God's Omniscience

[dajoshe]

This may sound like a foolish question to many of you, but it came up again in my Bible study at church (for the second time). One example mentioned was when Stephen was stoned. It was stated that God didn't know this was going to happen, because if he did he would be condoning murder. Another example that came up was that if a believer turns away from Him, He does not know this is going to happen until it does. God granting us freewill was the reason given for this. I argued that, for whatever reason people do what they do, or whatever happens or is going to happen, God knows it. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that Christians in the church I belong to ( including the pastor, in whom I have great respect} believe that God does not know ALL things that are going to happen. This is making me wonder if I should continue attending this particular church or not. I don't think I can ever be convinced that God does not know All that will happen. Is it me, am I missing something?

For His Glory

 

[TexUs]

This may sound like a foolish question to many of you, but it came up again in my Bible study at church (for the second time). One example mentioned was when Stephen was stoned. It was stated that God didn't know this was going to happen, because if he did he would be condoning murder.

Where does it say that God didn't know??? I didn't read Stephen's sermon, but I did read before and after it, and I didn't see anywhere where it said God didn't know?

A couple things to think about... When Abraham (Genesis 18) pleads for Sodom... He keeps lowering his number and "arguing" with God, "if there are this many, will you spare them?"... Do you think Abraham was changing God's mind, or God didn't know? Or was God teaching Abraham a lesson here?
I think we see this often. When God is seemingly changing his mind or not knowing what'll happen... It's because he's teaching us something.

Just like a parent with your kid, sometimes you know the answer, but you've got to let your kid run their course themselves in order for them to realize you know what you're talking about.

Another example that came up was that if a believer turns away from Him, He does not know this is going to happen until it does. God granting us freewill was the reason given for this.

Well, God wouldn't be God if he didn't know everything. He provided Christ before the foundations of the world... So the answer to the sin that hadn't yet happened was already provided for!
I'd also contend, that when you're sovereign over everything, and know exactly what'll happen if you create the world a particular way, does there even exist a line between knowing ahead of time and actually doing it?
This is a big topic of which much debate and discussion will be done.

Personally, I don't believe in "free will". Free being... unrestricted. I don't believe we have a free, unrestricted choice in all that we do. Especially in the area of salvation. Here's my reasons. Many will disagree, and some will think I'm crazy. I would have many years ago as well.
I believe the Bible is clear that we are totally evil, we don't seek God, we are not spiritually discerning. If we truly believe and understand this, a person cannot seek nor ask God to save them. The only way it happens is when God opens our eyes to his truth... The act of salvation is entirely upon Him, not a thing we do. Think back to your salvation process, would you give ANY credit to yourself? "I found Christ"??? Or is the story always "Christ found me"????
So, God does the saving. I also believe the Bible is clear that Christ carries on his work to completion, He won't start a work in you to not finish it. Phil 1:6. So I believe once he saves you, you're saved. I don't believe people can turn away. The people that turn away never had an encounter with Christ in the first place!

So this should help answer your question of people turning away from Him. It should also help out a bit in understanding that NOTHING happens that God hasn't planned to happen.

Now, do I feel like I have the choice to turn left or right at an intersection? Sure. But I also believe that whatever my decision will be, God has planned it to be that way. We just cannot understand this.
I think free will folks try to put God in a box. Free will is a seeming perception of mankind that we try to apply to God, we try to put him on a timeline, apply human perception to him, and I just don't think that's Biblical and I also think that doesn't make for a Sovereign God.
I've described it before as throwing a pile of dirt down. Then, from the top of the pile, draw with your finger a curving channel down the side of the dirt. This is God's plan.
Now pour water at the top of the channel, at the top of the dirt. The water is creation and mankind... It's free by nature, but the water itself doesn't know that it'll obey the plan of God and it'll only go within the channel that's been dug into the dirt. The water doesn't know where it'll end up, but it's free, while at the same time, it's only going where God has ordained it to go.


