Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Cassandra]

When Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer, He said this in it:

"
Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

So we are still sinning, even after we've been saved, and we must ask for forgiveness. If it didn't matter, He wouldn't have added it.

 

[atpollard]

I think I was predestined not to believe in Calvinism.

Good for you!
John Wesley and Billy Graham both accomplished great things while not believing in “Calvinism”.
What I wonder is “Do you know what Calvinism actually teaches?” … both John Wesley and Billy Graham did, so they could know what it was that they were rejecting. Most of the anti-OSAS rants on this topic indicate that they have no clue what “Calvinism” actually teaches.

 

[atpollard]

All facts.....what wrong? The Truth hurts! LOL It don't make any sense....it is only for idiots.....blasphemers of God

I told you what was wrong: you presented all opinions with no scripture to back any of it up, so all your post really says is “You hate Calvinism”.

So what if you hate Calvinism.
What are the odds you even know what it actually teaches?
Nothing in your post suggests that you do.

 

[Grailhunter]

I told you what was wrong: you presented all opinions with no scripture to back any of it up, so all your post really says is “You hate Calvinism”.

Scripture!? This is all about what is not scripture. How am I going to give a scripture about what is not there....that is the point.
Calvinism is a religion of non-biblical terms and clichés that have the intent to deceive and blaspheme God.
What are you going to say to Christ on Judgment day when He ask why you are blaspheming God....LOL....I know, you don't have to worry, your mouth is controlled by God.

No I don't hate anything. Just one who stands against evil!

 

[atpollard]

Scripture!? This is all about what is not scripture. How am I going to give a scripture about what is not there....that is the point.
Calvinism is a religion of non-biblical terms and clichés that have the intent to deceive and blaspheme God.
What are going to say to Christ on Judgment day when He ask why you are blaspheming God....LOL....I know, you don't have to worry, your mouth is controlled by God.

No I don't hate anything. Just one who stands against evil!

As I stated, NOTHING in your post even hints that you know what Calvinism actually teaches. Just bold empty claims that Calvinism is evil.

Let’s start with the actual title of this topic, the (P) of TULIP.

You argue “Perseverance of the Saints” is a non-biblical term, and it is a non-biblical term. So is “Holy Bible” and “Trinity”, but that does not make the terms “evil”.

So what does Calvinism teach “Perseverance of the Saints” means:

From THE WESTMINSTER SHORTER CATECHISM

Q. 36. What are the benefits which in this life do accompany or flow
from justification, adoption, and sanctification?

A. The benefits which in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption, and sanctification, are, assurance of God’s love [a], peace of conscience , joy in the Holy Ghost [c], increase of grace [d], and perseverance therein to the end [e].

[a]. Rom. 5:5
. Rom. 5:1
[c]. Rom. 14:17
[d]. 2 Pet. 3:18
[e]. Phil. 1:6; 1 Pet. 1:5​

The phrase “perseverance therein to the end” is defined by the Scripture Verses:

Philippians 1:6 “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”

1 Peter 1:5 “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

So the Calvinist doctrine “Perseverance of the saints” is the belief that one of the benefits in this life that accompanies or flows from “justification, adoption, and sanctification” (all of which ARE Biblical words) is that “he which hath begun” (that is God) “a good work in you” (that ‘good work’ is our salvation) “will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (ie. God will finish what God has started) and we (the saints) “are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (nothing less than the power of God “keeps” us - through faith and unto salvation).

Simply put, Calvinists believe what the Bible says … that our salvation is because of the power of God rather than the will of man. That is Perseverance of the Saints (the “P” in TULIP).

Feel free to explain how that is an evil, non-biblical teaching (now that you know what Calvinism actually teaches about at least one point of Sotierology.)

 

[Grailhunter]

Perseverance of the Saints

"Perseverance of the Saints" Again the point of false beliefs that uses phrases that are not in the Bible. Little adjustments to deceive and promote a religion that blasphemes God. The words perseverance and saints appear in the scriptures but they do not define what Calvinism suggests....non-biblical slogans to promote a non-biblical religion.
What lie does the Calvinist promote with the slogan "Perseverance of the Saints" ....According to Calvinists, since God has drawn the elect to faith in Christ by regenerating their hearts and convincing them of their sins, and thus saving their souls by his own work and power, it naturally follows that they will be kept by the same power to the end.

