He is a Jew, He is not a Jew: the physical seed of promise

[robert derrick]

Where is the part about casting away Israel? This prince is going to lose his crown. But what of the nation?

Much love!

Good job. This could be an antichrist, or the antichrist. I haven't remembered this Scripture before.

And there is the 666 type 'taken away' repetition. I have suspected the last great antichrist will be a traitor to God and His people, having once been one of His greatest ministers, such as Lucifer: a personal protégé of the dragon. The greatest deceiver and destroyer to the faith and believers ever.

There will be a great falling away towards the end: falling away from the faith due to the beast's rise. Tribulation has always been used by God to purify His people, and the remnant are them that abide with Him to the end.

So, this Scripture could be one that was of Israel and was Israel and then was not Israel, but a destroyer of Israel of God. As paul, they that are of Israel, are not all Israel.

He that was a minister of righteousness, and is not ministering righteousness of God, and yet is ministering his own righteousness as God.

Satan himself transforms into an angel of light, a prince of Israel.

 

[robert derrick]

Where is the part about casting away Israel? This prince is going to lose his crown. But what of the nation?

Much love!

I will give again the Scriptures where all are cast away, but the most defining one being that Lord Himself prophesied it, that they would all forsake Him. (John 6)

All were concluded in unbelief and broken off, though not all were blinded, and not all slew Him in ignorance, as did Saul of Tarsus consenting to Stephen's death.

There was always a remnant through their history that remained faithful, whether in the wilderness, the land of David, or Babylon, but at the cross the Scripture was fulfilled that none were counted a faithful remnant, none were good, none were profitable, no, not one (Rom 3:10-12), there were no righteous nor people of faith, nor of promise, during the three days of the grave.

Who stood by Him? Who was waiting faithfully for Him to rise again? The women went to care for His corpse, not to see Him rise again. The only ones there at his resurrection were enemy guards.

Scripture shows none of them that had confessed faith believed Him about rising again:

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? (Luke 24)

At this point, they can be grafted in again, but only after they had seen Him resurrected, and blessed are they that believe and have not seen.

Where there is no faithful seed, there is no remnant of promise: the promise of God cannot be separated from His faith. The mercy of God would restore a remnant after His resurrection, but there was no such 'remnant' abiding faithful during the grave.

 

[robert derrick]

Where is the part about casting away Israel? This prince is going to lose his crown. But what of the nation?

Much love!

There was no remnant, because there was no covenant to remain in.

This prophecy is of the Lord Himself breaking the covenant:

The highways lie waste, the wayfaring man ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.The earth mourneth and languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed and hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off their fruits. (Is 33:8-9)

The covenant of the Lord was broken by the Lord by dying, therefore no remnant of that covenant. There can be no other 'man', than Jesus on the cross, that can have broken the covenant, as in the covenant itself is broken. Gone. No more.

This Scripture is the fulfillment of Jeremiah 33:

Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers. (Jerem 33)

This single Scripture is different from all the rest, where the Lord declared the people to have broken His covenant:

(They) refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. (Jerem 11)

The God of Israel's covenant was broken by them that slew Him, both with them and with day and night: The God of Israel called Jehovah was dead: his covenant was no more day and night, no more than any other dead in the grave have anything to do with day and night:

Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

After the resurrection from the dead of the risen God of Israel, Jesus Christ, the seed of flesh could return from their bondage under Hagar, to that of promise once again, as Isaac, but not abiding in unbelief.

 

[Davy]

More mantra from mantraman:

Is he a Jew that is one outwardly? Is outward circumcision in the flesh, circumcision?

Is there one inwardly circumcised and is not a Jew?

Are there any that say they are Jews, but are not and are liars?

Is Israel after the flesh, Israel of God? Are the children of flesh, the children of promise of God?

Are the brethren of the King of Israel not of Israel? Are the children of the God of Israel not children of Israel?

Are the children of Abraham counted for the seed, not the seed of promise?

Is the holy olive tree the Israel of God? What are the Gentiles coming in to?

You keep going back to Apostle Paul's analogy about either being in Christ (spiritual Jew), or a follower of the devil (not in Christ), none of which regards the separate topic about the Jude 1 crept in unawares of pagan foreigners in among bloodline Israelites per Old Testament history.