Much of this may be new concepts to you (maybe not)... I just threw alot of ideas at you at once so feel free to ask for clarification at whatever "clicks".

This is making me wonder if I should continue attending this particular church or not. I don't think I can ever be convinced that God does not know All that will happen. Is it me, am I missing something?

I don't think it's worth breaking fellowship over from what you described to me.
Are they actually teaching "God doesn't know all things"???? If so, this is a challenge to the nature of God, which is a central doctrine, and if this is the case, I'd be sure and sit down with your pastor to clarify his stance on this, and if that's truly what he believes, I'd show him Biblically where he's wrong, and if he still holds to this, I'd look for another church.
However if this was just a Sunday School illustration said in passing perhaps the speaker could have meant something different.
In either case I'd seek clarification on it before breaking fellowship.

 

[dajoshe]

Where does it say that God didn't know??? I didn't read Stephen's sermon, but I did read before and after it, and I didn't see anywhere where it said God didn't know?

A couple things to think about... When Abraham (Genesis 18) pleads for Sodom... He keeps lowering his number and "arguing" with God, "if there are this many, will you spare them?"... Do you think Abraham was changing God's mind, or God didn't know? Or was God teaching Abraham a lesson here?
I think we see this often. When God is seemingly changing his mind or not knowing what'll happen... It's because he's teaching us something.

Just like a parent with your kid, sometimes you know the answer, but you've got to let your kid run their course themselves in order for them to realize you know what you're talking about.


Well, God wouldn't be God if he didn't know everything. He provided Christ before the foundations of the world... So the answer to the sin that hadn't yet happened was already provided for!
I'd also contend, that when you're sovereign over everything, and know exactly what'll happen if you create the world a particular way, does there even exist a line between knowing ahead of time and actually doing it?
This is a big topic of which much debate and discussion will be done.

Personally, I don't believe in "free will". Free being... unrestricted. I don't believe we have a free, unrestricted choice in all that we do. Especially in the area of salvation. Here's my reasons. Many will disagree, and some will think I'm crazy. I would have many years ago as well.
I believe the Bible is clear that we are totally evil, we don't seek God, we are not spiritually discerning. If we truly believe and understand this, a person cannot seek nor ask God to save them. The only way it happens is when God opens our eyes to his truth... The act of salvation is entirely upon Him, not a thing we do. Think back to your salvation process, would you give ANY credit to yourself? "I found Christ"??? Or is the story always "Christ found me"????
So, God does the saving. I also believe the Bible is clear that Christ carries on his work to completion, He won't start a work in you to not finish it. Phil 1:6. So I believe once he saves you, you're saved. I don't believe people can turn away. The people that turn away never had an encounter with Christ in the first place!

So this should help answer your question of people turning away from Him. It should also help out a bit in understanding that NOTHING happens that God hasn't planned to happen.

Now, do I feel like I have the choice to turn left or right at an intersection? Sure. But I also believe that whatever my decision will be, God has planned it to be that way. We just cannot understand this.
I think free will folks try to put God in a box. Free will is a seeming perception of mankind that we try to apply to God, we try to put him on a timeline, apply human perception to him, and I just don't think that's Biblical and I also think that doesn't make for a Sovereign God.
I've described it before as throwing a pile of dirt down. Then, from the top of the pile, draw with your finger a curving channel down the side of the dirt. This is God's plan.
Now pour water at the top of the channel, at the top of the dirt. The water is creation and mankind... It's free by nature, but the water itself doesn't know that it'll obey the plan of God and it'll only go within the channel that's been dug into the dirt. The water doesn't know where it'll end up, but it's free, while at the same time, it's only going where God has ordained it to go.


Much of this may be new concepts to you (maybe not)... I just threw alot of ideas at you at once so feel free to ask for clarification at whatever "clicks".


