Has Jesus come in the spirit?

[Waiting on him]

Thank you for your witness!

I pray that more experience His return according to His will and plan "each in his own order" as they are drawn, that they open the door when He knocks. And that the eyes of those blinded by the teachings of men would be opened sooner, rather than later. Amen.

Brother I’ve got to say your thread has provoked me into seeing this deeper

Thank you, God bless

 

[ScottA]

Brother I’ve got to say your thread has provoked me into seeing this deeper

Thank you, God bless

It is sad to think that so many desire to see what has already been seen of God in the world, rather that what eye has not seen nor even imagined, and to see face to face instead of a rerun of the glass dimly. Like manner indeed!

Open the eyes of the blind Lord!

 

[justbyfaith]

No, what is obvious, is that you do not believe He "finished" what He came to do in the flesh, even though He said He did.
Why do you consider drinking new wine in the flesh to be better than drinking new wine in the spirit, in glory? Anyway, you are wrong, the scriptures say "in glory."

John 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body."​

Yes...and He did. But that was not Him ascending/going to the Father. That is not the resurrection of prophecy, the promise of eternal life. That is proof of His power over life and death in heaven and earth. But that is all.

The actual resurrection unto eternal life, is not a worldly hybrid evolution of the flesh, it is the spirit of God "returning to God who gave it." The flesh "returns to the dust" and "is burned with fervent heat and with fire."
You have been "cheated." Read also verse 8, which warns against your thinking as men of flesh and as the world thinks, not accrediting to Christ all the glory of God, whom is spirit:

8 "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."

...On the contrary, I accredit Him with all glory.
Again, that speaks of Jesus rising bodily from the dead--not going to the Father, not ascending unto glory.
We just covered this: Jesus went "to the Father" whom "is spirit", which "no man has seen except the Son"--they only saw Him leave, that's all. They did not see His body enter the kingdom of God, "for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom." Surely, you have read all of what I am repeating to you, that these things are true. This is not me talking...this is what is written.
You are drawing your own conclusions by "your own understanding", not accounting for all that is written. It doesn't say that. That is just you speculating.

There are flaws in what you are saying; but it appears that you have even convinced some people of your pov.

I think that the Lord is telling me to simply let the blind be leaders of the blind.

 

[historyb]

I really never thought that I would have to deal with modern-day gnostics in my doctrinal battles. I really did think that that religion was dead.

But, apparently, it is alive and well in the minds of some of the people on these boards.

1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7 is the test of whether someone is a Christian or a gnostic.

Gnostics do not believe that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; Christians do.

I find that all over Christian boards heresy is taking hold like a virus

 

[ScottA]

There are flaws in what you are saying; but it appears that you have even convinced some people of your pov.

I think that the Lord is telling me to simply let the blind be leaders of the blind.

That is not the Lord, He would not tell you to stay in darkness.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is not the Lord, He would not tell you to stay in darkness.

It is specifically a quote from the Lord. If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.

I know that I am not in darkness to believe that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

If anyone is in darkness, it is those who subscribe to the gnostic belief on this matter.

 

[ScottA]

It is specifically a quote from the Lord. If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.

I know that I am not in darkness to believe that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

If anyone is in darkness, it is those who subscribe to the gnostic belief on this matter.

You are so in the dark, you are not paying attention and have missed everything that has been covered.

I don't know what gnostic beliefs are, but you are acting like Christ never came in the flesh 2000 years ago, and therefore needs to come again in the flesh. But, like He said, "It is finished."

Thus, by insisting that He must yet come in the flesh, you are denying that He already has. Your witness is against Christ. This is what John was speaking of when he said, "every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ [has] come in the flesh is not of God." That means you.

 

[Philip James]

I find that all over Christian boards heresy is taking hold like a virus

Heresies that were long ago repudiated by the Church are resurfacing like wildfires... Lack of authority allows all kinds of false teaching to flourish..
Signs of the times...

Peace be with you!

 

[justbyfaith]

This is what John was speaking of when he said, "every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ [has] come in the flesh is not of God." That means you.

I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; and I confess also that He is come in the flesh (that He is a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God)...which apparently you deny.

He is so coming back in like manner as He went up.

He ate a piece of honeycomb and broiled fish; and not much later was visibly caught up into heaven.

Jesus is Human; and to deny this is to fail the test of 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7.

You may want to comfort yourself by believing that the King James Version of the Bible is completely invalid: however, it is clear that the kjv is still a valid Bible version and that it says that if anyone denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, they have a spirit that is not of the Lord.

 

[ScottA]

I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; and I confess also that He is come in the flesh (that He is a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God)...which apparently you deny.

First error...That's far enough. One thing at a time.

You said "You deny" (meaning me)...but that is not correct. It is the scriptures that say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." And, yes, that makes you a false witness.

But by all means, explain how you are right, when God says you "cannot" be.

How is Jesus "a Man sitting at the right hand of the throne of God" when "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?"

Notice that I quoted and italicized the word of God, but I only quoted you. That is because He says what is--not you.

But, hey, go for it.

 

[justbyfaith]

First error...That's far enough. One thing at a time.