 

[Davy]

I know that being forced to ditch our cherished prophecies is difficult. I probably spent as much time diving into those prophecies as you. But when Scripture plainly confronts us with a new mind on the matter, we either bow to Scripture and have a new mind, or we start digging a ditch of our own making to keep a prophecy of our own mind.

I bow to Scripture, you idolize your own mind of prophecy.

I see all Scripture, especially prophecy of Scripture, through the clear glass of Jesus' words by His apostles. You see all Scripture, especially prophecy of Scripture, through a dark vail of flesh.

They who call themselves Jews of God, and are liars, still read Moses of old with Moses' vail upon their hearts, and abide still in unbelief of Jesus. You, who think yourself to be a prophet of prophecy, and are blind, still read prophecies of old with the vail of a seed after the flesh over your mind, and abide still in unbelief of Jesus' words by His apostles:

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

They who call themselves Jews and are lying, are now they born of Abraham and Hagar after the flesh. The old seed after the flesh of Abraham and Sarah no longer exist with God. With false prophets? Yes. Not with God.

Not even close to showing that you know anything about the subject of the 'crept in unawares' written in Old Testament history. You apparently don't even realize why Apostle Paul called it a "mystery" (i.e., "mystery of iniquity"). What I said about your lack of Old Testament Bible study on this topic stands, so all your falsehoods you keep making up in vain attempts at retaliation is just that, a show of vanity, and of course Biblical illiteracy.

 

[robert derrick]

Where is the part about casting away Israel? This prince is going to lose his crown. But what of the nation?

Much love!

What I see is two different prophecies for two different 'last days': the first being that of the promised seed of flesh, where there is no remnant abiding through it, and the next being that of the promised seed by faith, where there is a remnant saved. I have focused on the first, you have focused on the next

Even as there were prophesies of the Promised One applied to His first coming and His next coming, with the first being hidden in mystery, and the next being most expected, so there are prophesies pertaining to his coming that apply to a different people of promise.

You have quoted those of a partial destruction with a remnant reserved and saved. Here are some of a complete undoing without remnant:

Isaiah 30: All are addressed by the Lord as rebellious children with no profit (As with Romans 3:10-12). They are all as a breach and a potter's vessel broken to pieces with none to spare, nor shard to recover.

Isaiah 33:8-10: the covenant is broken by the Lord's death, all languish: Lebanon hewn down, Sharon a wilderness, Bashan and carmel without fruits: I.e. all branches of the green olive tree broken off.

And Jeremiah 11 speaks of all that promised seed fulfilling Proverbs 1:24-32,

Though a conspiracy was found among Judah and Jerusalem: the house of Israel and of Judah are all concluded to have broken His covenant:

Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.

The Lord proceeds to calling the two houses a green olive tree, that He had planted, and a fire is kindled upon it, and all the branches broken.

That fire being the Redeemer's first coming, like a lamb led to slaughter, where they were set to cut down the tree itself and cut off the Lord forever: the cross, to remember the name of Jesus no more forever:

And so, there are two different comings and two different results in the 'last days':

The first and beginning of the last days is a complete breaking of the first covenant with the death of the God of Israel, who's name was Jehovah, and a complete breaking away of the house of Israel and of Jacob He made covenant with: Israel after the flesh.

The next and end of the last days is a partial falling away of grafted house of Israel and of Jacob in the new covenant of the risen God of Israel, who's name is now Jesus, with a remnant remaining one earth and alive to be resurrected with the dead in Christ, which includes all the faithful seed of promise from Seth to them of the First Covenant to then of the New Testament.

That first resurrection of the just in likeness of Christ, will occur at His coming into the air, at the end of the last great tribulation on earth, where even to the last hour of judgment there will be them that repent at th epreaching of the Gospel of the cross by the angel in mid-heaven to ALL inhabitors of the earth:

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Rev 14:13-16)

This is the Lord's return in the air and the first resurrection and rise of all His saints from that of Seth to those alive and remaining on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

Not even close to showing that you know anything about the subject of the 'crept in unawares' written in Old Testament history. You apparently don't even realize why Apostle Paul called it a "mystery" (i.e., "mystery of iniquity"). What I said about your lack of Old Testament Bible study on this topic stands, so all your falsehoods you keep making up in vain attempts at retaliation is just that, a show of vanity, and of course Biblical illiteracy.

Still haven't answered the basics:

Is he a Jew that is one inwardly? Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?

What are they grafted into and come in? Is not the green olive tree of the God of Israel, the Israel of God?

Mantra and rubbish and spite is all you have, until you do.

Fortunately I have been learning much from a far better man that you, so far better as is a man from a petulant child:

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[Davy]

Still haven't answered the basics:

Is he a Jew that is one inwardly? Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?

What are they grafted into and come in? Is not the green olive tree of God of Israel, the Israel of God?

Mantra and rubbish and spite is all you have, until you do.

You're just not prepared in Bible study enough to discuss the subject of the "mystery of iniquity", so hang in up.

 

[robert derrick]

You're just not prepared in Bible study enough to discuss the subject of the "mystery of iniquity", so hang in up.

This thread is still about what is a jew and what is not and the seed of promise.

Either respond like an adult to the first basic I gave, or scat. It was refreshing not to have you hear for a while.

Seriously, how old are you?

 

[robert derrick]

Is that so? Cannot God do as He pleases? Must He please you?

Much love!

Must He please you?

Why this remark?

In any case, I'm not sure what your point is. So, if you would explain more and show Scripture how it could be, then we can go on with it.

 

[robert derrick]

I think God is restoring us to innocence.

Much love!

True. We are instantly forgiven, sanctified, and redeemed, and imputed righteousness without sin, and have right to the tree of life in the midst of the garden.

 

[marks]

Must He please you?

Why this remark?

In any case, I'm not sure what your point is. So, if you would explain more and show Scripture how it could be, then we can go on with it.

Sorry if that came across wrong . . . but what I'm saying is, you are suggesting that God would have to make a new covenant to do something different, and I'm just trying to say that this sounds like your rule and not necessarily His.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

Matthew 25:31-40 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

These do the required works, and for that, they are received.

Matthew 25:41-46 KJV
41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

These do not do the required works, and for that, they are cast out to eternal punishment.

Salvation based on their works.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Is this different?

Much love!

Ok, thanks. I see now. The earth with the Lord's reign with His resurrected saints. I have looked too much at it. But it certainly is not before His return on earth and defeat of the armies gathered against Him.

It certainly shows a judgment for those inhabitors that were left on earth and survived the battle of Armageddon. Maybe they survived in the dens and the rocks at the wrath of the Lamb?

Would these be naturally born peacemakers that inherit the earth, where the lion lays down with the Lamb?

And so yes, you are right, this would be another children of promise: a promise made by Jesus on earth to all flesh? Different to the promise of the fathers made to Abraham, being fulfilled now in Christ.

Is this different?

It certainly shows good works that are not by faith of Jesus, since they didn't even know they were doing good to His body.

And every man shall be judged according to his works.

Naturally born sinners that did good and were not evil-doers? (Such as I was. I have never been a murderer, rapist, thug, lover of violence, man-steeler, not even busybody in other's affairs. A born liar and thief? Yes. But only to protect my hide, and only with big chain supermarkets! But I certainly would help my neighbor in time of need)

 

[robert derrick]

Sorry if that came across wrong . . . but what I'm saying is, you are suggesting that God would have to make a new covenant to do something different, and I'm just trying to say that this sounds like your rule and not necessarily His.

Much love!

I saw your other post, and responded, and so you are correct. The children of promise as peacemakers remaining on earth during His reign called His sheep also, would not be of either covenant old nor new, and not necessarily of any covenant at all?

Good job. Worth looking into. Maybe it leads to them of the eternal future in new heaven and earth, and the 'nations' entering in the City?

 

[marks]

Would these be naturally born peacemakers that inherit the earth, where the lion lays down with the Lamb?

The Bible tells us exactly who they are.

Jesus will divide the nations by whether they did or did not care for the needs of the Jews, Jesus' brothers. Direct personal action, providing food and water, clothing, medical and emotional care, all the things Jesus listed.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

The Bible tells us exactly who they are.