I don't think it's worth breaking fellowship over from what you described to me.
Are they actually teaching "God doesn't know all things"???? If so, this is a challenge to the nature of God, which is a central doctrine, and if this is the case, I'd be sure and sit down with your pastor to clarify his stance on this, and if that's truly what he believes, I'd show him Biblically where he's wrong, and if he still holds to this, I'd look for another church.
However if this was just a Sunday School illustration said in passing perhaps the speaker could have meant something different.
In either case I'd seek clarification on it before breaking fellowship.

 

[dajoshe]

Where does it say that God didn't know??? I didn't read Stephen's sermon, but I did read before and after it, and I didn't see anywhere where it said God didn't know?

A couple things to think about... When Abraham (Genesis 18) pleads for Sodom... He keeps lowering his number and "arguing" with God, "if there are this many, will you spare them?"... Do you think Abraham was changing God's mind, or God didn't know? Or was God teaching Abraham a lesson here?
I think we see this often. When God is seemingly changing his mind or not knowing what'll happen... It's because he's teaching us something.

Just like a parent with your kid, sometimes you know the answer, but you've got to let your kid run their course themselves in order for them to realize you know what you're talking about.


Well, God wouldn't be God if he didn't know everything. He provided Christ before the foundations of the world... So the answer to the sin that hadn't yet happened was already provided for!
I'd also contend, that when you're sovereign over everything, and know exactly what'll happen if you create the world a particular way, does there even exist a line between knowing ahead of time and actually doing it?
This is a big topic of which much debate and discussion will be done.

Personally, I don't believe in "free will". Free being... unrestricted. I don't believe we have a free, unrestricted choice in all that we do. Especially in the area of salvation. Here's my reasons. Many will disagree, and some will think I'm crazy. I would have many years ago as well.
I believe the Bible is clear that we are totally evil, we don't seek God, we are not spiritually discerning. If we truly believe and understand this, a person cannot seek nor ask God to save them. The only way it happens is when God opens our eyes to his truth... The act of salvation is entirely upon Him, not a thing we do. Think back to your salvation process, would you give ANY credit to yourself? "I found Christ"??? Or is the story always "Christ found me"????
So, God does the saving. I also believe the Bible is clear that Christ carries on his work to completion, He won't start a work in you to not finish it. Phil 1:6. So I believe once he saves you, you're saved. I don't believe people can turn away. The people that turn away never had an encounter with Christ in the first place!

So this should help answer your question of people turning away from Him. It should also help out a bit in understanding that NOTHING happens that God hasn't planned to happen.

Now, do I feel like I have the choice to turn left or right at an intersection? Sure. But I also believe that whatever my decision will be, God has planned it to be that way. We just cannot understand this.
I think free will folks try to put God in a box. Free will is a seeming perception of mankind that we try to apply to God, we try to put him on a timeline, apply human perception to him, and I just don't think that's Biblical and I also think that doesn't make for a Sovereign God.
I've described it before as throwing a pile of dirt down. Then, from the top of the pile, draw with your finger a curving channel down the side of the dirt. This is God's plan.
Now pour water at the top of the channel, at the top of the dirt. The water is creation and mankind... It's free by nature, but the water itself doesn't know that it'll obey the plan of God and it'll only go within the channel that's been dug into the dirt. The water doesn't know where it'll end up, but it's free, while at the same time, it's only going where God has ordained it to go.


Much of this may be new concepts to you (maybe not)... I just threw alot of ideas at you at once so feel free to ask for clarification at whatever "clicks".


I don't think it's worth breaking fellowship over from what you described to me.
Are they actually teaching "God doesn't know all things"???? If so, this is a challenge to the nature of God, which is a central doctrine, and if this is the case, I'd be sure and sit down with your pastor to clarify his stance on this, and if that's truly what he believes, I'd show him Biblically where he's wrong, and if he still holds to this, I'd look for another church.
However if this was just a Sunday School illustration said in passing perhaps the speaker could have meant something different.
In either case I'd seek clarification on it before breaking fellowship.