It all goes hand in hand with an aspect of false religions / beliefs ...OSAS....We go to heaven no matter what we do! Ha ha! Its the history of men that want to raise themselves above others....look at me! I am an elect! I am special! It is all laughable....but God will have the last laugh!

Calvinism has more deceptive slogans than any other Christian religion. Any theologian worth his or her salt would just laugh at you.

 

[TEXBOW]

Good for you!
John Wesley and Billy Graham both accomplished great things while not believing in “Calvinism”.
What I wonder is “Do you know what Calvinism actually teaches?” … both John Wesley and Billy Graham did, so they could know what it was that they were rejecting. Most of the anti-OSAS rants on this topic indicate that they have no clue what “Calvinism” actually teaches.

I've come across different forms or depths of Calvinism and they all ask the same question you ask " do you actually know what Calvinism is". I would I think so but I might come across a new version that I'm not aware of. My primary issue is that I do not agree with the foundational definitions the majority of Calvinist stand upon to interpret all Calvinistic doctrine. For example Elect and Predestined. I believe that these tags are to be applied to those who have come to salvation but not before salvation. Most Calvinist I've talked with place those tags upon those even before they were born. I think Predestined in most cases is referencing those in the body of Christ, those predestined for glorification, conformed to Christ's image, our inheritance, adoption, to be justified, for redemption. We are not predestinated from creation but from salvation to rapture.

TULIP, T, TU, TUL, TULI, P, Calvin's are varied. Hard to keep up with them.

 

[Scott Downey]

"Perseverance of the Saints" Again the point of false beliefs that uses phrases that are not in the Bible. Little adjustments to deceive and promote a religion that blasphemes God. The words perseverance and saints appear in the scriptures but they do not define what Calvinism suggests....non-biblical slogans to promote a non-biblical religion.
What lie does the Calvinist promote with the slogan "Perseverance of the Saints" ....According to Calvinists, since God has drawn the elect to faith in Christ by regenerating their hearts and convincing them of their sins, and thus saving their souls by his own work and power, it naturally follows that they will be kept by the same power to the end.

It all goes hand in hand with an aspect of false religions / beliefs ...OSAS....We go to heaven no matter what we do! Ha ha! Its the history of men that want to raise themselves above others....look at me! I am an elect! I am special! It is all laughable....but God will have the last laugh!

Calvinism has more deceptive slogans than any other Christian religion. Any theologian worth his or her salt would just laugh at you.

....According to scripture, since God has drawn the elect to faith in Christ by regenerating their hearts and convincing them of their sins, and thus saving their souls by his own work and power, it naturally follows that they will be kept by the same power to the end.

Just as Peter says, don't be faithless, but believe!

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Grailhunter]

....According to scripture, since God has drawn the elect to faith in Christ by regenerating their hearts and convincing them of their sins, and thus saving their souls by his own work and power, it naturally follows that they will be kept by the same power to the end.

Just as Peter says, don't be faithless, but believe!

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

All denominations quote scriptures...
A lot of different denominations.....
What makes Calvinists different? Calvinism is a theological orientation, not a denomination or organization. The Puritans were Calvinist. Presbyterians descend from Scottish Calvinists. Many early Baptists were Calvinist. Many established denominations of today consider Calvinist as infiltrators.

Why don't they start their own churches? Playing on the ignorance of people? The sign out front says Baptist but inside the Calvinist lurk. The people that enter are not told that this church does not believe in free-will and all Christians are fleshy robots. The sign might say Church of God but the church is full of Calvinists awaiting unsuspecting people seeking a true religion.

There are a lot of denominations to choose from, why do people choose religions like Calvinism or Jehovah's Witnesses that demean God and blaspheme Christ and God the Father. I have had run ins with some Calvinists and some Jehovah's Witnesses but I also know some nice Calvinists and Jehovah's Witnesses. Nice and good people in these religions that consider themselves Christians, but they calmly blaspheme God and deny the deity of Christ.

