Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Cooper]

Jesus and Paul both taught eternal security of the one now found in Christ!

Both Paul and Jesus warned of falling away.

 

[JesusFan1]

Both Paul and Jesus warned of falling away.

No, as Jesus stated that all given to Him by the father would be saved period!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Yall will find robert derrick is quite the heretic.

 

[JesusFan1]

Yall will find robert derrick is quite the heretic.

Does he hold to saved by the law?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you read what Calvin stated again, you'll find that it's GOD that made the person THINK they were saved...

Another good one for the hopper of 'lies taught for doctrine of Christ'.

Which is why I don't read Calvin nor care one bit what He thinks, except to learn the lies of Calvin wrested from Scripture, and so more perfectly know the truth of the doctrine of Christ, by refuting them with Scripture.

And so, please continue on, since you are doing such a wonderful job, that I don't have to read Calvin's rubbish for myself: I have you instead. Thanks.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God.

Think what you and Calvin want to think. No Scripture speaks of them that only thought they believed.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

The foolish wisdom of OSAS is self evident: OSAS doesn't worship God as God, because they do not obey His law as God's law indeed. Not only do they not think they obey Him accordingly, they loudly proclaim how they don't...because they have been told they can't.

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

OSAS changes the incorruptible blood of the Lamb, that washes away all unrighteousness from the soul, into the corruptible blood of bulls and goats, that only covers sins, so that their souls can't be judged by God for going on still in their unrighteous sins.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

God lets self-confessed and willing sinners do exactly what they want, especially when they change the truth of the blood of the Lamb into the lie of a bull or goat, by worshipping creature Calvin's thinking more than Creator Christ's Scriptures.

Then you say the person was being saved but was not being saved at all and then being saved by another Christ.
I've never even heard this before.

Of course not, because that would be heresy, since you think like Calvin more than like Scripture. And since you only believe Calvin for excuse to sin, which is not excused by God, then you reject the truth that warns you not to do what you like to think: being unconditionally eternally secure in your salvation, with sins and trespasses ongoing unto death.

The persons were doing exactly what God predestinated them to do.

Sinners are indeed robotic slaves to their sins, but not preprogrammed by God before conception. Only programmed by ministers of corruption, like Calvin: you are doing exactly what your christ Calvin predestinated you to do, not Jesus Christ the true God.

They have NOTHING to do with their salvation...

Then their salvation has nothing to do with their souls.

so your comments are mute.

When falling on deaf ears, certainly, thus condemning yourself by your own words:

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

OSAS will not allow the truth of being washed clean of their sins, because they don't want to be healed of them by the blood of the Lamb, but rather only partially healed, with the daubing of the blood of a bull or goat.

OSAS is right at home with the OT relationship of carnal minded men with God. Too bad they have come too late to be OT sinners.

Now all men are commanded everywhere to repent, because there is no winking upon sin by God anymore, since the NT blood of Jesus wash shed for all sins on the cross.

Robert, there's some mistake.
I thought YOU were agreeing with Calvinism.
That soteriology is not even biblical.
And I don't believe OSAS is biblical either.
Sorry I caused you to write so much.
To clarify:
Calvinism is heretical.
OSAS is not biblical.

 

[GodsGrace]

you definitely misunderstand calvinism. We dont think we’re superior if chosen. And we are very humble i find. One of the interesting things about the topic of calvinism that intrigues me, is why are people so against it?

What about Calvinism do you think I don't understand?

As to why so many are against it?
Because it's not orthodox Christianity,,,it's heretical.
Not only are the doctrine incorrect, they change the nature of God. I don't think God is too happy about that.

I’m an oddity around here. I believe that calvinism is Biblical. I believe calvin furthered our understanding of salvation, although he did write about much more. But i’m also, currently, not of the elect. I’m not saved. But calvinism has shown me to not be saved. Im not deceived like so many are. My view of who is part of the elect is while i’m not today, my turn could come the next day, or next hour. We dont know who is part of the elect, and so we never judge others.

I believe Calvin was an extremely intellectual person. Unfortunately, he took his ideas from Augustine of Hippo who came to Christianity after being a Manecean for 10 years, this was a gnostic sect. It was he that believed in predestination and the absence of free will in man. If you've read Calvin you'll know that he mentioned Augustine many times. He lived in the 400s AD.
These ideas were not otherwise present in early christianity. It wasn't until Calvin in the 1600s that they were brought to life again.