Thank you for your response. They weren't referring to Stephen's sermon, they were referring to when he was stoned. It was said by our pastor during a Sunday sermon that God did not know this was going to happen. I totally disagreed. That was said in a sermon in our church about 5 or 6 months ago. I brought it up at the following Wednesday night bible study, and expressed my opinion. This has bothered me since, but I let it pass. Now last Wednesday we started Ephesians, and started talking about predestination and the topic got a little off course as it often does, and God's omniscience was brought up again. The pastor and others saying God does not know when certain things are going to happen, like when people are going to turn away from Him. Probable the most upsetting thing mentioned was when I asked if they thought God knew that Lucifer was going to rebel, and they said "no". I know I need to have a sit down with the pastor,and I will, I'm just having a hard time with the whole issue of them doubting God's omniscience. Thanks again

 

[Thankful 1]

This may sound like a foolish question to many of you, but it came up again in my Bible study at church (for the second time). One example mentioned was when Stephen was stoned. It was stated that God didn't know this was going to happen, because if he did he would be condoning murder. Another example that came up was that if a believer turns away from Him, He does not know this is going to happen until it does. God granting us freewill was the reason given for this. I argued that, for whatever reason people do what they do, or whatever happens or is going to happen, God knows it. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that Christians in the church I belong to ( including the pastor, in whom I have great respect} believe that God does not know ALL things that are going to happen. This is making me wonder if I should continue attending this particular church or not. I don't think I can ever be convinced that God does not know All that will happen. Is it me, am I missing something?

For His Glory

Jesus told me he knows everything that is going to happen. Remember God is not limited by time. He has seen everything that happened, and will ever happen.



One time my wife and I asked Jesus why a healing did not happen that he told us would. Jesus told us that the healing happened when my wife’s dad, was healed as a baby. Another words my wife, and my prayers healed my wife’s dad when he was a baby. Jesus knew we would pray for his healing so he healed him.

 

[TexUs]

Thank you for your response. They weren't referring to Stephen's sermon, they were referring to when he was stoned. It was said by our pastor during a Sunday sermon that God did not know this was going to happen. I totally disagreed. That was said in a sermon in our church about 5 or 6 months ago. I brought it up at the following Wednesday night bible study, and expressed my opinion. This has bothered me since, but I let it pass. Now last Wednesday we started Ephesians, and started talking about predestination and the topic got a little off course as it often does, and God's omniscience was brought up again. The pastor and others saying God does not know when certain things are going to happen, like when people are going to turn away from Him. Probable the most upsetting thing mentioned was when I asked if they thought God knew that Lucifer was going to rebel, and they said "no". I know I need to have a sit down with the pastor,and I will, I'm just having a hard time with the whole issue of them doubting God's omniscience. Thanks again

Yes I'd take issue with that then. Such is the paradox of free will

Predestination, what on earth does he take that to mean? How can he predestine something without first knowing about it? It's absolutely clear he predestines us, and it's absolutely clear he carries it out to completion (that's from the Phil reference). So to your pastor I'd say those that turn away never knew Christ anyway, or else Paul would be a liar in Phil.

Read Psalm 139, it deals with the knowledge of God. He knows when we sit, he knows when we rise. He knows what we think. He knows beforehand what we say. Etc.

You'll run into issues all day long coming from a free will standpoint, in my opinion... I did all the time. A shift away from this is a radical shift in theology though and while your pastor might see his error, it's doubtful.
Some people like to put God in a box, I'm not one of them. The Bible says God knows minute details of our lives, it's true. The Bible says he predestines, it's true. The Bible says we don't fully know the mind of God, it's true. We try to understand Him in human terms and that's just folly.

Perhaps another argument you could look at or tell your pastor is... God is not on a timeline. We are. God just exists. The same God that exists today existed back at creation, he IS.
Once more, the whole foreknowledge thing is trying to stick him on a timeline to where we can understand it and... Just doesn't work. The Bible speaks many times of us not knowing- we aren't even meant to know, and yet we try to do this!

