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Hath God cast away his people

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Insight, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    The whole viewpoint originates in a misunderstanding of who Israel is.
    Historically, Israel was the ten-tribed Northern Kingdom. Legally
    speaking, the name was given to Ephraim and Manasseh, the sons of
    Joseph, and only those who were in unity with those tribes had the right
    to call themselves by the name of Israel.

    When Israel was deported to Assyria as the result of their sin, the prophets
    gave them comfort and spoke of a future restoration. That restoration would
    occur under the Messiah. In that restoration, both Israel and Judah would be
    reunited under "one Head" (Hos. 1:11), Jesus Christ.

    When we come to the New Testament, we find that the Messiah was rejected.
    He could only be accepted as part of the reunification of Israel and Judah, for
    He was the Repairer of the breach (Isaiah 58:12). Yet in the first century, the
    Israelites were known to be "beyond Euphrates," as Josephus says. They had
    not returned to the old land, and they were NOT united with Judah.

    In other words, there were serious problems with men's understanding of the
    prophecies, for the truth only dawned on them slowly and painfully. The key
    to understanding was bound up in the fact that God was using the breach
    between Israel and Judah as a pretext to repair a deeper breach at the same
    time. This was the breach that had occurred at the beginning between God
    and Adam.

    Further, in going back to the origins of the problem, He also began to restore
    the original definitions of Judah and Israel. Recall that Israel was the name
    (or title) given to Jacob when he wrestled with the angel. It was not originally
    a racial term, nor even a national term. It was a name-title that testified of the
    new level of FAITH that Jacob had attained when the sovereignty of God was
    revealed to him. All of his life he had fought for the birthright by the arm of flesh.
    I believe, in fact, when he was fighting the angel, he thought he was fighting
    Esau--until the angel did something supernatural. It was at that point he realized
    that he was actually fighting God, because he had been unable to see God in

    It is only when we are able to see the face of God in our greatest enemy that we
    truly understand the sovereignty of God. The next day when Jacob met Esau, he
    was able to say in Gen. 33:10, "I see your face as one sees the face of God."
    Jacob had become an Israelite.

    In the ultimate sense, no one is an Israelite apart from this level of revelation,
    regardless of race or nationality. On the other hand, anyone can become an
    Israelite by receiving the same revelation, for this is the key to being an

    Likewise, to be a Judahite ("Jew") is not ultimately a matter of genealogy but
    of FAITH that brings a change of heart. Paul understood this when he wrote
    in Rom. 2:28, 29,

    (28) For he is NOT a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is
    circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. (29) But
    he IS a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
    which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and
    his PRAISE is not from men, but from God.

    Paul tells us who is a Jew and who is not a Jew ( "of Judah"). The name Judah
    means "praise." So Paul says that a real Jew is one whose PRAISE is from God,
    not men. It is a play on words to show that one's identification with Judah comes
    from God, and it has nothing to do with how men identify themselves.

    In other words, a Jew by God's definition is a believer in Jesus Christ, who is the
    rightful Heir to the throne of David and the Scepter of Judah. Those who reject the
    King are cut off from the tribe itself.

    Likewise, an Israelite is not ultimately one who can claim genealogy from the old
    tribes, but is one who is an overcomer.

  2. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Israel is Israel. Look on the map folks. Jerusalem, the Land of the Bible. God resurrected it from the dead. Don't speak against the Nation of Israel. You will invoke a curse upon yourself.
  3. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Only the children that claim The Promise through Abraham to Isaac to Jacob can rightly call themselves Israel. The nation state in the promise land today is actually a revival of the old kingdom of Judah, and its establishing was per God's prophecy in Jeremiah 24, which once again is, about Judah, and not the ten tribes of Israel.
  4. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    God resurrected the Nation of Israel as He said He would do. He put them back into their Land. Many 'Christians' are trying to usurp the Nation of Israel's place with God. But there they are in the Land that He promised them. And there they will stay. And no one can take their place with God.

    Amos 9:14-15 (NKJV)
    14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. 15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.
  5. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    The name Israel was given to the sons of Joseph, but all those who
    were in UNITY with them were able to call themselves by that name.
    The same is true with the term Judah, or "Jew." This is true whether
    people convert to a religion, join a denomination or club, or change
    their citizenship.

    The vast majority of the Israelites were not actually direct descendants
    of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Yet they were part of Israel by the
    Unity Factor. And then when Israel came out of Egypt under Moses,
    "a mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and
    herds, a very large number of livestock" (Ex. 12:38).

    When Israel finally arrived in Canaan, Joshua divided up the land into
    12 pieces according to the 12 tribes of Israel. There was no Tribe of
    Egypt. Where did they all go? We know that at first they were quite carnal
    and did not have enough faith to keep from grumbling over the lack of
    food and water. Nonetheless, the rest of the Israelites did not have
    sufficient faith to enter the Promised Land either. Yet over time, they were
    absorbed into the rest of the tribes and became citizens of Israel by the
    Unity Factor.

    Centuries later, the Israelites were deported to Assyria near the Caspian
    Sea, where they were called Gimirra, or the House of Omri. God stripped
    them of the birthright name, because they had ceased to bear witness
    to the meaning of the name. They were no longer Israelites from God's

    Prophecy is clear, however, that God would regather them, save them,
    and reunite them with Judah under one Head, Jesus Christ. Once again,
    there is no salvation apart from unity with Jesus Christ. None of those
    ex-Israelites of the dispersion can legally claim to be "Israelites" apart
    from Jesus Christ.

    In other words, there is a lawful way to regain Israelite citizenship. Claiming
    physical descent is not one of the test questions on the application. This is
    about citizenship, not race. In fact, Isaiah 56:8 says,

    8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel,
    declares, "Yet others I will gather to them, to those
    already gathered."

    This prophecy comes in the context of the previous verses, which speak of
    "foreigners who join themselves to the Lord" (vs. 6). In other words, there
    would be (genetic) non-Israelite people who would be gathered with the
    (genetic) Israelites, but they would all have to "join themselves to the Lord"
    in the same manner in order to gain citizenship in Israel.

    "The Lord" is Yahweh in the Hebrew language. Isaiah 12:2 says,

    2 "Behold, God is my Yeshua... For Yah Yahweh is my
    strength and song, and He has become my Yeshua."

    In other words, Yahweh became Yeshua (Jesus) when He was born as a baby
    in Bethlehem.

    We can only conclude, then, that the path to Israelite citizenship is for people to
    be joined in unity with Jesus Christ. Apart from Him, no one can lawfully
    claim to be an Israelite. God has indeed promised to save those lost, dispersed,
    genetic Israelites, but the divine plan leveled the playing field and opened it up to
    "foreigners" on an equal basis.

    This principle of Unity culminates in Paul's statement in Eph. 2:14, 15, where we
    find that Jesus Christ broke down the dividing wall to "make the two into one
    new man." Verse 19 says,

    19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you
    are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household.

    So the strangers and foreigners were able to become part of God's household of
    faith. The dividing wall has been demolished in Christ.

    But what about the Jews? Or, more specifically, what about the house of Judah?
    The same principle holds true. When Judah and Israel were divided in 1 Kings 12:16,
    the Judahites ("Jews") no longer were called Israelites because they were no longer
    in unity with the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh. Hence, they took on the secondary
    name, "Judah," which was later contracted to "Jew."

    When Yahweh became Yeshua, the people were required to be in unity with Him in
    order to form the nation to which Israel would be reunited in later years. However,
    Judah rejected Him (John 1:11) as a whole. Those who DID receive Him were a tiny
    minority, and yet they remained as the true "Jews," for they were in Unity with the King.
    John 1:12, 13 says,

    12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to
    become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
    13 who were born [begotten] not of blood (line), nor of the will of
    the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Those disciples were soon driven from the land by persecution. The scattering of the
    seed served to expose many Greeks and Romans to the gospel, and soon the
    foreigners outnumbered the Judeans. Paul was their main spokesman for equal rights
    in the Kingdom of God, though the Judaizers fought hard to retain the two-tier
    citizenship system that they knew in the old temple with its dividing wall.

    Together, however, these Judeans and foreigners came to be known as "the Church."
    They were united, not by race or culture, but by their "one Head," Jesus Christ. These
    are the ones Paul refers to in Rom. 2:29 when he says, "he is a Jew who is one
    inwardly." Those Jews who rejected Christ, those who claimed citizenship by virtue of
    their outward circumcision, were not Jews at all in the sight of God (vs. 28).

