Cooper
Well-Known Member
- Jan 31, 2020
- 2,776
- 866
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United Kingdom
***************Was Yeshua in the Old Testament? Was He a God before He was born? Was He a Spirit?******************
Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world….. John 17:24
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:16-17
----In the beginning Yahweh created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1-----Will the real Creator God please stand up! In most of our Bibles the name of God the Father has been removed and it presents a false perspective. Originally God’s name appeared nearly 6,000 times in the Old Testament. But removing His actual name and changing it to God or Lord, made the word God an actual name. And it has caused a great deal of harm in understand the perspective of Yahweh. So now in our Bibles, the Old Testament scriptures read God and or the Lord, where it was originally Yahweh (and a few other regional names). But when you refer to a God by name….it does not imply three and three persons cannot be applied to one name. So it is harder for People to infer that all three named Gods are one God. So in the interest of accuracy, God’s name will appear in the following scriptures.----
For this is what the Lord Yahweh says—he who created the heavens, he is Yahweh; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—he says: “I am the Yahweh, and there is no other… Isaiah 45:18
Thus says the Lord Yahweh, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself….Isaiah 44:24 (The words Redeemer, Savior, and Salvation in the Old Testament confuse some Christians because they usually refer to either saving people’s lives or freeing them from their oppressors. And it usually refers to Yahweh but also the human warlord king messiah.)
Hear, O Israel: The Lord Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one. You shall love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command to you today shall be on your heart…..Deuteronomy 6:4-5
Remember the former things long past, For I am Yahweh, and there is no other; I am Yahweh, and there is no one like Me…..Isaiah 46:9
You were shown these things so that you might know that Yahweh is God; besides him there is no other….Deuteronomy 4:35
You alone are the LORD. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all…..Nehemiah 9:6
For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art Yahweh alone…..Psalm 86:10
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is YAHWEH, art the most high over all the earth……Psalm 83:18.
If you put Yahweh’s name back into the scriptures it is very easy to see that the Old
Testament is speaking of one God…Yahweh. So these two sets of scriptures do in themselves produce a conundrum of understanding and it is not just the wording of the scriptures. In itself, the Hebrew / Israelite / Jewish religion of the Old Testament was absolutely monolithic by definition….even though they did worship other gods. And this is one of the reasons that the Jews consider Christianity to be a false religion. It was considered idolatry to believe in or pray to a different God. This understanding of the one God thing in the Old Testament was one of…I say one of the reasons it was so important for Christianity to formulate a one God concept in the New Testament….and with Yahweh only being referenced as God or Lord thousands of times in the Old Testament it was easier to deceive.
One God in the Old Testament and one God in the New Testament….right! The deception is working as planned. With God’s name appearing in the original scriptures nearly 6,000 times it was obvious it was one God, one person….and no Godhead like the Trinity. No Jew coined the word Trinity. Gods with more than one aspect only appeared in Pagan religions and this is one reasons people say that God has to be one. So when Yahweh’s name was removed from the Old Testament and replaced with the words God or Lord….most people don’t know enough to even object. To me that is odd….having a Christian Bible with the names of God the Father and God the Son removed. So very few seem to care what the motives for that was, nor the ramifications.
So why did the Roman Ecumenical Councils formulate the doctrine of the Trinity. The early council’s primary focus was to standardize and unite the differing beliefs of Christians to one church. But there were several topics concerning Yahweh and Yeshua that they could not come to an agreement on. So no agreement was made, instead the doctrine of the Trinity was made and then it was one God in the Old Testament and one God in the New Testament and they are the same one God and no further objections could be voiced upon pain of excommunication or death. This was not truth, but rather a silencing of beliefs.
Not even the grand inconsistencies within the doctrine itself were considered, things like in the New Testament where creation is contributed to Yeshua, but if it is one God, no event can be contributed to a single member of the Trinity….effectively they all did it. And then there is the issue of giving authority to yourself and why? Christ not doing His will but the will of another…..His Father…etc.
Is it all a deception? The Roman Church thought that uniting Christianity as one church was paramount, even above truth. Does the means justify the end? It has been an age old questions….The answer….sometimes it is necessary….but the end will always be tainted.
Yahweh does not function as a trio in the Old Testament. They do not talk to one another, nor are certain events assigned or contributed to any God but Yahweh. If you were a Jew and were proclaiming that a God named Yeshua created the world, you would not live long. Same thing goes for proclaiming the Son of God. Of course I do not believe in the one God formula of the Trinity but getting back to the topic at hand….the pre-existent Christ.
So is there away of explaining how Yeshua could have existed from the beginning? There is no possible biblical explanation. So people say the Jews did not / do not understand the Jewish scriptures and the Christians not understanding, suggest that Christians of other denominations do not understand the scriptures! The keywords are “not understanding” but still you cannot harmonize these scriptures……without additional information. But that additional information will fall on the deaf ears of the Fundamentalists, by design.
I have researched several topics and traveled the world looking for answers, but on this topic what gave me the most confidence that I would find an answer was listening to those that spoke in the Spirit. On several occasions I have heard people speaking in the Spirit, talk of the Pre-existent Christ. And one of them was speaking of the event where Christ was talking to His Apostles about Him being in the Old Testament period. --- Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple….John 8:58-59
Thus says the Lord Yahweh, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself….Isaiah 44:24
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:16-17
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21
If this were chess, I would be saying "check mate."
.
Last edited:
