Has anyone here ever read this document?

[Helen]

I have a version on my computer that I have broken into paragraphs. But it is too long for posting on this forum.

If you did some of us may think that THBE had hijacked your profile

 

[Willie T]

If you did some of us may think that THBE had hijacked your profile

Well, it will take at least four posts, maybe five, since it is 13 pages long. But, if you want me to...….

 

[Enoch111]

Well, it will take at least four posts, maybe five, since it is 13 pages long. But, if you want me to...….

You might have to use a 9 point type to deal with 13 pages.

 

[Marymog]

Well, it is just exactly that generalization I shy from.

I find I have no idea what is meant when it says I am to "believe in the communion of Saints." Frankly, that can mean almost anything.

Thanks Willie.

No doubt when it comes to teaching the Truth of scripture we should shy away from "generalizations". It sounds like you are saying that in general you don't believe what you have taught yourself to be true to actually be true!! If you don't believe you have taught yourself the Truth are you not concerned about that? Do you feel comfortable articulating your truths about Scripture on this website?

Communion = gathering if that helps (some look at communion as taking of bread/wine)

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Thanks Willie.

No doubt when it comes to teaching the Truth of scripture we should shy away from "generalizations". It sounds like you are saying that in general you don't believe what you have taught yourself to be true to actually be true!! If you don't believe you have taught yourself the Truth are you not concerned about that? Do you feel comfortable articulating your truths about Scripture on this website?

Communion = gathering if that helps (some look at communion as taking of bread/wine)

Mary

Considering that none of us knows exactly how it can or will happen that we will live after we die, I certainly do feel comfortable saying the particulars I may believe about that "transition" could be completely wrong.... or right

 

[Marymog]

Even more interesting that you feel the necessity to take over the work of the Father to whom Jesus was praying in John 17. He wasn't asking you to unite his people... Jesus was asking his Father to do that. The very fact that Lutherans can pretend to be now united with Rome despite some completely disparate differences in doctrine concerning salvation, is evidence that God is not involved in any way whatsoever with the current dogs breakfast called ecumenism.

It is clear that you know scripture better than I. Thank you for your brilliant interpeation of scripture.

You, brakelite, are truly a person who can bring all christens together with you breadth of knowledge about scripture and loving, kind, intelligent and articulate words.

Everyone should go to brakelites website because what he has written on there will unite us. Please ignore the writings of the document on this website (Evangelicals and Catholics Together) for it contains words that will truly divide Christianity.

Mary

 

[Willie T]

I'm off to the gym. Later...

 

[Marymog]

So you can decide for yourself what is good and what is evil? What is truth and what is error? Therefore your question... Who decides??..... Is answered.
By the way, you are likely aware are you not that Haitians consider themselves Catholic right?

Oh boy. Someone knows how to dodge questions. Let's try again:

What is the next one on your list we can agree on?

They can consider themselves whatever they want, however, if they don't adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church then they are not Catholic.

There are Christians who believe abortion and same sex marriage are biblical. Are they Christian?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Considering that none of us knows exactly how it can or will happen that we will live after we die, I certainly do feel comfortable saying the particulars I may believe about that "transition" could be completely wrong.... or right

That is very brave of you to admit that you could be completely wrong about interpretation of Scripture. Not many on this website would admit that.

Do you feel uncomfortable about telling people the wrong thing? Knowing that you are possibly spreading/repeating a lie?

Mary

 

[Willie T]

That is very brave of you to admit that you could be completely wrong about interpretation of Scripture. Not many on this website would admit that.

Do you feel uncomfortable about telling people the wrong thing? Knowing that you are possibly spreading/repeating a lie?

Mary

No, not at all. Because I seldom declare anything as "a fact that I know" beyond the shadow of a doubt. I usually make it clear that "I believe", or "I think", or "I feel", or "as I read it..." I find myself praying that seekers and beginners will see the boastfulness of many here in declaring emphatic "facts" as though they had just gotten a telegram, direct from God.

 

[Enoch111]

...as though they had just gotten a telegram, direct from God.

The Bible is a telegram from God.

Do you feel uncomfortable about telling people the wrong thing? Knowing that you are possibly spreading/repeating a lie?

This is a good question for good Catholics to contemplate.

 

[Marymog]

No, not at all. Because I seldom declare anything as "a fact that I know" beyond the shadow of a doubt. I usually make it clear that "I believe", or "I think", or "I feel", or "as I read it..." I find myself praying that seekers and beginners will see the boastfulness of many here in declaring emphatic "facts" as though they had just gotten a telegram, direct from God.

So the "fact" is that Scripture is not the Truth? Scripture (the Truth) is just what WE think or believe or feel or how WE read it?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

The Bible is a telegram from God.

This is a good question for good Catholics to contemplate.

