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marks

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Not to mention a majority of his teaching appears to be in direct combat against 1 John 1:7-9.
Only if you are applying that passage to the believer. But in doing that, you end up with an huge contradiction with the doctrine of justification.

Much love!
 

marks

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As I said to you, what I am teaching has nothing to do with self-effort.

I believe that God saves me and keeps me saved.
So then . . . if you sin . . . and you do not confess . . . are you forgiven? Or must you confess first? As a child of God? Is your forgiveness for that sin dependant on your ability to recognize and confess and repent of that sin?

Much love!
 
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justbyfaith

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How do you reach that idea? I haven't seen that.

Much love!

@Behold has said that he believes that those three books will destroy a man's faith.

Can anything written, that would do such a thing, be inspired of God?

Only if you are applying that passage to the believer. But in doing that, you end up with an huge contradiction with the doctrine of justification.

Much love!

I don't see that at all.

So then . . . if you sin . . . and you do not confess . . . are you forgiven? Or must you confess first? As a child of God? Is your forgiveness for that sin dependant on your ability to recognize and confess and repent of that sin?

Much love!

As a child of God I exist in the light. When I fail to believe, and sin as the result, the Holy Spirit convicts, so that I can return to Him.

My position, in Christ, before the Father, has not changed in my having sinned; I can come boldly to the throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need.

But when I bring my sins before the light of God's presence, He sees my sins and then does something about them...He cleanses me with His blood from their attachment to my soul and the detrimental effect that such a thing might have on me.
 
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marks

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@Behold has said that he believes that those three books will destroy a man's faith.
I think what he was saying was that those books contain passages which have often been misused to the destruction of the hearer, more like that.

And that's true, I think. Not that the books are bad for you, but many people who didn't understanding they were reading have caused themselves and others a lot of needless anguish.

Much love!
 

marks

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marks said:

Only if you are applying that passage to the believer. But in doing that, you end up with an huge contradiction with the doctrine of justification.


I don't see that at all.

So then we need to look at what justification is.

Romans 6 tells us that the one who has died has been justified away from sin. What does that mean?

Much love!
 

marks

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But when I bring my sins before the light of God's presence, He sees my sins and then does something about them...He cleanses me with His blood from their attachment to my soul and the detrimental effect that such a thing might have on me.
What sort of attachment to you could they have?

What does it mean where Paul says, it is no longer I that sin, but the sin that lives in me? And again from Romans 6, the one who has died has been justified away from sin.

That "justified" is in the perfect tense, a 'once for all time' action. How is it that we are "justified away from sin" as a once for all time thing?

Much love!
 

justbyfaith

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Hi @marks,

Romans 6:6 can be combined with Colossians 2:11 to create a dangerous spiritual truth that most people are not ready for. They must understand that they are sinners when they are sinners (1 John 1:8). It is not good for people to think that they are without sin when they are not ready for such a revelation; it is a revelation that is only accurate when Jesus has cleansed them from all sin (1 John 1:7). For that to occur they must be walking in the light as He is in the light. And since the verb tense in 1 John 1:7 is "continually cleanseth from all sin" it indicates that sin does come in from the outside and that we need to have our feet washed from time to time (John 13:1-17). And anyone walking in the light will not deny that they are sinners, in the sense that they have indwelling sin, when that truth is presented to them by the Holy Ghost.

As for Hebrews, Matthew, and James, I do believe that we need to be rooted and grounded in the doctrines of grace before reading them. However, @Behold comes across as very prideful and his attitude fosters a prideful response in me. Because when I do attempt to humble myself, he still comes across as prideful and actually attempts to humble me further...he would do well to humble himself and see what my response might be in a similar situation.
 

Cristo Rei

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Let me show you the best way to think of Salvation.

Jesus is salvation.
Jesus is Grace.
Jesus is eternal Life
Jesus is the resurrection
Jesus is the blood atonement
jesus is the full payment to redeem the world of all sin.
Jesus is the Love of God
Jesus is the heart of God

So, when you are saved (born again) This same Jesus who is all those things, comes to live inside you, and you become ONE with Him, in Spirit and Life.
You become eternal life because Jesus is everlasting life.
This means that everything that Jesus is, you become.
This is why you are now deeded to be a "joint Heir with Christ" and and "heir of God".
This is "in Christ".....the meaning.
Which explains this verse...."as Christ IS, so are the born again, in this world".

So, if anyone asks you, "what is salvation"..what is Grace"???..., "i want to be saved, how do i do it'.