 

[dajoshe]

Jesus told me he knows everything that is going to happen. Remember God is not limited by time. He has seen everything that happened, and will ever happen.



One time my wife and I asked Jesus why a healing did not happen that he told us would. Jesus told us that the healing happened when my wife’s dad, was healed as a baby. Another words my wife, and my prayers healed my wife’s dad when he was a baby. Jesus knew we would pray for his healing so he healed him.

Thank you. I believe beyond the shadow of a doubt, that God knows ALL things. Always did, Always will. For believers to think otherwise is something I cannot comprehend at all.

 

[TexUs]

oops post

 

[bigape]

Hello dajoshe and welcome

You said........

“I don't think I can ever be convinced that God does not know All that will happen. Is it me, am I missing something?

Hello
No, you are not missing anything.
--------------------------------------------------
First, your question about those that will fall away from the faith:
(They were NEVER truly saved.)

The Bible says that each of us have a free will, to trust Christ or reject Him:
And at the same time, the Bible says that those of us that are truly saved, are predestined(elected) to be saved.

The way this works, is because of God’s foreknowledge:
He knows the future, and who is truly going to get saved(and will stick to it), and he elects them for salvation.......
Romans 8:29
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

But he doesn’t stop others, from pretending to be saved, but time reveals who they are.
--------------------------------------------------
Now, even though God “does know everything”, from the beginning to the end, sometimes he arranges for things to be done, to test our metal.

This is what happened to Stephen:
(But God did not condone murder, because Stephen wasn’t murdered.)
Stephan died of natural causes, before the first stone hit him........
Acts 7:60
“And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
--------------------------------------------------
My favorite Scripture, on this subject, is............
Genesis 22:11-13
V.11 ¶ And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
V.12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.
V.13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Noone was hurt in all of this, but Abraham was put through a 3 day trial;
And at the end of it, God said...“now I know that thou fearest God”!

But the real purpose of this, was so that God “experience”, what Abraham went through.

 

[dajoshe]

Hello dajoshe and welcome

You said........


Hello
No, you are not missing anything.
--------------------------------------------------
First, your question about those that will fall away from the faith:
(They were NEVER truly saved.)

The Bible says that each of us have a free will, to trust Christ or reject Him:
And at the same time, the Bible says that those of us that are truly saved, are predestined(elected) to be saved.

The way this works, is because of God’s foreknowledge:
He knows the future, and who is truly going to get saved(and will stick to it), and he elects them for salvation.......
Romans 8:29
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

But he doesn’t stop others, from pretending to be saved, but time reveals who they are.
--------------------------------------------------
Now, even though God “does know everything”, from the beginning to the end, sometimes he arranges for things to be done, to test our metal.

This is what happened to Stephen:
(But God did not condone murder, because Stephen wasn’t murdered.)
Stephan died of natural causes, before the first stone hit him........
Acts 7:60
“And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
--------------------------------------------------
My favorite Scripture, on this subject, is............
Genesis 22:11-13
V.11 ¶ And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
V.12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.
V.13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Noone was hurt in all of this, but Abraham was put through a 3 day trial;
And at the end of it, God said...“now I know that thou fearest God”!

But the real purpose of this, was so that God “experience”, what Abraham went through.

Many thanks to you Bigape for responding, and also for pointing out Acts 7:60 where it states "...he fell asleep". Another one of the MANY things I love about the bible, is no matter how many times read it, I very often find little things that I seem to pass right over, that put a whole different light on a given subject. Thanks again for pointing out a few of those to me. I have a feeling bible study this week is going to be very interesting. I thank all of you for responding to this post.

For His Glory

 

[dajoshe]

Hello dajoshe and welcome

You said........


Hello
No, you are not missing anything.
--------------------------------------------------
First, your question about those that will fall away from the faith:
(They were NEVER truly saved.)