I wonder what makes you think you're not saved.
Usually when a person is interested in things of God, they most probably are saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus and Paul both taught eternal security of the one now found in Christ!

Jesus and Paul did not teach OSAS.
We can, however, believe in eternal security IF
we are NOW found in Christ, as you stayed.
If we endure till the end, we will be saved.
Matthew 24:13

Jesus said that BTW.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I wonder what makes you think you're not saved.
Usually when a person is interested in things of God, they most probably are saved.

and this proves how little you really know about calvinism. The majority of so called “christians” arent saved. And BTW, OSAS, also called perseverance of the saints is the P part of tulip, calvinism.

 

[JesusFan1]

Robert, there's some mistake.
I thought YOU were agreeing with Calvinism.
That soteriology is not even biblical.
And I don't believe OSAS is biblical either.
Sorry I caused you to write so much.
To clarify:
Calvinism is heretical.
OSAS is not biblical.

Calvinism in regards to Salvation proper best explained how God saved us!

 

[JesusFan1]

What about Calvinism do you think I don't understand?

As to why so many are against it?
Because it's not orthodox Christianity,,,it's heretical.
Not only are the doctrine incorrect, they change the nature of God. I don't think God is too happy about that.


I believe Calvin was an extremely intellectual person. Unfortunately, he took his ideas from Augustine of Hippo who came to Christianity after being a Manecean for 10 years, this was a gnostic sect. It was he that believed in predestination and the absence of free will in man. If you've read Calvin you'll know that he mentioned Augustine many times. He lived in the 400s AD.
These ideas were not otherwise present in early christianity. It wasn't until Calvin in the 1600s that they were brought to life again.

I wonder what makes you think you're not saved.
Usually when a person is interested in things of God, they most probably are saved.

Many who are against Calvinism are really ignorant to what we believe and others hate that we teach and hold that salvation is of the Lord fully, and that can do nothing to aid him to save us!

 

[JesusFan1]

Jesus and Paul did not teach OSAS.
We can, however, believe in eternal security IF
we are NOW found in Christ, as you stayed.
If we endure till the end, we will be saved.
Matthew 24:13

Jesus said that BTW.

Those who endure shall be the saved, as they cannot undo what God has done for them!

 

[JesusFan1]

and this proves how little you really know about calvinism. The majority of so called “christians” arent saved. And BTW, OSAS, also called perseverance of the saints is the P part of tulip, calvinism.

We shall endure into death, as the trinity themselves have been involved in our salvation, Father sent the Son, Jesus died for us and rose again, and the Holy Spirit regenerated and saved and sealed us.

 

[PinSeeker]

If you read what Calvin stated again, you'll find that it's GOD that made the person THINK they were saved...
Absolutely not. Calvin did not say that in any form or fashion, and God did no such thing. That would be attributable only to themselves, but somebody ~ Satan ~ probably helped that deception along... But God did make each one to fulfill the purpose that He set for them when He made them. And still does.

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Yes, unfortunately, some do this. But those who do this are not members of God's elect. All would do this, because of their nature, but thanks be to God, He, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loves His elect, even when they are dead in their trespasses, makes them alive together with Christ ~ by grace they are saved ~ and raises them up (each at his appointed time) and seats them with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward them in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2). According to His great mercy, He causes them to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for them, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, and in this they rejoice (1 Peter 1). This is the remnant He has chosen for Himself, His elect.

Then you say the person was being saved but was not being saved at all and then being saved by another Christ.
I've never even heard this before.
Yeah, me either. Because that's just ridiculous. I guess maybe that's what people who are not thinking are thinking.

The persons were doing exactly what God predestinated them to do.
Well, they're fulfilling the purpose for which God made them. But that's quite different than "doing what they were predestined..." (not "predestinated," as that's not a word) ..."to do." To say they were predestined to sin would be to say that God is responsible for their sin, the author of sin, and that's most assuredly not the case. Again, though, initially, everyone ~ every person ~ is inclined toward sin and away from God; this is the natural human condition, the chief result of the fall of Adam.

OSAS is right at home with the OT relationship of carnal minded men with God.
Well, no, this kind of assertion would only be true for folks we call legalists, very Pharisaical in their "thinking," people who think it depends on themselves to maintain their salvation. Yes, we are to make our calling and election sure, but thanks be to God, it is He Who is at work in us to ensure this happens (Philippians 2:12-13).

