. . . He also glorified.

[CoreIssue]

OK, I understand the thinking, what I'm asking is this: Is there some distinction in the text of Scripture that shows Justified, being a past tense, is past, while Glorified, also a past tense verb, is not past tense for us?

I know the standard way to look at this passage is to read, those he justified, OK, he's done that, he also glorified, and OK, he's going to do that.

But for me, this means taking the plain reading of a simply stated Scripture and reversing it. I know that we need to understand all Scripture in light of the rest of Scripture, and I'm asking, what is the Scripture that teaches us that we should reverse the meaning of this verse for us?

Not meaning to sound silly or demeaning . . . I think that Scripture is written for our benefit, and so these things are there for us to learn from. And as I consider that glorification is a lot more than "shining", I don't know why I shouldn't understand those words in the exact same way I understand the words right next to them, that are written in the exact same way.

Our walk is by believing, not by seeing. We don't see our glory. But does that mean it's not there? Who are we really?

Much love!
Mark

Justification is when God declared us just. Salvation when we were born again.

These are speaking of our spirits.

Glorification has nothing to do with the spirits. It is about our bodies, which will remain sinful old nature with all of its problems until the rapture. Then it will be made as clean as our spirits and the two will be united for eternity without conflict.

As for shining. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[marks]

Glorification has nothing to do with the spirits. It is about our bodies,

Can you show me Scripture on this?

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 YLT
And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty; and we all, with unvailed face, the glory of the Lord beholding in a mirror, to the same image are being transformed, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are being transformed into the same image, same as what? The glory of the Lord. We are being transformed into that image, from glory, to glory, literally, "from glory, into glory", and that by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are being transformed. This is a Present Tense Passive Voice, it's happening now, and it's being done to us. We are right now being transformed by God in the same image, that image, the glory of the Lord.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

As for shining. I'm not sure what you mean.

Daniel 12:3 "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

This reads like future.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Yes it is!

In this chapter we find that we have become completely and permanently joined to God, and that nothing will ever change that! Very good chapter!

Much love!

Romans 8 is a truly wonderful chapter; I heard exhortative preaching from it over Easter.

 

[marks]

Romans 8 is a truly wonderful chapter; I heard exhortative preaching from it over Easter.

Also in Romans 8 we find . . .

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Notice it does not say, glory that will be added to us . . . that we will be transformed into glory . . . What it does say is that glory shall be revealed in us. "Manifestation" is also translated from a word with the same root as "revealed", literally, from concealment, that is, uncover, reveal.

I believe we live in hidden glory. Hidden to our own eyes, hidden to each other. But glory just the same.

I believe this glory is chiefly characterized by the demonstration of God's goodness in our lives as we are submitted to to Him.

Romans 12:1-2 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

We don't conform to this world. Our minds are renewed to serve God, a living sacrifice of our bodies. That with which we interact with this world, with others.

Our bodies offered to God for service, we serve, and this demonstrates - proves - the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

When others see what God does through a life yielded to Him, then they see what a good God His is, and that His ways are best, to say the least.

It's just like Jesus, about to be arrested and tried, about to go the the cross, Now is the Son of Man glorified! God's great love, proven for all time, God's great redemption, lasting unto the ages, revealed to all humanity through God's Son offering His body in willing sacrifice. We are to do no less.

Romans 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

Daniel 12:3 "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

This reads like future.

Much love!

But remember to shine has many connotations. It does not always mean just the glow. It can also mean to stand out.

Obvious is also saying their crowns testified to them for eternity.

 

[marks]

But remember to shine has many connotations. It does not always mean just the glow. It can also mean to stand out.

Obvious is also saying their crowns testified to them for eternity.

That's why I like the added words of explanation to clarify: "Shine like the brightness of the sky", and "shine like the stars of heaven forever".

So I figure the sky is bright, we'll be bright, stars shine, we'll shine, same kind of shine. That is . . . IF. IF we are wise, IF we turn many to righteousness.

Jesus' face looked like lightening to John.

Jesus turns the most to righteousness, Jesus will shine brightest of all.

Shine can have many connotations, yes, but "shining stars" narrows that down.