Its all about JESUS.
Give them JESUS and Jesus becomes their salvation.. and their savior
When you trust in Christ, when you receive Jesus as your Savior......God TAKES YOU.
That is salvation.
In a very unusual way, because it all happens in the Spiritual Realm... God is making you like Himself, as He gives you the essence of His Identity and Image, which is His Righteousness.
God literally gives this to you, to take you and accept you. "the gift of Righteousness".
You literally become God's righteousness, when you are born again.
See, to be a Son of God, you have to be exactly as Righteous as God.
Only the blood of Jesus can make you as righteous as God.

Here is the thing. Your saying that this is the way, the only way... The RCC says the same thing
So for a person like myself (who has a limited understanding of scripture) who do i believe.

According to the RCC, it's teachings are infallible, guided by the Holy Spirit. I believe the RCC has the authority of God for a few reasons.
The main reason are exorcisms. No one can drive out demons like the RCC. They've been doing it for over 2,000 years from when Jesus gave the authority to the apostles. Only the power of God can do such things... Can you do such things?

So it would really take something extraordinary to convince me that the RCC is wrong in regards to salvation...
But im not a strict Catholic either and tend to think that there isn't one wide path that everyone must take to find God, but many narrow paths
 

mjrhealth

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Here is the thing. Your saying that this is the way, the only way... The RCC says the same thing
So for a person like myself (who has a limited understanding of scripture) who do i believe.

According to the RCC, it's teachings are infallible, guided by the Holy Spirit. I believe the RCC has the authority of God for a few reasons.
The main reason are exorcisms. No one can drive out demons like the RCC. They've been doing it for over 2,000 years from when Jesus gave the authority to the apostles. Only the power of God can do such things... Can you do such things?

So it would really take something extraordinary to convince me that the RCC is wrong in regards to salvation...
But im not a strict Catholic either and tend to think that there isn't one wide path that everyone must take to find God, but many narrow paths

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

And thats why satans kingdom will not stand
 

marks

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it is a revelation that is only accurate when Jesus has cleansed them from all sin (1 John 1:7).
This is how we walk free of sin. Deny people that truth, and you deny them that reality.

Justification is the separation from sin through death. And we can live accordingly, but be it to us according to our faith.

Much love!
 

Cristo Rei

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Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

And thats why satans kingdom will not stand

That's not what we were talking about but i appreciate the input
 

Mr C

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The reality is........The Blood of Christ has already cleansed our Sin.....all of it.....>Tomorrow's included.
If you don't understand this, and you have been falsely taught that your sin till the Cross is forgiven, and you then get God to take care of the new ones, by repenting, ... = you have been mislead and are practicing a waste of your time.

If you'll take your NT and turn to Colossians 2:13 AND THEN Romans 4:8, you will find an amazing discovery that, if you will believe it, will transform your Life in Christ.

Colossians 2:13 ...Paul teaches you that ALL your sin is gone, forgiven, remitted, redeemed, by Christ on the Cross.
Roman 4:8 Paul then confirms that God does not ever again, hold you accountable for your sin, in eternity.
He can't, as all your sin, ALL OF IT, Paul just told you is taken care of by Jesus on the Cross as the Blood Atonement.
So, your sin is gone, and when you are confessing and repenting of what is not being charged to you, you are wasting your Christian Life.
God does not re-clean you, every time you mess up and tell Him you are sorry.
He has already CLEANED you with the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.
Now, when you can SEE THIS, you have taken your first real steps inside the Grace of God, as Right Believing.

Romans 5:20 "Where SIN abounds...Grace moreso Abounds".... = means....when you sin, (works of the Flesh ) after you are saved, the Blood Atonement has already paid for that one ALSO.... It means that when you sin a year from now, on a Monday morning, just before you come here to argue about OSAS, and you sin again (works of the Flesh)....THE CROSS has already taken care of that one also.
Realize the revelation that something that happened 2000+ years ago on a CROSS, is STILL your Salvation 20 yrs from NOW !
Saint, if God didnt take care of all your sin when you were saved, you'd be hell bound the same day you were born again.
You can't save yourself, and you can't keep yourself CLEAN.
You have to TRUST IN CHRIST at some point, with real Faith, so that your walk of faith is inside the Grace of God, trusting in CHRIST ALONE to KEEP YOU SAVED.
Until you can see this, and start to exist there in your MIND, then you will live outside the understanding of the Grace of God and continue to exist as a confessing repenting Discipleship FAILURE.

If a Legalist-Heretic.... could actually comprehend that you can't out-sin the BLOOD of CHRIST, that this blood has actively and permanently SOLVED your "sin" issue, then what a happy Christian they would be, as then they could actually Trust Christ totally., and not just partly.
This is why Jesus died for you. Its what He's doing on the Cross. He is Paying for (cleansing) our sin, from us, by dying FOR IT ALL.
And He DID.