Are there several reasons why people congregate to these kind of religions.....
A lot of people do not research their choices of religions....some people are recruited by people that go door to door....some it is a matter of family or a close church. A lot of new Christians are not well versed on theological terms....They go to a church and the topic of no free-will may not come up for a while and a lot are not going to understand what that means. That they are living their life as biological robots and all of reality is a preplanned play that is controlled by God down to snowflakes and God has already determined if they are going to heaven or hell and there is no escape. These churches where Calvinists hide behind a sign do not make it clear what they believe. How many feel violated once they realize the truth.

Again, what kind of person would come up with religions like Calvinism and Jehovah's Witnesses? Why would someone work to damn themselves and recruit others to damn themselves. It is not like a difference of opinion on rapture or the book of Revelation....at the root of their beliefs they demean God....this is what makes them different than other Christian beliefs....and they are proud of it and they are determined to do it.

I am not sure that it is a matter of religious choice. It think it is something that phycologists should study. Are they part of these religions because they want to damn themselves and others? Do they have a persecution complex? Do they just want to be different? A lot of times when people get into witchcraft, it is just about being different.

During Covid, at times I will go to different churches and take pictures of the parking lots and talk to the people, just to show that we never stopped going to church around here. Well I was at one Baptist Church and I was talking to people in the parking lot as they came out of church. We were talking about Covid and all that and I was curious so I asked them if they had any Calvinists in the congregation. They said they were all Calvinists.

So I asked, So you believe you are robots under God's control? None of them believed they were under anybody's control. So you believe you can make choices? I asked. Or course they answered. So I pointed at a squirrel running a crossed the parking lot....Does that squirrel have free will? They laughed...they were not sure except to say that God had no interest in controlling squirrels. So I said, what about you? Does God control you? They all said, no. One of the ladies said that the Holy Spirit spoke to her. I said, Ok, who does God control? Everyone of them thought it was a silly question. Then one of the men said, as he laughed, If God was controlling people, there would be a lot less sin in the world.

This congregation had no idea what the doctrine of Calvinism was about, and I think they are the norm.

 

[TEXBOW]

All denominations quote scriptures...
A lot of different denominations.....
What makes Calvinists different? Calvinism is a theological orientation, not a denomination or organization. The Puritans were Calvinist. Presbyterians descend from Scottish Calvinists. Many early Baptists were Calvinist. Many established denominations of today consider Calvinist as infiltrators.

Why don't they start their own churches? Playing on the ignorance of people? The sign out front says Baptist but inside the Calvinist lurk. The people that enter are not told that this church does not believe in free-will and all Christians are fleshy robots. The sign might say Church of God but the church is full of Calvinists awaiting unsuspecting people seeking a true religion.

There are a lot of denominations to choose from, why do people choose religions like Calvinism or Jehovah's Witnesses that demean God and blasphemy Christ and God the Father. I have had run ins with some Calvinists and some Jehovah's Witnesses but I also know some nice Calvinists and Jehovah's Witnesses. Nice and good people in these religions that consider themselves Christians, but they calmly blaspheme God and deny the deity of Christ.

Are there several reasons why people congregate to these kind of religions.....
A lot of people do not research their choices of religions....some people are recruited by people that go door to door....some it is a matter of family or a close church. A lot of new Christians are not well versed on theological terms....They go to a church and the topic of no free-will may not come up for a while and a lot are not going to understand what that means. That they are living their life as biological robots and all of reality is a preplanned play that is controlled by God down to snowflakes and God has already determined if they are going to heaven or hell. These churches where Calvinists hide behind a sign do not make it clear what they believe. How many feel violated once they realize the truth.

Again, what kind of person would come up with religions like Calvinism and Jehovah's Witnesses? Why would someone work to damn themselves and recruit others to damn themselves. It is not like a difference of opinion on rapture or the book of Revelation....at the root of their beliefs they demean God....this is what makes them different than other Christian beliefs....and they are proud of it and they are determined to do it.

I am not sure that it is a matter of religious choice. It think it is something that phycologists should study. Are they part of these religions because they want to damn themselves and others? Do they have a persecution complex? Do they just want to be different? A lot of times when people get into witchcraft, it is just about being different.