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

That's why I like the added words of explanation to clarify: "Shine like the brightness of the sky", and "shine like the stars of heaven forever".

So I figure the sky is bright, we'll be bright, stars shine, we'll shine, same kind of shine. That is . . . IF. IF we are wise, IF we turn many to righteousness.

Jesus' face looked like lightening to John.

Jesus turns the most to righteousness, Jesus will shine brightest of all.

Shine can have many connotations, yes, but "shining stars" narrows that down.

Much love!
Mark

Remember stars also means Angels.

 

[marks]

Remember stars also means Angels.

Where is that?

Just the same, we still shine, does that not seem right to you?

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 15
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

 

[Nancy]

All three tenses apply. And the future tense means total perfection, which also means glorification.

Thank you Enoch, "all 3 tenses apply" - you are the second person to clarify this. I learned something new today @"ByGrace"

 

[CoreIssue]

Where is that?

Just the same, we still shine, does that not seem right to you?

Much love!
Mark

Angel are referred to as stars many times in the Bible.

As in Satan sweeping one third of the angels from heaven with this tail.

 

[farouk]

Yes it is!

In this chapter we find that we have become completely and permanently joined to God, and that nothing will ever change that! Very good chapter!

Much love!

Truly a treatise on the believer's eternal security, all through the glorious work of Christ!

 

[charity]

Hello @marks,

Have you noticed, that in scripture suffering and glory go hand in hand? Where you see the one, the other is within the context. I confess that I do not yet understand the meaning of 'glory', but I am seeking to know. Sanctification has the meaning also of being, 'set apart' unto God, hasn't it? We are 'set apart' unto God as an accomplished fact; yet we are also being sanctified on a daily basis, in our experience.

In regard to our 'standing' before God, all is accomplished in Christ Jesus, it is a finished work.
In regard to our 'state' it is an on-going work of the Holy Spirit - we are being conformed to the image of His Son.

Praise God!

Thank you for this discussion, for it's content and it's tone. I have enjoyed reading it through.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

Hello @marks,

Have you noticed, that in scripture suffering and glory go hand in hand? Where you see the one, the other is within the context. Sanctification has the meaning also of being, 'set apart' unto God, hasn't it? We are 'set apart' unto God as an accomplished fact, yet we are also being sanctified on a daily basis, in our experience.

In regard to our 'standing' before God, all is accomplished in Christ Jesus, it is a finished work.
In regard to our 'state' it is an on-going work of the Holy Spirit - we are being conformed to the image of His Son.

Praise God!

Thank you for this discussion, for it's content and it's tone. I have enjoyed reading it through.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

1 Peter 1.11 speaks of 'the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow'.

 

[charity]

1 Peter 1.11 speaks of 'the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow'.

'Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time
the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed,
that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things,
which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you
with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;
which things the angels desire to look into.'
(1 Peter 1:10-12)

Yes, thank you, @farouk.

* What a glorious passage of Scripture this is?

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[farouk]

'Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time
the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed,
that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things,
which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you
with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;
which things the angels desire to look into.'
(1 Peter 1:10-12)

Yes, thank you, @farouk.

* What a glorious passage of Scripture this is?

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Indeed; and the famous Isaiah 53 passage - among others in the Old Testament - is also so clear about the sufferings of Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To be glorified is the same as to be "conformed to the image of His Son".

Glorified means perfected,

also radiating light (thus becoming glorious).

to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendor...

to impart glory to something, render it excellent...

to exalt to a glorious rank or condition...

“...to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendor...” ...Charity seen in the Son who was perfect as His Father in Heaven was perfect.

Oddly all your quotes about make me consider the love He fully demonstrated to the world. Intense light...glorious splendor...which blinded Paul whom persecuted until he saw that light. Light God said was Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ....

Matthew 22:37-39
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Hebrews 5:8-9
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

“to impart glory to something, render it excellent..” 1 Corinthians 12:31
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

 

[marks]

Angel are referred to as stars many times in the Bible.

As in Satan sweeping one third of the angels from heaven with this tail.

I don't want to get into the angels on this thread please, I'd like to stay with the topic of glory.

But I understand your thinking of glory as position or honour, like that, is that right?

Much love!