. . . He also glorified.

[marks]

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

. . . them He also glorified.

Called . . . justified . . . glorified . . . all in past tense.

Is your justification already done?

Is your glorification already done?

Should we receive this just as it is written?

What does it mean to be "glorified"? What could it mean in our lives today?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Enoch111]

Is your glorification already done?

Only in God's foreknowledge. God sees the future as already accomplished and He sees those whom He has justified as being glorified in eternity. To be glorified is the same as to be "conformed to the image of His Son".Glorified means perfected, exalted, and also radiating light (thus becoming glorious).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1392: δοξάζω (doxazo)
4. By a use not found in secular writings to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendor...
a. to impart glory to something, render it excellent...
b. to make renowned, render illustrious...
c. to exalt to a glorious rank or condition...

 

[marks]

Only in God's foreknowledge. God sees the future as already accomplished and He sees those whom He has justified as being glorified in eternity. To be glorified is the same as to be "conformed to the image of His Son".Glorified means perfected, exalted, and also radiating light (thus becoming glorious).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1392: δοξάζω (doxazo)
4. By a use not found in secular writings to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendor...
a. to impart glory to something, render it excellent...
b. to make renowned, render illustrious...
c. to exalt to a glorious rank or condition...

Hi Enoch,

So essentially you are saying we should not accept it as it appears to be written but even though we read it as an already accomplished fact, we should understand it as a future occurrance?

Is there a way we could understand this passage as being true in it's face value sense? Do we have to deny the plain reading?

What did Jesus mean when He said, "Now is the time for the Son of Man to be glorified"?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Enoch111]

Is there a way we could understand this passage as being true in it's face value sense? Do we have to deny the plain reading?

Progressive sanctification leads to ultimate glorification. So that is one way to interpret it. But no one is glorified until they are perfected.

As to John 13:31,32, God was glorified (exalted) in the finished work of Christ on the cross, but Christ also anticipated His own resurrection, ascension, exaltation, and glorification after the cross: Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

 

[marks]

Progressive sanctification leads to ultimate glorification. So that is one way to interpret it. But no one is glorified until they are perfected.

As to John 13:31,32, God was glorified (exalted) in the finished work of Christ on the cross, but Christ also anticipated His own resurrection, ascension, exaltation, and glorification after the cross: Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

I think it has a lot to do with what we understand "glorified" to mean.

If it means, shining with a bright light, then yes, we need to wait.

If it means, displaying God's greatness and wisdom and power through a life made unto Him, given to Him, transformed by Him, used by Him, well, maybe the waiting isn't so much.

And if we accept that this Scripture teaches a reality, that God has glorified those whom He justified (is your justification waiting also?), then perhaps we have been glorified, not that we shine on the outside, but . . .

What can be said for a person whom God has recreated, and now lives in the heavenlies with Him? Is that glorified?

A new life, created in God's pattern, in righteousness, and true holiness. Isn't that glory?

Much love!
mark

 

[farouk]

I think it has a lot to do with what we understand "glorified" to mean.

If it means, shining with a bright light, then yes, we need to wait.

If it means, displaying God's greatness and wisdom and power through a life made unto Him, given to Him, transformed by Him, used by Him, well, maybe the waiting isn't so much.

And if we accept that this Scripture teaches a reality, that God has glorified those whom He justified (is your justification waiting also?), then perhaps we have been glorified, not that we shine on the outside, but . . .

What can be said for a person whom God has recreated, and now lives in the heavenlies with Him? Is that glorified?

A new life, created in God's pattern, in righteousness, and true holiness. Isn't that glory?

Much love!
mark

'...them He also glorified' is a quotation from Romans 8; good to look at the whole chapter!

 

[marks]

'...them He also glorified' is a quotation from Romans 8; good to look at the whole chapter!

Yes it is!

In this chapter we find that we have become completely and permanently joined to God, and that nothing will ever change that! Very good chapter!

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

A new life, created in God's pattern, in righteousness, and true holiness. Isn't that glory?

No. That is a new creature/creation in Christ. But that creature still has that old Adamic nature, therefore may sin from time to time. Glorification means PERFECTION. That happens at the Resurrection/Rapture.

 

[marks]

No. That is a new creature/creation in Christ. But that creature still has that old Adamic nature, therefore may sin from time to time. Glorification means PERFECTION. That happens at the Resurrection/Rapture.

So then the verb tense in Romans is inaccurate? Misleading?

What about our justification? Also not yet?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

So then the verb tense in Romans is inaccurate? Misleading?

I already told you that God -- in His divine foreknowledge -- sees the future as an accomplished fact. Therefore the tenses are from God's perspective.

 

[marks]

I already told you that God -- in His divine foreknowledge -- sees the future as an accomplished fact. Therefore the tenses are from God's perspective.

OK, I understand. Same for Justification?

Much love!

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 4:16 "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day."

God has been teaching us that all the dying and persecution and suffering in our Christian lives is not for nothing, it is making us like Jesus.

We see the decay of our bodies but we are encouraged to know that inside we are being renewed (restored to like-new) "day by day".

Something that is happening now.

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

Our afflictions work for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . . . when?

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

This is happening now.

Afflictions turning into glory. Trials into gold.

1 Corinthians 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

This way to escape, literally, the way out, as it were, of the sea, therefore indicating a destination. The safe harbor out of the storm, is the idea.

And that each peirasmos - testing/proving - trial/temptation - has it's own way. For every time we experience something contrary to us, that is, a difficult situation, painful, perplexing, of the desires of the flesh for evil, or whatever it is, God has a plan in mind.

That plan is for us to not sin, but to endure, looking to Him, intent on doing what is good. And in that enduring through afflictions, looking to God for whatever it is we need, we find He is faithful.

He never leaves us alone, He never just lets us flounder. He is always faithful!

And as we endure, we are perfected through the things we suffer, just like Jesus.

Every temptation, every testing, it's the same thing,

The inner man is being renewed day by day because our afflictions are working greater glory that lasts forever!

And this is happening now.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Nancy]

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

. . . them He also glorified.

Called . . . justified . . . glorified . . . all in past tense.

Is your justification already done?

Is your glorification already done?

Should we receive this just as it is written?

What does it mean to be "glorified"? What could it mean in our lives today?

Much love!
Mark

I've often wondered about sanctification being in the past tense too. Some say we are "being" sanctified and some say we already are. Of course, everything has already happened from an eternal view, or God's view...

1 Corinthians 6:11 "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

 

[Enoch111]

Some say we are "being" sanctified and some say we already are.

All three tenses apply. And the future tense means total perfection, which also means glorification.

 

[Enoch111]

OK, I understand. Same for Justification?

Justification is not a future accomplished fact but a past accomplished fact.
Therefore being [HAVING BEEN] justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ... (Rom 5:1) This is the same as Ephesians 2:8,9 and Romans 6:23. So the way to see this is:

JUSTIFICATION -- past tense (saved by grace)
SANCTIFICATION -- past, present, and future (delivered from sin)
GLORIFICATION -- future (but seen by God as accomplished already)

 

[marks]

I've often wondered about sanctification being in the past tense too. Some say we are "being" sanctified and some say we already are. Of course, everything has already happened from an eternal view, or God's view...

1 Corinthians 6:11 "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Hi Nancy,

I understand that we have been sanctified by new birth, born of God, righteous and holy, and that we are being sanctified, embodied in the instructions to "put off" the old man, and "put on" the new man. To me this means that the influence of the old man is to be rejected from my behavior and thoughts and all, the new man learning to exert control over the flesh.

I don't think that there's anything we need to look at and say, for instance, that "you were sanctified" only carries its full meaning for God, to Whom this has happened, but not happened in our life now. When God tells us, "you were sanctified", I think it should be understood in just that way.

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

Salvation this one time in an instant.

Sanctification starts and then lost a lot of time. It means growth in Christ.

 

[marks]

Justification is not a future accomplished fact but a past accomplished fact.
Therefore being [HAVING BEEN] justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ... (Rom 5:1) This is the same as Ephesians 2:8,9 and Romans 6:23. So the way to see this is:

JUSTIFICATION -- past tense (saved by grace)
SANCTIFICATION -- past, present, and future (delivered from sin)
GLORIFICATION -- future (but seen by God as accomplished already)

Hi Enoch,

That being the case, that Justification is in fact past, and Glorification being future, since both are taught with the same verb tense, how can we know from the text that Glorification is future, and Justification is past? Is there something that tells us this?

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi Enoch,

That being the case, that Justification is in fact past, and Glorification being future, since both are taught with the same verb tense, how can we know from the text that Glorification is future, and Justification is past? Is there something that tells us this?

Much love!
Mark

Because the Bible, when God's is speaking yesterday about tomorrow it is so sure it is already considered fulfilled.

 

[marks]

Because the Bible, when God's is speaking yesterday about tomorrow it is so sure it is already considered fulfilled.

OK, I understand the thinking, what I'm asking is this: Is there some distinction in the text of Scripture that shows Justified, being a past tense, is past, while Glorified, also a past tense verb, is not past tense for us?

I know the standard way to look at this passage is to read, those he justified, OK, he's done that, he also glorified, and OK, he's going to do that.

But for me, this means taking the plain reading of a simply stated Scripture and reversing it. I know that we need to understand all Scripture in light of the rest of Scripture, and I'm asking, what is the Scripture that teaches us that we should reverse the meaning of this verse for us?

Not meaning to sound silly or demeaning . . . I think that Scripture is written for our benefit, and so these things are there for us to learn from. And as I consider that glorification is a lot more than "shining", I don't know why I shouldn't understand those words in the exact same way I understand the words right next to them, that are written in the exact same way.

Our walk is by believing, not by seeing. We don't see our glory. But does that mean it's not there? Who are we really?

Much love!
Mark