During Covid, at times I will go to different churches and take pictures of the parking lots and talk to the people, just to show that we never stopped going to church around here. Well I was at one Baptist Church and I was talking to people in the parking lot as they came out of church. We were talking about Covid and all that and I was curious so I asked them if they had any Calvinists in the congregation. They said they were all Calvinists.

So I asked, So you believe you are robots under God's control? None of them believed they were under anybody's control. So you believe you can make choices? I asked. Or course they answered. So I pointed at a squirrel running a crossed the parking lot....Does that squirrel have free will? They laughed...they were not sure except to say that God had no interest in controlling squirrels. So I said, what about you? Does God control you? They all said, no. One of the ladies said that the Holy Spirit spoke to her. I said, Ok, who does God control? Everyone of them thought it was a silly question. Then one of the men said, as he laughed, If God was controlling people, there would be a lot less sin in the world.

This congregation had no idea what the doctrine of Calvinism was about, and I think they are the norm.

Here in Texas, I have found that Churches that call themselves Bible Churches are strong Calvinists. Maybe just a Houston thing but not sure.

 

[robert derrick]

Do you commit any sins in your daily life today? Pride, lust, hate or any sin.

OSAS:

Yes! Of course! Are you kidding me??

Do Born Again Christians ever need to seek forgiveness in our prayers?

OSAS:

No! Of course not! All those sins have already been forgiven!!

Some people just don't get it and have proper faith!

 

[robert derrick]

Since there is no such thing as 'saved' or godly sinners in Scripture, and there are them that profess Christ and are known as a Christian, but in ungodly sin they deny Him, then the most accurate description for OSAS Christians is unsaved Christians. Christians not being saved unto the end.

Christians being saved are committed to going to sin no more.

Christians not being saved are committed to going to sin some more.

It's all about the attitude, and which faith to hold to. The faith of Jesus that saves unto the end is the former, and the faith of OSAS that never reaches the end is the latter:

That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments: And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.

 

[White Dog]

Since there is no such thing as 'saved' or godly sinners in Scripture, and there are them that profess Christ and are known as a Christian, but in ungodly sin they deny Him, then the most accurate description for OSAS Christians is unsaved Christians. Christians not being saved unto the end.

Christians being saved are committed to going to sin no more.

Christians not being saved are committed to going to sin some more.

It's all about the attitude, and which faith to hold to. The faith of Jesus that saves unto the end is the former, and the faith of OSAS that never reaches the end is the latter:

That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments: And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.

What you say about Christians committed to going to sin no more is truth, but here is what happens. Saints set their minds on not giving into temptation and so they give their best effort to do so. Unfortunately, their flesh gets in the way, discouragement sets in, and for many true saints, they end up grasping at a belief that since they are saved and sin seems unavoidable, holiness is certainly a good goal, but an unattainable one and therefore since they always fail, thank God there is grace.

You see, we have not been taught the HOW of holiness. So, we go to services, we tithe, we pray, we fast, we memorize scriptures, we avoid triggers for whatever sin is our particular Achilles Heel sin. Most fail outright. But if we are one of those who seem to have a measure of outward success, then we get infected with pride and get a legalistic spirit, never seeing we have simply swapped one sin for another.

We do not understand that temptation is NOT sin. Yielding to it is. How in the world can someone count it all joy when they fall into diverse temptations if when they do, they give in no matter how hard they try. We are told that we are to not only bring all our sinful actions under control, but to also bring EVERY THOUGHT into submission to Christ. You know what I say to that? Good luck,lol.

In these last days, however, God is beginning to open up the eyes of those who truly hunger and thirst for righteousness, who long to please God with their lives, who desire to bring forth fruits to God to testify to the world that Christ can indeed set a man "free indeed" as HE defined it, free from committing sin! Is it possible? Absolutely. But here is the deal. Those who are going to find it are those who first admit they need it more than their next breath.

We are about to be amazed at how deep grace really is, and discover that God has promised to not only free us from the penalty of our sin, but literally from the power of it.