    Apart from unity with the King, there is no citizenship in this United Kingdom of Israel
    and Judah. Neither does anyone have the right to claim such citizenship merely on
    the grounds of their physical descent. One must have faith in Christ to be a "Jew."
    One must become an overcomer to be an Israelite.

  6. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    That event of Amos 9 has NOT happened yet today. One only need start reading there a little further up to realize it...

    Amos 9:11-14
    11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

    The "tabernacle of David" that was once in Jerusalem is STILL fallen there today. No king sits upon a throne in the nation state called Israel today. David's earthly throne was to always be an earmark for God's Israel. It still exists on earth, but not in Jerusalem. So this Amos 9 prophecy is still yet to occur. Zedekiah was the last king of Judah of the house of David upon a throne in Jerusalem. It was removed in Jeremiah's days by the king of Babylon.

    12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by My name, saith the LORD That doeth this.

    This is about Israel's restoration according to God's requirements, not man's supposed requirements which are nothing. The heathen called by His Name is a symbol put for believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. That's another marker of how we know this prophecy is still future with Christ's second coming, and the gathering of His saints to Jerusalem. Instead today, the unbelieving Jews there burn New Testament Bibles, as they still refuse Christ Jesus The Messiah.

    13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
    14 And I will bring again the captivity of My people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

    This is of the time when both the stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph (representing the ten tribes) will be joined there once again, under Christ Jesus (per Ezekiel 37).
  7. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    To my knowledge, none of the Dispensationalists a century ago had
    an understanding of the laws establishing the two comings of Christ.

    That same ignorance of the law prevented most of the people in
    Jesus' day to understand the purpose of His first coming. When
    Jesus spoke of His soon-coming death on the cross, Peter rebuked
    Him in Matt. 16:22. Peter's ignorance came on the heels of his
    greatest revelation, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living
    God" (vs. 16)

    This shows how believers can have great revelation in one area and
    yet be totally in the dark in another area. The contrast is amazing.

    Christians today are as confident of their understanding of the second
    coming of Christ as the Judeans were about the first coming of Christ.
    In my view, the Judean ignorance was necessary to fulfill the plan of
    God, for if the chief priests had known, they would never have crucified
    the Messiah.

    It is certain that the real purpose of the second coming of Christ has
    likewise been hidden from the Church today. Christian ignorance
    allows the prophesied event to occur naturally, rather than allowing
    fleshly but well-meaning Christians to force Christ into returning.

    When Judas betrayed Jesus, it was not out of a malicious heart, but to
    force Jesus into doing a great miracle to save Himself and thus prove
    to the whole nation that He was indeed the Messiah. He tried to force
    Christ's hand by the power of the flesh, not understanding that His
    purpose in coming was to die. When Judas finally understood this, his
    remorse caused him to hang himself.

    If anyone has the physical genetics going back to Abraham, then he
    was thought to be "chosen." This viewpoint is very common today as
    a result. It is believed that Jews are Israelites, regardless of their

    Even if we were to accept that definition of an Israelite without
    qualification, it could easily be proven that the Jews are not Israelites.
    A simple reading of Scripture proves that. The Kingdom had split into
    two nations: Israel and Judah. "Jew" is simply a shortened form of
    "Judah." The Israelites were the northern tribes.

    You see, the birthright name, Israel, was the name that the angel gave
    to Jacob when he was 98 years old (Gen. 32:28). He was not born an
    Israelite. It was a title that testified of his new-found faith in the
    sovereignty of God. Years later, he crossed his arms and passed that
    name down to the sons of Joseph, saying in Gen. 48:16,

    16 The angel who has redeemed me from all evil
    [delivered him from Esau] bless the lads; and may
    my name live on in them ....

    Thus, the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh were given the name of
    Israel. For any of the other tribes to call themselves Israelites, they had
    to be united with Ephraim and Manasseh who carried the name Israel.
    Further, we read in 1 Chron. 5:2, "the birthright belonged to Joseph."
    Hence, if any of the other sons of Jacob wanted to benefit from the
    birthright, they had to be in unity with Joseph (and his sons).