Now all men are commanded everywhere to repent...
Absolutely. This is the outward call of the Gospel.

...because there is no winking upon sin by God anymore, since the NT blood of Jesus wash shed for all sins on the cross.
There never was any winking upon sin by God, even in the OT. God (and Jesus, of course) is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Grace and peace to all!

 

[GodsGrace]

and this proves how little you really know about calvinism. The majority of so called “christians” arent saved. And BTW, OSAS, also called perseverance of the saints is the P part of tulip, calvinism.

I had asked you what you think I don't know about calvinism.
You saying that I don't does not make it so.
If you want to have an intelligent conversation I'm up for it.
Otherwise, it's a waste of time.

BTW I know what the P stands for.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many who are against Calvinism are really ignorant to what we believe and others hate that we teach and hold that salvation is of the Lord fully, and that can do nothing to aid him to save us!

I'm not ignorant to what you believe.
Every Christian believes salvation is of the Lord.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those who endure shall be the saved, as they cannot undo what God has done for them!

Do you have some scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you read what Calvin stated again, you'll find that it's GOD that made the person THINK they were saved...
Absolutely not. Calvin did not say that in any form or fashion, and God did no such thing. That would be attributable only to themselves, but somebody ~ Satan ~ probably helped that deception along... But God did make each one to fulfill the purpose that He set for them when He made them. And still does.

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Yes, unfortunately, some do this. But those who do this are not members of God's elect. All would do this, because of their nature, but thanks be to God, He, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loves His elect, even when they are dead in their trespasses, makes them alive together with Christ ~ by grace they are saved ~ and raises them up (each at his appointed time) and seats them with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward them in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2). According to His great mercy, He causes them to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for them, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, and in this they rejoice (1 Peter 1). This is the remnant He has chosen for Himself, His elect.

Then you say the person was being saved but was not being saved at all and then being saved by another Christ.
I've never even heard this before.
Yeah, me either. Because that's just ridiculous. I guess maybe that's what people who are not thinking are thinking.

The persons were doing exactly what God predestinated them to do.
Well, they're fulfilling the purpose for which God made them. But that's quite different than "doing what they were predestined..." (not "predestinated," as that's not a word) ..."to do." To say they were predestined to sin would be to say that God is responsible for their sin, the author of sin, and that's most assuredly not the case. Again, though, initially, everyone ~ every person ~ is inclined toward sin and away from God; this is the natural human condition, the chief result of the fall of Adam.

OSAS is right at home with the OT relationship of carnal minded men with God.
Well, no, this kind of assertion would only be true for folks we call legalists, very Pharisaical in their "thinking," people who think it depends on themselves to maintain their salvation. Yes, we are to make our calling and election sure, but thanks be to God, it is He Who is at work in us to ensure this happens (Philippians 2:12-13).

Now all men are commanded everywhere to repent...
Absolutely. This is the outward call of the Gospel.

...because there is no winking upon sin by God anymore, since the NT blood of Jesus wash shed for all sins on the cross.
There never was any winking upon sin by God, even in the OT. God (and Jesus, of course) is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Grace and peace to all!

I think you're writing to me.
You didn't tag me.

Predestinated is the word calvinists use.
Check it out.

I will reply to the above in the morning.
Just saw it.

 

[JesusFan1]

Do you have some scripture?

Paul stated, under Holy Spirit inspiration, sealed by Holy Spirit until day of redemption of the body!

 

[JesusFan1]

I'm not ignorant to what you believe.
Every Christian believes salvation is of the Lord.

Yes, but some see them as co assist God to save them, by partaking of enough Sacraments, or doing enough good works, be water baptized etc!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Yes, but some see them as co assist God to save them, by partaking of enough Sacraments, or doing enough good works, be water baptized etc!

Precious friend, kinda like this, huh?:

At the airport, one "sees the airplane," and believes [intellectually, in the mind]
"Yes, it will get one to one's destination," BUT, until one Actually "believes 100%
with ALL one's heart," and gets On board, "TRUSTING 'one's LIFE' 100% into
the pilot's hands, one WILL NOT "ARRIVE at one's destination," Correct?

So, the "God assisters" for salvation really think that they "can make a deal
with the pilot," and Somehow assist him, helping him fly to the destination,
instead of just humbly SUBMITTING to "taking one's seat"???

Just wondering IF this "kind of thinking (belief)" is Actually UNbelief and Denial of:

God's Simple Will! and God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!