A breaking must occur. As the power of darkness increases in these last days, God will move mountains to break up our fallow ground and bring us to our knees, believing that God not only asks us to believe that He is, but also that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, refusing anything less than overcoming victory.

blessings,

White Dog

 

[robert derrick]

What you say about Christians committed to going to sin no more is truth, but here is what happens. Saints set their minds on not giving into temptation and so they give their best effort to do so. Unfortunately, their flesh gets in the way, discouragement sets in, and for many true saints, they end up grasping at a belief that since they are saved and sin seems unavoidable, holiness is certainly a good goal, but an unattainable one and therefore since they always fail, thank God there is grace.

You see, we have not been taught the HOW of holiness. So, we go to services, we tithe, we pray, we fast, we memorize scriptures, we avoid triggers for whatever sin is our particular Achilles Heel sin. Most fail outright. But if we are one of those who seem to have a measure of outward success, then we get infected with pride and get a legalistic spirit, never seeing we have simply swapped one sin for another.

We do not understand that temptation is NOT sin. Yielding to it is. How in the world can someone count it all joy when they fall into diverse temptations if when they do, they give in no matter how hard they try. We are told that we are to not only bring all our sinful actions under control, but to also bring EVERY THOUGHT into submission to Christ. You know what I say to that? Good luck,lol.

In these last days, however, God is beginning to open up the eyes of those who truly hunger and thirst for righteousness, who long to please God with their lives, who desire to bring forth fruits to God to testify to the world that Christ can indeed set a man "free indeed" as HE defined it, free from committing sin! Is it possible? Absolutely. But here is the deal. Those who are going to find it are those who first admit they need it more than their next breath.

We are about to be amazed at how deep grace really is, and discover that God has promised to not only free us from the penalty of our sin, but literally from the power of it.

A breaking must occur. As the power of darkness increases in these last days, God will move mountains to break up our fallow ground and bring us to our knees, believing that God not only asks us to believe that He is, but also that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, refusing anything less than overcoming victory.

blessings,

White Dog

Your testimony of Jesus is mine. It all comes down to the attitude of an upright heart and steadfast spirit to fight the good fight of faith where it begins: temptation.

As you say, temptation is not the sin, but being defeated by it.

When Scripture speaks of 'having no sin', it is not commanding Christian to declare they are sinners for life, but rather is to denounce them who think they have arrived, and no more have any temptation of the flesh to battle.

I would only tweak your teaching here a little:

We are told that we are to not only bring all our sinful actions under control, but to also bring EVERY THOUGHT into submission to Christ. You know what I say to that? Good luck,lol.

When we are told by Scripture to do something in the power of Christ, God means it. We don't mock it, but rather seek to obey it with His grace to help do so, and not give up until victory comes, and we see the end of His faith to be made very free indeed.

Bringing every thought into submission to the law of Christ is in fact the way in which the law of Christ will reign over our mortal bodies, because we will gain the victory and have the mind of Christ, which refuses all sin knocking at the door as DOA.

That is where my testimony went from double mindedness with sins of the flesh from time to time, to the present state of not I, but Christ that liveth in me doeth these things first in the heart and mind, and then easily with the body.

Start fighting that good fight where it begins, with tempting thoughts trying to take hold in the mind and plant lust in the heart, and you too will see the salvation of the Lord promised to them that love Him with all the heart and mind and soul and strength.

When mockers scornfully demand if I have sinned in my mind today, I can honestly say by the grace of God I have not. And I do know whereof I speak, because I do know where I came from. They could do the same in Christ Jesus, but they are infected with a devilish doctrine of sin and covenant with death, that I never accepted: The soul which sinneth it shall not die, if covered by grace.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.

 

[atpollard]

All denominations quote scriptures...

Clearly, you belong to NO denomination then ...

 

[robert derrick]

Ok, so taking several things together, I believe I have the cost to count for OSAS salvation.
1. They can celebrate their unconditional grace.
2. They do not enjoy their sins as much, and even come to 'hate' them while doing them.
3. But they do learn to celebrate their grace more and more.

Therefore, the cost of OSAS salvation is not personal sins for righteousness of God, but rather is personally enjoying their sins less and less while personally celebrating their grace more and more.

A sort of emotional twist on the house of Saul decreasing more and more, while the house of David increasing more and more.

The sins never end, but the enjoyment of them fades. And they should never end, lest they become proud like a saint, which would anger their grace, so that their celebration becomes less and less exciting.