    That unity was broken when the kingdom was divided after the death of
    Solomon. From then on, the prophets do not call Judah by the name of

    Once the Kingdom split, the prophets gave separate prophecies to each
    nation. Judah was the tribe of the Messiah in His first coming, because
    He had to come of the lineage of David. Those prophecies were, indeed,
    fulfilled, as we read in the New Testament. But the question facing us
    today is how the prophecies to ISRAEL are to be fulfilled through Joseph.

    If we deal with this question on the basis of genealogy, then it is clear that
    the Jews are not Israelites, and they have no right to usurp the name
    Israel in a Jewish state. They have not been reunited with the tribes of
    Joseph, which were dispersed by the Assyrians and who never returned
    to the old land.

    There is no reunification of the tribes apart from uniting under one Head,
    Jesus Christ (Hos. 1:11). It is self-evident that the Jews do not claim Jesus
    Christ as their King. It is also self-evident that the tribes of Israel did not
    return to the old land.

  8. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Happened? It is 'happening'. Israel is back to stay.

    Luke 21:24 (NKJV)
    24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    The 'times of the Gentiles' was fulfilled in 1967. They recovered Jerusalem.

    "After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force captured East Jerusalem, along with the entire West Bank. East Jerusalem, along with some nearby West Bank territory, was subsequently annexed by Israel. On 27 June 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel extended its law and jurisdiction to East Jerusalem and some surrounding area, incorporating it into the Jerusalem Municipality."

    "As a result of the Six-Day War in 1967, the whole of Jerusalem came under Israeli control."


    Luke 21:32 (NKJV)
    32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

    Some living in 1967 will still be living unto the time of the end.
  9. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Did I mention that when Jesus returns to Earth (not the Rapture) He will return to the Nation of Israel?
  10. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    What you speak of is the fulfillment of Jeremiah 24, not Amos 9.

    The ones that returned to form today's nation state of Israel were remnants of Judah (Jews), not branches of the ten tribes of Israel. The majority of Judah still lives outside the state of Israel today also.

    Amos 9 is about the future with Christ's SECOND coming. And for those who don't know what that word 'future' means, it means it has not happened yet.


    The name Israel can apply to all those born through Jacob (Israel).

    But you're right, the name Judah was used for the kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem, and kingdom of Israel for the northern ten tribes after God split all Israel into two separate kingdoms after Solomon's days.
  11. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    There are LOTS of guessers out there, but the fact is that Jesus will return to Jerusalem, in the Nation of Israel. He will fight for them and woe be unto all the enemies of the Nation of Israel.

    Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
    1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
  12. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    In order to understand the prophecies of both Israel and Judah, we need to
    understand the negative side of Unity. This may answer a few questions
    that have been used in some of these posts on this forum.

    The most critical problem with church understanding today is the case of
    mistaken identity that has its roots in the book of Genesis. It goes back to
    the struggle between Jacob and Esau to obtain the birthright. It was
    prophesied before these twins were born that "the older shall serve the
    younger" (Gen. 25:23).
    Nonetheless, by law, the older son could not be disinherited without
    cause. So Isaac intended to give him the birthright. Jacob knew that he
    himself was destined to receive it, so when Isaac made preparations to pass
    the birthright to Esau, Jacob pretended to be his brother and so obtained the
    birthright by lying (Gen. 27:19).

    The ends do not justify the means. Because his father was old and blind,
    Jacob succeeded in obtaining the birthright by pretending to be Esau. It was
    a case of mistaken identity.

    Thus, Esau hated Jacob, and intended to kill him. Jacob paid a heavy price
    for his lie, for that lie had manifested his lack of faith in God's ability to fulfill
    His Word in spite of circumstances. Only years later, when Jacob finally
    understood the sovereignty of God, did God give him the birthright name
    Israel (Gen. 32:28).

    Meanwhile, however, Esau appealed to his father for a blessing, and Isaac
    prophetically decreed: "when thou shalt have the dominion, thou shalt
    break his yoke from off thy neck" (Gen. 27:40). In other words, the
    dominion would have to be returned to Esau. What Esau did not know was
    that this would only be temporary, because God was to give him a chance to
    prove himself unworthy of the birthright.

    If Jacob had allowed Esau time to prove himself unworthy at the beginning,
    then this would not have been necessary later.

    That is a summary of the original problem. Many years later, the descendants
    of Esau, known as Edomites or Idumeans, were conquered and absorbed into
    Judah in 126-125 B.C. They were UNIFIED by force of conquest and
    converted to Judaism. Hence, the spirit of Esau was united with the evil figs of

    There were two groups of Judahites, as shown in Jeremiah 24-29, represented
    by two baskets of figs. These figs came from two different fig trees, obviously.
    The evil figs were those who refused to submit to divine judgment when God
    raised up Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to conquer them. The good figs were
    those who submitted to God's judgment.

    Yet this Babylonian captivity turned out to be longer than anticipated. Daniel 2
    and 7 shows that Babylon itself was only the first of four major empires to come,
    each of which was given dominion over Judah (and other nations). Judah was
    therefore admonished to submit to all of these four empires until the time of
    captivity ended.

    In the time of Jesus, there were still good figs and bad. The bad figs chafed
    under the rule of Rome, which was the fourth kingdom of Daniel's prophecy.
    Jesus came as the King, and He was a good fig. He taught His disciples to be
    at peace with Rome. The bad figs, however, finally revolted from 66-73 A.D.
    and were dispersed as a result.

    In this Revolt, the Edomite-Jewish faction sided with the bad figs, as history
    shows, and fought against the Romans. Masada was their final stronghold
    which fell on Passover of 73 A.D. So the unity between Judah and Edom
    resulted in the bad figs being reinforced, because both were of the same spirit
    of revolt against God.

    Six centuries later, the Khazars (from Togarma) converted to Judaism. They
    were thus united with the same "tree" that had produced the evil figs in the
    days of Jeremiah and again in the first century. This set the groundwork for
    the final showdown in 20th century Zionism, which was a manifestation of the
    evil figs of Judah, Edom, and Togarma.

    The Law of Tribulation forbade Judah (or any Israelite tribe) from ending a
    captivity by its own strength. Lev. 26:40-42 makes it clear that only when they
    repented of their hostility to Yahweh (Jesus) would God "remember" the
    covenant. In the 1800's, a few Jews decided to start a new movement to end
    the Jewish dispersion and to return to the old land. This was called Zionism.

    In 1947 the United Nations established a Jewish Homeland, but in 1948 the
    Zionists established a Jewish State. Why did God allow this, seeing that they
    had not ended their hostility against Jesus Christ?

    Many assumed that the Jews were Israelites. It was a case of mistaken identity.
    They did not realize that the dispersed Israelites had immigrated into Europe,
    America, and other parts of the world, and they were not Jews but Caucasians.

    In other words, their ancestors had sinned against God, and God had dispersed
    them into Assyria. He divorced them (Jer. 3:8) and sent them out of His house,
    removing also their birthright name, Israel. The only way to regain the lost
    birthright was through Jesus Christ.

    The Edomite spirit within Jewry desired to possess the old land (Ez. 36:2, 5). In
    fact, Malachi 1:1-4 prophesied that Edom would indeed succeed in returning to
    the old land and rebuilding a new nation. However, God said that in the end, He
    would destroy it. Mal. 1:4 says,

    4 Though Edom says, "We have been beaten down, but we
    will return and build up the ruins"; thus says the Lord of
    hosts, "They may build, but I will tear down..."

    Edom united with the evil figs of Judah and thereby fulfilled the above Zionist
    prophecy. In this way the prophecy to Esau was also fulfilled. Just as Jacob had
    obtained the birthright by a case of mistaken identity, so also did Esau later
    obtain the birthright by a case of mistaken identity. In both cases, they took
    advantage of the blindness of "Isaac," for Isaiah 42:19 says, "who is so blind
    but My servant?"

    God induced those physical descendants of Jacob to give back the birthright to
    the legal representatives of Esau-Edom in the latter days. With this transfer went
    the name Israel, and so the Jewish State took that name for itself as well.

    God Himself engineered this great deception by the law of "an eye for an eye"
    (Ex. 21:24). The judgment always fits the crime. Jacob's crime against Esau took
    advantage of Isaac's blindness, claiming to be Esau in order to get the birthright.
    So God blinded the descendants of Isaac and Jacob in order to allow Esau-Edom
    to regain the birthright by taking advantage of our blindness.

    It was therefore no sin for God to blind our eyes. It was simply a judgment of the
    Law. It was an eye for an eye applied prophetically on a large scale.

    In this way, God has satisfied Esau's appeal for justice. What they do not realize,
    of course, is that the original prophecy will yet come true. When the Edomite
    Zionists have fully proven themselves to be unworthy of the birthright, God will
    then transfer it to those worthy of it.

  13. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Thanks for your comments Logabe

    I would be interested to hear your thoughts on when you see this prophecy fulfilled? When will the two sticks be joined together?

  14. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Hi Vengle

    How is it going?

    I took a short break from our study and it is nice to see others have continued where we left off.

  15. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    I took a forced break myself.

    My monitor went on the fritz.

    I finally got another, a 23" flat screen LED, 1920 X 1080

    Wow what a difference over that old 13" tube!

    That tube had to be ran maxed out on all the controls just to see it.

    It finally arched out. The high voltage transformer fried.
  16. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    I am not sure what you are looking to see in the future logabe but that which you spoke of has been fullfilled in Christ:

    1 Peter 2:9-10 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."
  17. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Its an important question

    And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head. And they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

    When shall this take place?
  18. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    Hosea 1:11 "Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel."

    As Hosea's prophecy continues:

    Hosea 2:20-23 "I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
    21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
    22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
    23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God."

    Peter explained that for us:

    1 Peter 2:9-10 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

    It has been being fulfilled in Christ from the beginning days of the New Covenant.

    The valley of Jezreel is pictorial of some very spiritually important events involving King Ahab's unfaithfulness and the divinely ordered slaughter of Ahab's 70 sons. But it is also well known as a location where God demonstrated his power to save His people from out of the hands of their enemies.
  19. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    You will know that the House of Israel is spoken of as the harlot mother of Ruhamah, sentenced, and punished…and yet to be regathered and unified in the Promises found in Jesus Christ.

    It is clear from Hosea from time of old that the House of Israel first went after other lovers, and forgot Yahweh, he says concerning her, "Notwithstanding this, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And from thence will I give to her her vineyards, and the Valley of Achor for a door of hope; and she shall sing there as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt. And it shall be in that day, saith Jehovah, that thou (House of Israel) shalt call me Ishi (my husband), and shalt call me no more Baali (my Lord) . . . . And in that day will I make for them a covenant with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of the air, and with the reptiles of the ground; and the bow, and the sword, and war, will I destroy out of the land; and I will make them to lie down safely, and I will betroth thee, Ο Israel, unto me for ever" (Hos 1:6, 9,11; 2:14,15,16,17,18,19).

    This short prophecy reveals Yahweh’s intention to allure the tribes into the wilderness of the peoples.

    Notice how Israel will return to their vineyards from the wilderness, and not direct from the country of the enemy without passing through it. I also tells us that they will re-enter the land of Israel west of the Jordan, at the same point their ancestors did under Joshua, that is, north of Jericho, not far from Gilgal. We also know that Jesus Christ has split the Mount of Olives causing this valley to widen and therefore becomes a door of hope. It is through this passage they inherit the whole land, the object of their hope. Judah having already been discipline by the Gogian host we will find Jesus Christ and Judah awaiting the lost tribes of Israel as they enter the "A door of hope," where they shall finally appoint Jesus Christ their King as in the days of King David.

    In a truth only David and Jesus Christ have even been appointed King by both tribes to rule over them.

    Thus the sticks have been bought together and work for the Kingdom of God to spread across the whole earth shall begin.

    Not before much suffering.

  20. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    Never again will the wall that was torn down be reconstructed.

    Galatians 3:18 "For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    19 ¶Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
    20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

    Ephesians 2:4 "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

    Ephesians 2:4 "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

    Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14 ¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."


    Some have the same trouble as those of Paul's day who could not discern the true Israel of God for the fleshly Israel getting in their eyes.

    Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."


    There will be an Israel during that thousand years, but it won't be the one you see in the middle East today.

    It won't be the one that was visible to fleshly eyes back there in the first century, for that was not really Israel. The part that was real continued its existence in Christ. It never vanished. That is a part of the core teaching of Christ.

    The flesh will all (including those twelve tribes) be judged as one flesh: Galatians 3: 22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."

    When you preach that we are to look for a reformation of that flesh which was not really Israel you preach delusion. :)