You said "You deny" (meaning me)...but that is not correct. It is the scriptures that say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." And, yes, that makes you a false witness.

But by all means, explain how you are right, when God says you "cannot" be.

How is Jesus "a Man sitting at the right hand of the throne of God" when "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?"

Notice that I quoted and italicized the word of God, but I only quoted you. That is because He says what is--not you.

But, hey, go for it.

The answer is: I don't know the answer to your question; except to say that Jesus will drink physical wine (of the sort that He drank at the Last Supper) new with us in the kingdom.

I have heard it said that Jesus is made of flesh but that He has no blood any more for that it was all poured out. I'm not sure I accept that explanation; but it does adequately explain your contention. In it, Jesus would not be made of "flesh and blood" but merely of "flesh".

It should be clear that Jesus has a spiritual body; but that it is also a physical body; and that it is a human body.

I think that, perhaps, in these things, the concept that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not broken.

It should be very clear that Jesus is still human.

You might say, but He rose to fill all things...

Yes, He did so in Spirit: for the 3rd Person of the Trinity is also Jesus, being the Spirit of Christ.

But that He retains a finite human body should be evident, in that He sits upon the throne (Revelation 3:21).

He is called the bright and morning star (Revelation 22:19), in that He has a glorified human body likened to the angels.

Mat 22:30, For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

He continues to be God; even the chief cornerstone of the temple.

He can be seen (Revelation 1:12-17); but God the Father, being a Spirit, cannot be seen (John 5:37).

The Son declares the Father (John 1:18). He who has seen Jesus' physical form has seen the Father (John 14:7-11).

The Lord Jesus Christ will evermore be the manifestation of the Father: He is "the Father with skin on".

I do not know how else to explain it to you; except to say that it is important that we not depart from sound doctrine; and that it is sound doctrine that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

It is so important as to be the test of whether a spirit is from God or some other source.

I would go as far as to question the inspiration of 1 Corinthians (placing it on the same level as Ecclesiastes) if it came down to a duel between scripture passages. For I do believe that the apostle John would take precedence over Paul if there were a discrepancy between their writings. John actually walked and talked with Jesus during His ministry and life on earth; Paul was an apostle only as one abnormally born.

John was fighting a heresy that was enveloping the early church; and it is important that we accept his authority in the writing of his letters if that heresy is going to continue to be defeated in the present day.

 

[ScottA]

The answer is: I don't know the answer to your question; except to say that Jesus will drink physical wine (of the sort that He drank at the Last Supper) new with us in the kingdom.

Fail. You should have stopped at "I don't know..." The scriptures do not say "physical" wine--you added it.

I have heard it said that Jesus is made of flesh but that He has no blood any more for that it was all poured out. I'm not sure I accept that explanation; but it does adequately explain your contention. In it, Jesus would not be made of "flesh and blood" but merely of "flesh".

Fail. Half truths do not work with God, He is perfect.

It should be clear that Jesus has a spiritual body; but that it is also a physical body; and that it is a human body.

Fail. Jesus gave His body in sacrifice, committed only His spirit to the Father, then went to the Father whom is spirit. His Body is now the church. But if we "follow" Him, we too will be born of the Spirit and go to the Father whom is spirit. The body returns to the dust, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. That is what is written.

I think that, perhaps, in these things, the concept that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not broken.

Fail. You have you facts all wrong. I just gave you what is written, what is true.

It should be very clear that Jesus is still human.

Fail. He went to the Father whom is spirit. He is God. Is God "human?" No.

You might say, but He rose to fill all things...

Yes, He did so in Spirit: for the 3rd Person of the Trinity is also Jesus, being the Spirit of Christ.

But that He retains a finite human body should be evident, in that He sits upon the throne (Revelation 3:21).

Fail. "Finite?" You are saying Jesus does not have eternal life, that He is not God.

He is called the bright and morning star (Revelation 22:19), in that He has a glorified human body likened to the angels.

Fail. He is called the bright and morning star because "light has come into the world." He is "the Light of the world", to "bring it out of darkness." But He then went "to the Father" whom is spirit, "that where He is, we might be also." Spirit.

Mat 22:30, For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Okay...and what does that mean..."human", or flesh and blood? No.

He continues to be God; even the chief cornerstone of the temple.

Okay. "Flesh and blood?" No, but rather "you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

He can be seen (Revelation 1:12-17); but God the Father, being a Spirit, cannot be seen (John 5:37).

Jesus is God. Every eye shall see Him. The Son has revealed Him. This is what is written.

The Son declares the Father (John 1:18). He who has seen Jesus' physical form has seen the Father (John 14:7-11).

The Lord Jesus Christ will evermore be the manifestation of the Father: He is "the Father with skin on".

No. He "was" the image of the Father and "became flesh." This is the testimony of His witnesses, and the test given by John--but that was then, "It is finished."

And Jesus said, "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more,"

I do not know how else to explain it to you; except to say that it is important that we not depart from sound doctrine; and that it is sound doctrine that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

You have not "explained it", for the most part you have botched it--speaking against (anti-) Christ, who made it clear, that "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." "God is spirit." Jesus is God.