Cool. That must be some mighty fine celebratin' goin' on.

"Ceeeeeelebrate that grace!! C'mon!!!"

 

[atpollard]

Ok, so taking several things together, I believe I have the cost to count for OSAS salvation.
1. They can celebrate their unconditional grace.
2. They do not enjoy their sins as much, and even come to 'hate' them while doing them.
3. But they do learn to celebrate their grace more and more.

Therefore, the cost of OSAS salvation is not personal sins for righteousness of God, but rather is personally enjoying their sins less and less while personally celebrating their grace more and more.

A sort of emotional twist on the house of Saul decreasing more and more, while the house of David increasing more and more.

The sins never end, but the enjoyment of them fades. And they should never end, lest they become proud like a saint, which would anger their grace, so that their celebration becomes less and less exciting.

Cool. That must be some mighty fine celebratin' goin' on.

"Ceeeeeelebrate that grace!! C'mon!!!"

Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." [Luke 18:9-14 NKJV]​

“If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”

 

[White Dog]

Your testimony of Jesus is mine. It all comes down to the attitude of an upright heart and steadfast spirit to fight the good fight of faith where it begins: temptation.

As you say, temptation is not the sin, but being defeated by it.

When Scripture speaks of 'having no sin', it is not commanding Christian to declare they are sinners for life, but rather is to denounce them who think they have arrived, and no more have any temptation of the flesh to battle.

I would only tweak your teaching here a little:

We are told that we are to not only bring all our sinful actions under control, but to also bring EVERY THOUGHT into submission to Christ. You know what I say to that? Good luck,lol.

When we are told by Scripture to do something in the power of Christ, God means it. We don't mock it, but rather seek to obey it with His grace to help do so, and not give up until victory comes, and we see the end of His faith to be made very free indeed.

Bringing every thought into submission to the law of Christ is in fact the way in which the law of Christ will reign over our mortal bodies, because we will gain the victory and have the mind of Christ, which refuses all sin knocking at the door as DOA.

That is where my testimony went from double mindedness with sins of the flesh from time to time, to the present state of not I, but Christ that liveth in me doeth these things first in the heart and mind, and then easily with the body.

Start fighting that good fight where it begins, with tempting thoughts trying to take hold in the mind and plant lust in the heart, and you too will see the salvation of the Lord promised to them that love Him with all the heart and mind and soul and strength.

When mockers scornfully demand if I have sinned in my mind today, I can honestly say by the grace of God I have not. And I do know whereof I speak, because I do know where I came from. They could do the same in Christ Jesus, but they are infected with a devilish doctrine of sin and covenant with death, that I never accepted: The soul which sinneth it shall not die, if covered by grace.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.

What a wonderful post. It makes me want to shout. I will post my testimony of Gods visitation when I had tried to stop my porn addiction and had simply run out of things to try, and thus run out of hope I would ever be free in this life. God asked me if I had ever done what He had instructed us to do through Paul and then immediately dropped the answer in my heart. What was it?

It was found in Romans 6, immediately after where Paul had told us two truths we must know.

1) When Christ died, so did we.
2) When Christ rose from the dead to newness of life, so did we.

Great! Wonderful! But we all know that. What is the big deal? We forget what Paul told us to do next. Yes, we must DO something. Not a work, but rather an appropriation of those truths are OUR truths. We must reckon ourselves dead to sin, dead to the old man, dead to the rule of the flesh and believe that this very minute, we are new creatures, and that as new creatures, God has promised to cause us, yes, CAUSE US... to obey Him. Whoa!,

And when I finally saw it and DID it, he light came on and has not gone out, now 15 years ago.

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement.

blessings,

White Dog

 

[robert derrick]

What a wonderful post. It makes me want to shout. I will post my testimony of Gods visitation when I had tried to stop my porn addiction and had simply run out of things to try, and thus run out of hope I would ever be free in this life. God asked me if I had ever done what He had instructed us to do through Paul and then immediately dropped the answer in my heart. What was it?

It was found in Romans 6, immediately after where Paul had told us two truths we must know.

1) When Christ died, so did we.
2) When Christ rose from the dead to newness of life, so did we.

