Has Jesus Returned? - Hour video

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,184
2,534
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Rev 6
When He (the Lamb) broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained [out of loyalty to Christ]. 10 They cried in a loud voice, saying, “O Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood on those [unregenerate ones] who dwell on the earth?”

11 Then they were each given a white robe; and they were told to rest and wait quietly for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers and sisters who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed.
"The Soul that sinneth, it shall die". - Ezekiel 18:4 KJV​
"He that converteth the sinner...shall save a Soul from death". - James 5:20 KJV​
"He sent and sign-ified (the book of Revelation)". - Revelation 1:1 KJV​
Revelation 1:1 KJV tells us right away the book is given in "signs" aka "symbolism" - claiming "souls under the altar" proves Immortal Soul doctrine is a gross violation of hermeneutics.

Blood is what runs down under the altar, just as Abel's blood ran down into the ground. It's symbolism for "injustice in the sight of God". Red and white corpuscles can't cry out - they don't have a mouth. Souls can't cry out unless they exist, which they don't after they die.
 
Last edited:

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank God for freedom in Christ to rely on the spirit. It’s something tremendously depended upon faith in the life of the Christian. To not judge others, and to love God and to love others. Though our flesh is known to take the seat on the throne of heart to say we can judge people, along with their ideals, and thoughts. People may believe how they want in the end of it due to subjective Christianity, which in the end relies on Christ, by dying to ourselves and living by and through the spirit, by being in the vine, whom is Jesus.

When it comes to revelation, most believe it none of it has even happened, while some believe Revelation 1-20 has.

It’s up to subjective study to learn what the very Jewish letter describes in its context, even with history being evidenced through out its contents.

What people believe about it is totally between themselves and God in the end after all.

May God bless.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Gandalf- you can always just unfollow this thread. Thank you brother, you take care.

You can just unfollow this thread also, brother! When you can plainly show us where they get out of hell just as plainly as we are told they are cast into hell, then you can come back and show us.

Your reasoning is tiresome, show us some evidence or be silent!
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello @Charlie24 sorry if your tired of me and my annoyance.

Please read verse 13: which indicates hell is not eternal.

“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬-‭15‬ ‭RSV‬‬
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How can hades give up its dead if hell is forever and ever and ever, supposedly by what people teach from what Jesus had stated, yet John says Hades gives up its dead and all are judged afterward that was in it?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello @Charlie24 sorry if your tired of me and my annoyance.

Please read verse 13: which indicates hell is not eternal.

“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬-‭15‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Not tired of you, Matthew, just tired of your false teachers!

Ask your teachers to show us where they get out of hell.

That will settle the whole affair, until then it's just a dream.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I just shared it here by biblical verses.

Please read, post number 25.

Why are you choosing to be so aggressive, @Charlie24 ?
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How can hades give up its dead if hell is forever and ever and ever, supposedly by what people teach from what Jesus had stated, yet John says Hades gives up its dead and all are judged afterward that was in it?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I just shared it here by biblical verses.

Please read, post number 25.

Why are you choosing to be so aggressive, @Charlie24 ?

Show me the verse where they get out of hell, Matthew!

Just trying to show you that your teachers are dreamers, not realistic.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brother I just showed you? Are you okay?

Please go grab your Bible and read Revelation 20. Read it out loud to yourself.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you read the Scripture, hell gives up it's dead to be judged, and then cast into the lake of fire. The final destination of the lost!
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Show me the verse where they get out of hell, Matthew!

Just trying to show you that your teachers are dreamers, not realistic.
Well if I thought he was a liar I wouldn’t post anything by the man who has helped me realize that Jesus did come as promised to those who were the bride in 70Ad. Of course it’s all by faith I believe Jesus did what he had done and to those whom he promised in that generation my friend.

If you read the Scripture, hell gives up it's dead to be judged, and then cast into the lake of fire. The final destination of the lost!
Hell gives up it’s dead. That is what you wanted to see. So there it is.

Revelation doesn’t end here at chapter 20 though sir. I believe chapter 20 is the wrapping up of the old prior age dealing with the Jewish people and part of the bride was a few gentiles. There is still more to deal with.

Revelation 21-22 are still left untouched which is the new administration.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well if I thought he was a liar I wouldn’t post anything by the man who has helped me realize that Jesus did come as promised to those who were the bride in 70Ad. Of course it’s all by faith I believe Jesus did what he had done and to those whom he promised in that generation my friend.


Hell gives up it’s dead. That is what you wanted to see. So there it is.

Revelation doesn’t end here at chapter 20 though sir. I believe chapter 20 is the wrapping up of the old prior age dealing with the Jewish people and part of the bride was a few gentiles. There is still more to deal with.

Revelation 21-22 are still left untouched which is the new administration.

There goes your reasoning again!

The Scripture plainly says that all in hell are raised up and judged at the White Throne of Judgement, and all who are not found written in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire.

If you notice, there is no longer a hell, it is cast into the lake of fire with all who are lost. The final destination of the lost.

Now without reasoning, show us in Scripture where they get out of the lake of fire!
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There goes your reasoning again!

The Scripture plainly says that all in hell are raised up and judged at the White Throne of Judgement, and all who are not found written in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire.

If you notice, there is no longer a hell, it is cast into the lake of fire with all who are lost. The final destination of the lost.

Now without reasoning, show us in Scripture where they get out of the lake of fire!
Most assuredly and gladly.

“and to fearful, and unstedfast, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the liars, their part [is] in the lake that is burning with fire and brimstone, which is a second death.’”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21‬:‭8‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

They only suffer their part in this lake of fire.

They also are said to be outside the city gates.

“‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

If you have any more questions I’ll be happy to try to answer but if your hope is for people to be completely lost forever, good luck with trying to justify it without these scriptures which are part of the Revelation.

I believe this is part of Gods plan to have no one perish, though in this fire there is a loss, no doubt.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Part or portion you can say, doesn’t say they are there forever though in the new administration.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,081
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The question is has Christ Jesus conquered over even the second death? Some say no way. I believe yes way, all things have been conquered over.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Most assuredly and gladly.

“and to fearful, and unstedfast, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the liars, their part [is] in the lake that is burning with fire and brimstone, which is a second death.’”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21‬:‭8‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

They only suffer their part in this lake of fire.

They also are said to be outside the city gates.

“‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

If you have any more questions I’ll be happy to try to answer but if your hope is for people to be completely lost forever, good luck with trying to justify it without these scriptures which are part of the Revelation.

I believe this is part of Gods plan to have no one perish, though in this fire there is a loss, no doubt.

How can they be outside the gates (in the way you interpret) when they have been cast into the lake of fire?

"outside the gates" means they have no access to the gates, in the correct interpretation. Because they did not believe in Christ for the right reasons.
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
996
793
113
60
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Souls can't cry out unless they exist, which they don't after they die.​
The righteous souls are shown to do that in Rev 6 and rev 20 thanks to Jesus resurrection. They are given white robes then.
As for the unrighteous souls they seem to be sentenced at the GWT. Why do that if they do not exist?
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
996
793
113
60
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The question is has Christ Jesus conquered over even the second death? Some say no way. I believe yes way, all things have been conquered over.
He Conquered the first death for us and the second will not hurt those the moment they truly believe in him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charlie24