It is so important as to be the test of whether a spirit is from God or some other source.

Exactly...and you have failed to claim that Jesus has come in the flesh, by claiming that He still needs to. That was/is John's test: that He had come, not that He will come again in the flesh--John did not say that. But I suspect that you struggle with the vernacular, of "is come" which also means "has come." "Is" is not incorrect however, because Jesus is God and God is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, i.e., "I am." But, at this time in history, is is correct (according to John's test) to say "He has come"...not because He will, but because He has already. John was not at all speaking of Jesus' return.

I would go as far as to question the inspiration of 1 Corinthians (placing it on the same level as Ecclesiastes) if it came down to a duel between scripture passages. For I do believe that the apostle John would take precedence over Paul if there were a discrepancy between their writings. John actually walked and talked with Jesus during His ministry and life on earth; Paul was an apostle only as one abnormally born.

No, that is wrong. God is no respecter of persons. You finding a discrepancy in the word of God, is no discrepancy with John or with Paul, or with God, but with you.

But if anything, you have it backwards. Which is greater, the flesh or the spirit? John walked with God in the flesh, Paul walked with Jesus in the spirit.

John was fighting a heresy that was enveloping the early church; and it is important that we accept his authority in the writing of his letters if that heresy is going to continue to be defeated in the present day.

Yes, so I suggest you do that, and be clear to quote him properly, not adding that "Jesus will come in the flesh", and stick to what John actually said, that He "has come in the flesh."


...And in the future, you might just take one point at a time, and only move to the next point once the one is resolved.

 

[justbyfaith]

I just gave you what is written, what is true.

You have given false doctrine that is very much the same as gnosticism.

Exactly...and you have failed to claim that Jesus has come in the flesh, by claiming that He still needs to.

I have not failed to claim that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh:

I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; and I confess also that He is come in the flesh (that He is a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God)...which apparently you deny.

I am saying that He never ceased to exist as a human being when He ascended.

You might say, but it says that He became a life-giving spirit.

He did indeed do so: by separating from His body in Luke 23:46.

 

[ScottA]

You have given false doctrine that is very much the same as gnosticism.

I have not failed to claim that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

I am saying that He never ceased to exist as a human being when He ascended.

You might say, but it says that He became a life-giving spirit.

He did indeed do so: by separating from His body in Luke 23:46.

1. No...I simply quoted the scriptures. You, on the other hand have been voicing your opinion and what you think is true, and adding to the scriptures things that are not there.
2. To treat Jesus' first coming in the flesh as if He needed to do it again, is a denial that He "finished" it, which is a spiritual failure of the test given by John. Instead of saying Amen to the report of His coming in the flesh, you look for Him to come again in the flesh, as if He had not already done so. Your Yes, is a No.
3. To say that Jesus "never ceased to exist as a human being when He ascended", is to say He never ascended, to say He has not gone to the Father, that He is not God, that He did not become a life-giving spirit, that He did not commit only His spirit to God. But you are wrong--"flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

...And now you have just repeated every error all again, claiming that the words of the scriptures you quote mean exactly the opposite of what they say. Example: The scriptures say Jesus committed, not his flesh and blood body, but only His spirit to the Father...but you say he ascended in His physical body. That's just wrong.

Then you go on to contradict yourself to say He separated from His body, and you quote the scripture.

If you are going to go on and on contradicting yourself and the scriptures, why don't you just admit you were wrong...and we can both praise God?

 

[justbyfaith]

I know that I am right here and that you are wrong.

I have not failed the test of 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7; but you apparently have failed the test.

Your doctrine betrays you as being a gnostic.

 

[ScottA]

I know that I am right here and that you are wrong.

I have not failed the test of 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7; but you apparently have failed the test.

Your doctrine betrays you as being a gnostic.

Your Yes is No, the light in you is darkness, and you have given false witness with prejudice.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your Yes is No, the light in you is darkness, and you have given false witness with prejudice.

See Matthew 7:3-5.

You have three fingers pointing back at you.

And if I would've said it first, it would have been valid testimony; because I very well could have said it first: but since it is not true of me, I refrained from pointing the finger.

 

[justbyfaith]

However, we are brought back again to the exhortation of Galatians 5:15.

Nevertheless, when one person in the equation is a gnostic rather than a believer in Christ, you cannot expect Christian behaviour from them.

 

[ScottA]

See Matthew 7:3-5.

You have three fingers pointing back at you.

And if I would've said it first, it would have been valid testimony; because I very well could have said it first: but since it is not true of me, I refrained from pointing the finger.

Yes, you were an accuser since the beginning. Revelation 12:10

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, you are an accuser, it has been your line since the beginning. Revelation 12:10

Praise the Lord! I am blessed over your persecution of me.

I believe that all will notice that when it comes to accusing, I have not thrown the first punch; unless you want to count the fact that I subjected you to the test of 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7...if you had not failed the test, there would be no ill-speaking of you.

You have one that accuses you; and that is the One who inspired 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7 to be written. He is the One who convicts you of sin and righteousness and judgment.