Great! Wonderful! But we all know that. What is the big deal? We forget what Paul told us to do next. Yes, we must DO something. Not a work, but rather an appropriation of those truths are OUR truths. We must reckon ourselves dead to sin, dead to the old man, dead to the rule of the flesh and believe that this very minute, we are new creatures, and that as new creatures, God has promised to cause us, yes, CAUSE US... to obey Him. Whoa!,

And when I finally saw it and DID it, he light came on and has not gone out, now 15 years ago.

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement.

blessings,

White Dog

Yes, we must DO something. Not a work...

Don't be afraid of the word 'work'. Unholy grace worshippers have demonized any and all 'works' for their own sinful benefit.

Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

Being saved by grace is committing all our works to God, and establishing our thoughts only for Him.

The cycle of righteousness in Christ is doing our works for Him and establishing our thoughts to Him: the more our works are done for His sake, the more our thoughts are established in His grace.

The cycle of doing both good and evil from time to time is the folly of OSAS, whose minds are not stayed on the Lord only, but are also stayed on sins: their peace is not from Jesus Christ, but is from strong delusion of being saved by grace only with no works of righteousness to obey Him.

OSAS makes peace with the devil from time to time in a covenant with death.

The only 'works' to avoid are our own: the works of our own righteousness. The filthy rags of man's righteousness according to man's morality, rule, and commandments of touch not, taste not, drink not:

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

Without the faith of Jesus it is impossible to please God, and so any works done by our own rule and law is not justified with God.

And them that do not obey the faith to do the works thereof are not justified at all, and so are not saved at all.

OSAS demonizes all works and obedience for eternal salvation, that they may continue in sin from time to time: they have no problem at all with time to time works of unrighteousness in their unconditional salvation, and have every problem at all times with works of righteousness for eternal salvation.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

The only good works of Christians that cause them to fall from grace, are those of the double minded, who think they are pleasing God by doing both good and evil works of the flesh.

 

[robert derrick]

We will still sin from time to time.

OSAS is the doctrine of the double minded, who think they can do both good and evil before God. There is no good thing done to please God and be justified of Him, while also being ungodly in sins from time to time.

Salvation of God does not begin, until all sins of the soul are cleansed away and all works of unrighteousness are repented of.

OSAS was the hope of Adam.

Adam transgressed, thinking to be a god unto himself to do both good and evil at his own time and choosing.

Christians do not sin ignorantly, but only with knowledge willingly. Sins of ignorance were provided for only in the old covenant for them not yet born of the spirit of truth, and enlightened in the true Light of Christ.

Sinning Christians are unsaved Christians, who have yet to set their hearts aright and be steadfast in spirit to purify their minds of all vain imagination for sins, and so continue in those ungodly sins of the flesh from time to time.

Thou hast enlarged my steps under me; so that my feet did not slip.

Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.

Christians do not slip into sins from time to time ignorantly, but only willingly, being unwilling in heart and spirit to be steadfast in the faith.

OSAS is false salvation for the double minded: they take double minded upon themselves as a cloke for their sins in a perpetual life of righteousness and unrighteousness.

The difference between Christians and sinners is that Christians have power of will to choose righteousness or unrighteousness. The sinners have no such free will: they will choose sin, because it is their nature to do so.

Therefore, there are no saved sinners, but only unsaved Christians who have yet to take their willing stand for righteousness of God at all times: they are not single-eyed for Christ Jesus, but double eyed for Christ and Belial.

OSAS is salvation for the cross-eyed in Christ.

A little sin may do ya in the kingdom of OSAS, but not in the kingdom of God.

Sooner or later before death, every unsaved double minded Christian must repent themselves of all their sins, including those besetting sins that we still like to enjoy from time to time:

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

There is no holier-than-thou self-righteous judgment of others here.

OSAS is simply a doctrine of the devil to keep Christians perpetually falling short of the glory of God by willfully sinning from time to time, who will never finish the race unblameably to obtain eternal salvation.

OSAS decrees there is no unblameable living for Christians in this life, and instead of the blamelessness of Christ in this life, it offers a false hope of being made so in the next by magical grace, which kept them in blame of sin from time to time.

No Christians ever wins the race of eternal life, while crawling on their belly before the devil.