And no good Protestant has to contemplate that question?

Curious Mary

 

[Willie T]

So the "fact" is that Scripture is not the Truth? Scripture (the Truth) is just what WE think or believe or feel or how WE read it?

Mary

Obviously that second sentence has to play into it, or else no one would ever think anything differently than anyone else who also read the same passage in the same Bible.

Scripture being "Truth" has nothing to do with the personal way the heart of each one of us decides how to "interpret" something.

 

[Enoch111]

And no good Protestant has to contemplate that question?

A good Protestant should be a Biblicist, and use the telegram from God to present God's truths, not man made doctrines.

Unfortunately the Reformers -- all former Catholics -- could not get rid of their Catholic baggage altogether. So they did not challenge some of the teachings which came from the RCC e.g. Amillennialism.

Now you have a golden opportunity to study the Bible for yourself and discover God's truths from God. With the Internet today no one has any excuse for failing to study the Word.

 

[Marymog]

Obviously that second sentence has to play into it, or else no one would ever think anything differently than anyone else who also read the same passage in the same Bible.

Scripture being "Truth" has nothing to do with the personal way the heart of each one of us decides how to "interpret" something.

Sooooo both of us are pastors and we both start our own churches and we both tell our flock what we believe the Truth is based on our feelings, beliefs, interpretation etc. of scripture and we tell our flock what they have to do (or not do) to obtain eternal salvation HOWEVER we are both telling our flocks completely different "truths".....Isn't one of us lying to our flock and misleading them??

The opposite of the truth is a lie so one of us is lying.

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Sooooo both of us are pastors and we both start our own churches and we both tell our flock what we believe the Truth is based on our feelings, beliefs, interpretation etc. of scripture and we tell our flock what they have to do (or not do) to obtain eternal salvation HOWEVER we are both telling our flocks completely different "truths".....Isn't one of us lying to our flock and misleading them??

The opposite of the truth is a lie so one of us is lying.

Mary

The odds are, both would be...… IF one of us is not telling them that they are hearing only one person's opinion. And that God wrote the Bible so that they could form their own opinions of what He says to each of them.

 

[Marymog]

The odds are, both would be...… IF one of us is not telling them that they are hearing only one person's opinion. And that God wrote the Bible so that they could form their own opinions of what He says to each of them.

They both would be what...Lying? You have me sooooo confused. That means you are suggesting there might be a 3rd or 4th or even a 5th option? That means 4 are lying and one is telling the Truth.

Let's make it simple with an analogy that has been happening in Christianity since the Reformation: Church A teaches that baptism saves you. Church B teaches baptism is only a public display of your faith.

Only one can be true. How do we determine which church is teaching the Truth?

Mary

 

[Stumpmaster]

They both would be what...Lying? You have me sooooo confused. That means you are suggesting there might be a 3rd or 4th or even a 5th option? That means 4 are lying and one is telling the Truth.
Let's make it simple with an analogy that has been happening in Christianity since the Reformation: Church A teaches that baptism saves you. Church B teaches baptism is only a public display of your faith.
Only one can be true. How do we determine which church is teaching the Truth?
Mary

Hullo Marymog. You may have come across this analogy before but it is one worth repeating, that those who regularly handle genuine articles are able to detect counterfeits. This is reportedly true in banking where those who handle genuine legal tender have little or no problem spotting the fake.
This passage exhorts us to study in a way that is approved of God and enables us to arrive at the truth based on what God has given us in His Word - the Bible. If we keep referring to the Bible in a way that is right, not wresting or twisting its message or arguing in a way that gets nowhere, we will become workers that need not be ashamed, having a good grasp of the truth. It does take time and patience and continual study.
2Ti 2:14-18
(14) Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
(15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
(17) And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
(18) Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[Willie T]

They both would be what...Lying? You have me sooooo confused. That means you are suggesting there might be a 3rd or 4th or even a 5th option? That means 4 are lying and one is telling the Truth.

Let's make it simple with an analogy that has been happening in Christianity since the Reformation: Church A teaches that baptism saves you. Church B teaches baptism is only a public display of your faith.

Only one can be true. How do we determine which church is teaching the Truth?

Mary

And as I said (and you know it) that maybe neither are teaching the truth... and probably neither feel they are telling a lie. (Which they aren't, if neither is deliberately deceiving.) All people (if honest) tell things that may be incorrect, but they are not lying. In truth, there may not be a single person on this planet that gets everything in the Bible correctly. But none are lying when they tell what they believe is true.

When I first began working in psychiatry, (which I gave up to become a General Contractor) one of my teachers told me that the world is NOT Black or White, as I wanted to insist it be, but rather it consists of shifting and often elusive shades of grey. It is the same thing with our faith. We do not, ether tell "Truth", or else we have to be lying.