Gun Control

[aspen]

Our nation was established on Liberty with the intent of a FEW laws, to govern a FEW things.

God Bless,
Taken

“For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other." In 1780, John Adams enshrined this principle in the Massachusetts Constitution by seeking to establish "a government of laws and not of men."

 

[Marymog]

So the Syrians rebels do have guns, but would have been limited to rock throwing without that meddling black guy giving them guns?

I accept your apology

Dear friend,

They didn't have guns to defend themselves but NOW they have guns because the US gave them guns.

I apologize for your lack of knowledge about current events.

 

[aspen]

Dear friend,

They didn't have guns to defend themselves but NOW they have guns because the US gave them guns.

I apologize for your lack of knowledge about current events.

So, you introduced the Obama red herring because you liked the US arming the Syrians or didn’t like it?

 

[Marymog]

So, you introduced the Obama red herring because you liked the US arming the Syrians or didn’t like it?

Dear friend,

You stated: Are you prepared to suffer the same fate as the Syrian rebels?

My answer is: I am not willing to suffer the same fate as the Syrian rebels WHO HAD THEIR GUNS TAKEN AWAY. The US government then armed the Syrians BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE GUNS THEY NEEDED TO DEFENE THEMSELVES.

My "red herring" is not misleading or a distraction....it is a FACT.

You don't need to apologize to me for your lack of knowledge of what a red herring is or what the current events are in the world.

The end....Mary

 

[aspen]

Dear friend,

You stated: Are you prepared to suffer the same fate as the Syrian rebels?

My answer is: I am not willing to suffer the same fate as the Syrian rebels WHO HAD THEIR GUNS TAKEN AWAY. The US government then armed the Syrians BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE GUNS THEY NEEDED TO DEFENE THEMSELVES.

My "red herring" is not misleading or a distraction....it is a FACT.

You don't need to apologize to me for your lack of knowledge of what a red herring is or what the current events are in the world.

The end....Mary

When did the Syrians have their guns taken away?

 

[ScottA]

So you are suggesting that we need to fix people who want to misuse guns rather than limit gun use?
Can you provide any examples of how we are supposed to do this? How about how this line of reasoning has worked in other situations?

1. ‘Seatbelt laws don’t work because they are just a bandaid - people need to learn to drive safely’
2. ‘Banning slavery isn’t effective - people need to learn how to respect others’
3. ‘Women don’t need to be able to vote - they need to learn how to agree with their husbands.’

You are arguing against the rule of law. Our nation was founded on laws.

You are dodging the issue with your 1-2-3 examples. We could discuss those, but that would help you in not facing the actual problem. And the rule of law comment is a dodge too...the country was also founded on freedom from law.

But, continuing with the issue at hand and your question: All you have to do is note what is missing from that time before we had the current problem of people going mad and turning to violence. So...do I really need to list them?

• Prayer in school
• God in school
• Spanking
• Respect for authority
• Respect for elders
• Respect for life
• Respect for morality
• Respect for abstinence
• No to tolerance

...In other words, we as a society have traded order and discipline for tolerance and anarchy. We are reaping what we sewed. And guns had nothing to do with it.

Freedom is not the result of chaos, nor of the rule of law, but the result of organization (order).

 

[aspen]

You are dodging the issue with your 1-2-3 examples. We could discuss those, but that would help you in not facing the actual problem. And the rule of law comment is a dodge too...the country was also founded on freedom from law.

But, continuing with the issue at hand and your question: All you have to do is note what is missing from that time before we had the current problem of people going mad and turning to violence. So...do I really need to list them?

• Prayer in school
• God in school
• Spanking
• Respect for authority
• Respect for elders
• Respect for life
• Respect for morality
• Respect for abstinence
• No to tolerance

...In other words, we as a society have traded order and discipline for tolerance and anarchy. We are reaping what we sewed. And guns had nothing to do with it.

Freedom is not the result of chaos, nor of the rule of law, but the result of organization (order).

You mean before automatic weapons?

Sounds like fatalism to me.

