a certain degree of common sense in the discussion

 

[bbyrd009]

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

so much for all that "we can all read and understand the Bible just fine" then, huh?

They did not use the circular reasoning that speculates that they heard a teaching and then studied only the teaching and NOT the actual scriptures to "see IF" that teaching holds water.

doesn't even make sense Bob, sorry, i am not suggesting any circular reasoning that speculates anything, i am reading the same thing you are, "they heard the Word and then verified It in Scripture" because These are two different Things, and plenty of Witness exists for this also, with all due respect. The Bible is not the Book of Truth, and you cannot Quote "the Bible is the Word"--i mean really, shouldn't that be the standard?--and on and on

 

[bbyrd009]

We need to all agree to a certain degree of common sense in the discussion

actually we don't Bob, as you are demonstrating right now even, or i guess i should say "as i am demonstrating right now," bc for all i know you are the only one making any sense to most people, and i guess i have to admit that i don't make much sense to anyone. i won't bother bringing up Nonsense here as that would be self-serving, but it's maybe worth some reflection too.
Good talking to you, and nice to meet you

 

[bbyrd009]

you cry for peace, but there will be war
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword (do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth)
a man's enemies will be those of his own house

 

[bbyrd009]

because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

? oh, i am, Bob, i am 100% arguing that Christ is not a person wadr, and i think i have even made that very plain?
Now the Lord is that Spirit
Your ways are not My ways
God is not a man, that He should lie

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

? oh, i am, Bob, i am 100% arguing that Christ is not a person

More Bible - less "creative writing" please.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
because no one has yet come to the point of arguing that Christ is not a person.

actually we don't Bob,

More common sense -- less creative writing please.

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Proving that even non-Christians can easily master the practice of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice "To see IF those things are so"

Acts 17:11 proves the Bible is not Word,

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

we're both reading the same Passage there Bob, why aren't we both understanding that
they heard the Word, and then searched the Scriptures to verify It?
Just like It says?
i mean pls Bob

They did not use the circular reasoning that speculates that they heard a teaching and then studied only the teaching and NOT the actual scriptures to "see IF" that teaching holds water.

Rather instead of that bit of creative writing the text says -

Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

NonChristians do not "Start" from the POV of taking whatever a Christian says as the not-to-be-doubted-Word-of-God (Because that is circular reasoning and not testing of anything).... obviously.

We need to all agree to a certain degree of common sense in the discussion

so much for all that "we can all read and understand the Bible just fine" then, huh?
doesn't even make sense Bob, sorry,

It was a simple point obvious to all of us.

 

[Helen]

I thought that “Christ” was a title...not a person.
Jesus Christ is the person of the Son ...

How did the thread go from The Holy Spirit...to now , Jesus Christ?
Where are the doubts....

 

[Enoch111]

Where are the doubts....

They are still with the Doubting Thomases.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I just don't know what to think here.....I have always been taught the Trinity....didn't know that there was opposition to this. But how I perceive the Trinity is 3 separate distinct individuals but of the same origin. All are exact in that they are in harmony in one mind, one truth and one Creator Elohim.
God even bestowed upon man the respect of being gods...…so is the issue using God before each person of the Godhead....
Psalm 82
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 6. - I have said, Ye are gods; i.e. "in my Law I have called you gods" - I have given you this lofty name (see Exodus 21:6; Exodus 22:8, 9), since ye judge on my behalf, "as my representatives" (Deuteronomy 1:17; 2 Chronicles 19:6; Romans 13:1, 2). And all of you are children of the Most High. Not therefore "gods" in the strictest sense, but possessing a derived, and so a qualified, divinity.

Going to my prayer closet and seek His Truth on this......