The Bible says that each of us have a free will, to trust Christ or reject Him:
And at the same time, the Bible says that those of us that are truly saved, are predestined(elected) to be saved.

The way this works, is because of God’s foreknowledge:
He knows the future, and who is truly going to get saved(and will stick to it), and he elects them for salvation.......
Romans 8:29
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

But he doesn’t stop others, from pretending to be saved, but time reveals who they are.
--------------------------------------------------
Now, even though God “does know everything”, from the beginning to the end, sometimes he arranges for things to be done, to test our metal.

This is what happened to Stephen:
(But God did not condone murder, because Stephen wasn’t murdered.)
Stephan died of natural causes, before the first stone hit him........
Acts 7:60
“And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
--------------------------------------------------
My favorite Scripture, on this subject, is............
Genesis 22:11-13
V.11 ¶ And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
V.12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.
V.13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Noone was hurt in all of this, but Abraham was put through a 3 day trial;
And at the end of it, God said...“now I know that thou fearest God”!

But the real purpose of this, was so that God “experience”, what Abraham went through.

I read Acts 7 again, and it does say in verse 59 "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit". So they were in the process of stoning Stephen when he fell asleep (died), correct? It doesn't appear that he died of natural causes, unless God took him before he died? But either way, not to get away from my original post, God KNEW what was going to happen, is my point.

 

[Selene]

This may sound like a foolish question to many of you, but it came up again in my Bible study at church (for the second time). One example mentioned was when Stephen was stoned. It was stated that God didn't know this was going to happen, because if he did he would be condoning murder. Another example that came up was that if a believer turns away from Him, He does not know this is going to happen until it does. God granting us freewill was the reason given for this. I argued that, for whatever reason people do what they do, or whatever happens or is going to happen, God knows it. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that Christians in the church I belong to ( including the pastor, in whom I have great respect} believe that God does not know ALL things that are going to happen. This is making me wonder if I should continue attending this particular church or not. I don't think I can ever be convinced that God does not know All that will happen. Is it me, am I missing something?

For His Glory

I did not read the rest of the other responses to this first post, but my response is that I believe that God knows everything. How He knows everything and everyone is a mystery.

 

[dajoshe]

I agree

 

[bigape]

Hello dajoshe

You said.....

“I read Acts 7 again, and it does say in verse 59 "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit". So they were in the process of stoning Stephen when he fell asleep (died), correct? It doesn't appear that he died of natural causes, unless God took him before he died? But either way, not to get away from my original post, God KNEW what was going to happen, is my point.”

I agree, that the Bible says that they were stoning Stephen, but this is exactly what the Bible says........
Acts 7:59
“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
--------------------------------------------------
Now if you think about “stoning”, somebody grabs a rock, and tosses it through the air, at the victim....

Stephen had plenty of time to say, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”, while the rocks were in the air.
--------------------------------------------------
This isn’t absolute proof, that Stephen fell asleep before the stones hit him, but it is a compelling argument.

 

[TexUs]

Stephen had plenty of time to say, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”, while the rocks were in the air.

I agree with the assessment that'd been made but... How slow and gentle do you suppose they threw the rocks? From 50 yards away, perhaps?

Go to your backyard, stand 15-20' away from your fence, and throw a stone at it with the velocity like you're trying to kill someone. See if you can utter these words... You might get through "Lord", if you're lucky.

 

[dajoshe]

I agree with the assessment that'd been made but... How slow and gentle do you suppose they threw the rocks? From 50 yards away, perhaps?

Go to your backyard, stand 15-20' away from your fence, and throw a stone at it with the velocity like you're trying to kill someone. See if you can utter these words... You might get through "Lord", if you're lucky.

I agree, it is a compelling argument, but my belief is that God KNEW this was going to happen, or anything else for that matter. God knows beforehand. Like I mentioned before, another instance where some in my bible study said that God didn't know a certain thing was going to happen is when Lucifer fell. This one got to me even more than Stephen. Again, how a true believer does not believe God Almighty does not know everything that is going to happen is something I cannot comprehend at all and is making me think I should be looking elsewhere for bible study.