Amazing how many people who claim to be Christians can't even begin to comprehend SALVATION.
Legalists don't understand that the CROSS is a completed work (Blood Atonement), so, they reach into the bible with eyes closed and spiritual mind locked.... and never care to learn or realize that not every verse is aimed at a born again believer.

Now, for the sake of those of you who have not been taught anything about your NT,.... Scriptures in the NT, and OT< are sometimes literal, sometimes symbolic, and sometimes allegorical....in meaning.
For example, "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED"...is literal.
But, "take this cup, as its the blood of the New Covenant".. this can't be LITERAL, as Jesus's Blood is still in HIS BODY, when He's drinking the cup.

See it? ?

A legalist does not understand that "where there is no law, there is no transgression".....as "Christ has ABOLISHED THE LAW" is in the NT, reader. Ephesians 2:15
A legalist, reads Romans 4:8, where they are told that God does not hold them accountable, for sin...(impute)(charge).... and they just foolishly ignore this and run back to Hebrews, a book-letter not written to the CHURCH, but to UNSAVED JEWS..."HEBREWS"... and then they get lost in it and stay lost in it.

Ask why LEGALIST,.. Ask WHY does God not hold you accountable, in Eternity, for your sin that you do tomorrow and next week.

A.) Because God already held Jesus accountable on the CROSS for them ALL.
Understand?.... as this is so so important for you to understand.

A Legalist will take a verse out of Matthew, given before Jesus was on the Cross, that is not NT doctrine for the Blood Bought Redeemed Church, and use this verse out of context to prove to themselves they can "lose it"=(Their Salvation)
A Legalist thinks they are in Christ, then fall out of Christ when they sin, and if they confess = do penance or whatever other deeds they can come up with, they get back INTO Christ.
However, Christ has contradicted you, as He said "I will never leave you or forsake you"...so, "Christ in you, the hope of Glory", is a fact, that you need to start believing.

A Legalist actually believes they are saved untill they sin, then confess, and are saved again, ... as if Salvation is a type of Yo-Yo, of sinning confessing, sinning confessing, sinning confessing.....up down, up down in Christ out of Christ, in Christ, out of Christ.,. kinda crazy, isn't it?
And all of this confusion and chaos is not only the misunderstanding the Blood Atonement, its also not giving FULL Credit DUE to the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.... and that is the REAL issue, for the Legalist - Heretic.
Don't be that person.
It seems that (Jn 1:6-9) (Acts 8:13-24) (Luke 16:19-31) (Heb.10:26-31) (1Cor.9:27) (2Peter 2:20-22) all disagree with your opinion.

Grace does not oppose doing all the commands of the Lord Notice (Rom. 6:3-18) (Gen.6:8,22) (1Jn 2:3-6).

(Rom. 6:16-18)

16. Decide who to serve.
17. Obey a certain Doctrine (Rom. 6:3-6) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 22:16)
18. Being then freed from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Christians)
 

ThePuffyBlob

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another reality is the enemy is already fooling you

if there is indeed a path a religion a church that i can choose where i am already save with just accepting christ i will join that then i will do what i want without doing the law because i am already save but there's no such thing as that

did christ said that the gate is wide and that he said a few people will go that way and be saved

he said it is narrow is the path you are leading us even narrow? it looks so wide
we are saved today and tomorrow and for the rest of our lifetime that's not even a narrow path but too huge and wide and many will go there even if you don't ask them
 

justbyfaith

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It is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me.
However, the body of sin can be destroyed, that henceforth we might not serve sin (Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11)...and the body of the sins of the flesh can be put off from me through a spiritual circumcision.

So if sin, dwelling in me, sins, I am held responsible for that sin because I did not allow Jesus to take my sin to the Cross.

The only reason why sin can sin in me is because I have not crucified sin; if that be the case.

So then, if sin sins within me, I am the one responsible.
 
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ThePuffyBlob

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and behold is the image of christ do not follow what was the law in that time to the point that he has long hair? while his disciples in your profile picture has shorter hair?
 

justbyfaith

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if there is indeed a path a religion a church that i can choose where i am already save with just accepting christ i will join that then i will do what i want without doing the law because i am already save but there's no such thing as that
You forgot about the transformation of character that happens to the ones who are truly born again.

The law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who are under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4).

We bear the fruit of the Spirit, against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23)

As the result we have the righteousness of God in us which is apart from the law; which is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

We obtain this righteousness by faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5). For the love of God is the righteousness of God. It is given to us as a free gift (Romans 5:17, Romans 5:15-19).

I know I'm preaching; and to some it may appear to be foolishness.

See 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.
 

justbyfaith

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This is how we walk free of sin. Deny people that truth, and you deny them that reality.
A man can be set free from the power of sin believing that he has indwelling sin.

For indwelling sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour.

In other words, sin cannot sin in me if sin is rendered to be dead.
 
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