My dog poops in the house

I can provide a list of all the manners he should of learned
All the reasons why the dog didn’t learn them
How dogs in the old days (before people treated them like people!) knew their place

Or

I can put limits on the dog

It seems to me that you are living in a world of ‘should’. I am facing the issue and promoting solutions - even if they are imperfect

 

[ScottA]

You mean before automatic weapons?

Sounds like fatalism to me.

My dog poops in the house

I can provide a list of all the manners he should of learned
All the reasons why the dog didn’t learn them
How dogs in the old days (before people treated them like people!) knew their place

Or

I can put limits on the dog

It seems to me that you are living in a world of ‘should’. I am facing the issue and promoting solutions - even if they are imperfect

No, you are "tolerating" your dog instead of teaching him, and then blaming the dog for being a dog.

But again, even "automatic weapons" have nothing to do with it. The only way that analogy works is if no one were killed anymore by knives or clubs. Then you could say, "See, that was then and this is now."

No, you need to train your dog, and quit expecting society to accommodate its unruliness. And that makes people like you who have let every restraint go, the problem. So much for liberation. It's that way of thinking that has caused the problem we now face. And now you don't even have a sense of what is missing. If you did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So, if you don't want to train your dogs or your children...then get use to violence...and poop. Sounds like you got the poop problem all figured out.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Are you prepared to suffer the same fate as the Syrian rebels? All I am saying is that it is easy to talk....

Ted Nugent says everyone should have guns.
The more guns, the less murders.
He's probably right.
But I'll never carry.
I'll put my trust in Jesus everytime.
There ain't no muslims tougher than Jesus.

 

[aspen]

Scott:

No, you are "tolerating" your dog instead of teaching him, and then blaming the dog for being a dog.

Aspen:
Certainly not! Tolerating the dog would be your position. Allowing him to continue to crap on the floor and spending energy talking about how it should be different. Well, I guess outlawing prayer in school is to blame as well - without it people think dogs are people, after all......

Your stance on guns is an example of the same reasoning. No solution only ‘should’.

Scott:

But again, even "automatic weapons" have nothing to do with it. The only way that analogy works is if no one were killed anymore by knives or clubs. Then you could say, "See, that was then and this is now."

Aspen:
Oh those muddy waters! Look, lets be practical - get out of your head and join me. Automatic weapons increase the kill rate and place distance between the killer and the victim, which increases the probability that the shooter will follow through. Prayer in schools and everything elae you listed have nothing to do with the mechanics of killing with a gun - you can quibble all you want about the moral character of our society and what we have lost - it is meaningless - even if it is all true - it does nothing to restrict gun violence.

Scott:

No, you need to train your dog, and quit expecting society to accommodate its unruliness. And that makes people like you who have let every restraint go, the problem. It's that way of thinking that has caused the problem we now face. And now you don't even have a sense of what is missing. If you did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Aspen:
So what you are saying is that I need to train my dog instead of sitting around thinking about how my dog should be acting? You are truly maddening Scott - you just made my point.

Scott:

So, if you don't want to train your dogs or your children...then get use to violence...and poop. Sounds like you got the poop problem all figured out.

Aspen:
Training my dog is equivalent to gun restriction, which is my solution and my point.

Sitting around pondering why my dog is misbehaving instead of training him is equivalent to no gun training or restriction, which, based on your posts is your point of view.

Not sure how you can believe that I should get off my butt and take action to train my dog and stop blaming society AND advocate not taking action by restricting guns and instead, spend time pondering the real reason gun violence happens - the secularization of society (blaming society); well, its your head, Scott and apparently you like mental gymnastics.

I just want people to stop having access to guns so that they will stop shooting each other. If it means people will start going into classrooms and kniving each other, so be it

 

[aspen]

Ted Nugent says everyone should have guns.
The more guns, the less murders.
He's probably right.
But I'll never carry.
I'll put my trust in Jesus everytime.
There ain't no muslims tougher than Jesus.

Ted Nugent says everyone should have guns.
The more guns, the less murders.
He's probably right.
But I'll never carry.
I'll put my trust in Jesus everytime.
There ain't no muslims tougher than Jesus.