 

[TexUs]

I agree, it is a compelling argument, but my belief is that God KNEW this was going to happen, or anything else for that matter. God knows beforehand. Like I mentioned before, another instance where some in my bible study said that God didn't know a certain thing was going to happen is when Lucifer fell. This one got to me even more than Stephen. Again, how a true believer does not believe God Almighty does not know everything that is going to happen is something I cannot comprehend at all and is making me think I should be looking elsewhere for bible study.

Bring these questions before your pastor. He might believe God "knows" but choses to limit himself or something, I dunno... It might not be as radical of an idea as what you think it could be. Granted I'd still disagree with even this but I'm just saying, I'd be surprised if someone could universally say God doesn't know everything that'll happen- as it's so contrary to Scripture it's appalling.

Satan's fall was entirely within God's sight as well.
1 Peter 1:20... Before God created, he had already provided the answer of sin to come... How could this be, if he didn't see what Satan and man would do?

 

[dajoshe]

Bring these questions before your pastor. He might believe God "knows" but choses to limit himself or something, I dunno... It might not be as radical of an idea as what you think it could be. Granted I'd still disagree with even this but I'm just saying, I'd be surprised if someone could universally say God doesn't know everything that'll happen- as it's so contrary to Scripture it's appalling.

Satan's fall was entirely within God's sight as well.
1 Peter 1:20... Before God created, he had already provided the answer of sin to come... How could this be, if he didn't see what Satan and man would do?

Our bible study continued tonight where we left off last week, and I presented my same arguments. A lot was said, but again, I was the only one who maintains that God knows everything that is going to happen. A big argument from them was that God, though He may allow evil, does not create evil, therefore He did not know Lucifer was going to rebel. Also, that when a person commits murder, God did not know that person was going to do that ahead of time. They were saying that God knows everything that is going to happen to believers, but He does not know everything that a non believer is going to do. Anyway, I have a lot of scripture searching to do. I am just shocked that they don't believe Almighty God, the Creator of all that is seen and unseen, knows everything that is going to occur to everyone, at any given time. Any further input on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

God Bless

 

[aspen]

This may sound like a foolish question to many of you, but it came up again in my Bible study at church (for the second time). One example mentioned was when Stephen was stoned. It was stated that God didn't know this was going to happen, because if he did he would be condoning murder. Another example that came up was that if a believer turns away from Him, He does not know this is going to happen until it does. God granting us freewill was the reason given for this. I argued that, for whatever reason people do what they do, or whatever happens or is going to happen, God knows it. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that Christians in the church I belong to ( including the pastor, in whom I have great respect} believe that God does not know ALL things that are going to happen. This is making me wonder if I should continue attending this particular church or not. I don't think I can ever be convinced that God does not know All that will happen. Is it me, am I missing something?

For His Glory

Jesus was in a humbled state in human form. He was 100% God, but He was also 100% man. Being both man and God is limiting. His humanity was not able to comprehend His divinity - which was great because He had to rely on God the Father for everything - a perfect example for us. Getting caught up on what Jesus was and wasn't able to know when He was on Earth is missing the point and futile because we will never know what it was like for him. Instead we need to look at His example of dependence on His Father.

 

[Thankful 1]

Jesus was in a humbled state in human form. He was 100% God, but He was also 100% man. Being both man and God is limiting. His humanity was not able to comprehend His divinity - which was great because He had to rely on God the Father for everything - a perfect example for us. Getting caught up on what Jesus was and wasn't able to know when He was on Earth is missing the point and futile because we will never know what it was like for him. Instead we need to look at His example of dependence on His Father.

I believe you all would be well advised to adhere to what Jesus once told me. He said audibly: “Bob! Stop trying to figure me out. Just follow me.”





He also told me he is God.