Ted is not going to be pleased

 

[Stranger]

Yes, but the difference between ‘many things’ and guns is that no one arguing against the regulation of most things that hurt people. Most things that hurt people do not have lobbyists that fight against providing safe guards.

No one is fighting against 'safe guards'. They are fighting against excessive safe guards. We already have safe guards. They are fighting against a certain political group that wants to take away the 2nd amendment period. Which is always the liberal, anti-christian left, composed of mostly third world peoples. Third world peoples certainly want those Bible believing white folk disarmed. Especially since so many of those third world peoples are of the criminal element and here illegally already.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

Training my dog is equivalent to gun restriction, which is my solution and my point.

This comment sums up the crux of the problem, and where you have it all wrong.

The dog analogy was yours. But if we are to use it correctly, then your dog crapping all over and you having to pick up after it, is a good example of letting generations of kids have their way and eventually loosing respect for a society where good is good and bad is bad and thinks it okay to turn to violence when they can't handle the pressures of the chaos they helped make. My suggestion was that you should train your dog, and society should also train their young to avoid the crap.

So, no, that is not like gun control - just the opposite. Gun control applied to crapping dogs and a society that has dismissed all its safeguards, would be like putting a dog in a smaller pen to limit the crap instead of using proper training, and limiting people with more rules like "Stay off the grass" instead of "Behave yourself, and maybe you can play on the lawn."

But me telling you how to train your dog or raise your kids, won't fix the damage that is already done...unless you are willing to "Do as you are told", which obviously your parents never instilled upon you.

And if you throw another tantrum like the last one - "You can go to your room without dinner!"

 

[aspen]

This comment sums up the crux of the problem, and where you have it all wrong.

The dog analogy was yours. But if we are to use it correctly, then your dog crapping all over and you having to pick up after it, is a good example of letting generations of kids have their way and eventually loosing respect for a society where good is good and bad is bad and thinks it okay to turn to violence when they can't handle the pressures of the chaos they helped make. My suggestion was that you should train your dog, and society should also train their young to avoid the crap.

So, no, that is not like gun control - just the opposite. Gun control applied to crapping dogs and a society that has dismissed all its safeguards, would be like putting a dog in a smaller pen to limit the crap instead of using proper training, and limiting people with more rules like "Stay off the grass" instead of "Behave yourself, and maybe you can play on the lawn."

But me telling you how to train your dog or raise your kids, won't fix the damage that is already done...unless you are willing to "Do as you are told", which obviously your parents never instilled upon you.

And if you throw another tantrum like the last one - "You can go to your room without dinner!"

My solution is gun control. Your solution is parents raise your kids like we used to and leave my guns alone.

I am advocating for an imperfect solution. You are offering no solution

 

[ScottA]

You are offering no solution

Your solution is parents raise your kids like we used to and leave my guns alone.

My solution is according to the word of God...and you are against it:

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

 

[aspen]

My solution is according to the word of God...and you are against it:

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

You have no power or authority to enforce the word of God as you interpret it onto other people. You cannot change people using religion.

 

[ScottA]

You have no power or authority to enforce the word of God as you interpret it onto other people. You cannot change people using religion.

We are not talking about what power I do or do not have. I just stated a fact: I have been purposing a solution in accordance with the word of God (below)...and you are against the very idea. That explains everything.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

 

[aspen]

We are not talking about what power I do or do not have. I just stated a fact: I have been purposing a solution in accordance with the word of God (below)...and you are against the very idea. That explains everything.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

I hope it does explain everything. You have offered nothing, but idealism and fatalism based on wishful thinking and an inability to implement solutions

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I hope it does explain everything. You have offered nothing, but idealism and fatalism based on wishful thinking and an inability to implement solutions

Never happen.
Ted Nugent would never stand for it.

 

[ScottA]

My bottom line:

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

Your bottom line, and your reaction to my solution and God's word:

You have offered nothing, but idealism and fatalism based on wishful thinking and an inability to implement solutions

...Enjoy your "nothing" Friday.