Jesus will divide the nations by whether they did or did not care for the needs of the Jews, Jesus' brothers. Direct personal action, providing food and water, clothing, medical and emotional care, all the things Jesus listed.

Much love!

Thank you. You just sealed the deal on what a Jew is: a brother of Jesus.

Who were and are Jesus' brethren?

They were:
My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

They are:
...go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Uncircumcised unbelievers are not the brethren of Jesus, and the so-called 'Jews' that you speak of, would be offended at your suggestion that they are. To those liars, that call themselves Jews, and are not, Jesus still deserves death for blasphemy.

Are they your brethren? If they are Jesus brethren, and if you are not hearer only, then you are their brethren. And so you speak of inward Jews only, because there is no Jew that is outward.

Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm are now the anointed in Christ Jesus.

You have given me another yes/no question to add to the list:

Who were and are Jesus' brethren?

Do you have an answer? And you still haven't answered the others.

Is he a Jew that is one outwardly? Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?

What are the uncircumcised come in to, when grafted into the green olive tree of God, which He called the house of Israel and of Jacob?

 

[robert derrick]

The Bible tells us exactly who they are.

Jesus will divide the nations by whether they did or did not care for the needs of the Jews, Jesus' brothers. Direct personal action, providing food and water, clothing, medical and emotional care, all the things Jesus listed.

Much love!

And you have now tied the Jews, which are the children of Israel, to the seed of Abraham, from which you have tried to disassociate them in the past, in order to keep Christians from being the children of the Israel of God, and Jews inwardly. (I.e. the olive tree being Abraham, and the seed of promise are not the children of Israel...)

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The promised seed of Abraham was Christ, and now that seed in Christ, and they are Jesus' brethren, so that those nations who di good with Christians, shall be blessed, and those that do not shall be cursed.

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

The circumcised unbelievers that falsely call themselves Jews are not the blessed promised seed of Abraham, but just another nation of people on earth. And if they abide in unbelief, then they curse themselves by promise of the God of Israel.

The promise of God works both ways, and is a sword with two-edges: we are blessed if we do His Word, and we are cursed if we do not.

Jesus became the curse for all them that believe and obey Him. All the rest are cursed with a curse of their own doing.

The ones still trying to call themselves Jews today by flesh are still cursing themselves.

 

[robert derrick]

The conclusion so far is:

There has been since the birth of the sons of Israel and still are two people of Israel: the Israel born after the flesh and the Israel of God born after the Spirit as was Isaac: Them called Israel by birth of flesh, and them that are called by God my people Israel.

Israel after the flesh is in name only and are not the Israel of God: not they of Israel are all Israel. (Rom 9:6) Being of Israel by birth does not make us Israel of God, which has always been only by the faith and promise of Abraham, as was Isaac, and as was Jacob. (Rom 9:10-13)

The unbelievers born of Israel answer to the prophecies and curse of condemnation. They are born to be called Israel, but by unbelief and disobedience, they are cursed from Israel of God. (Deut 11:32-34)

The Israel of God are them that the God of Israel calls my people Israel, and they by faith and patient obedience obtain the promise, and answer to the prophecies of promise.

There is an Israel by birth in name only, and there is the Israel of God and called by Him, my people Israel.

The first prophesies of condemnation and the casting away of all flesh came with Jesus on the cross: all were no good and of no profit with the God of Israel at the cross. All forsook Him and were concluded in unbelief.

The next prophecies of condemnation and falling away in part will come upon all the called Israel of God after the Spirit: many shall be deceived and forsake the Lamb of God, even as all them of the flesh did at the cross.

The prophesies of blessing were and remain are upon all them that remain faithfully doers His Word to the end: they are the Israel of God, my people Israel, that are the dead in Christ and them that are alive and remain at His coming in the air.

Prophecy of condemnation to Israel of birth, but are not Israel of God:

They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

Prophecy of promise to Israel of God by faith:

By the hand of my servant David I will save my people Israel out of the hand of the Philistines, and out of the hand of all their enemies.

Nowhere in Scripture is my people Israel ever spoken of with prophesy of condemnation. My people Israel called by the God of Israel are all they of faith, that keep the promise of blessing to the end.

Question:

How is there a people of the God of Israel, that are not my people Israel?

 

[robert derrick]

Mystery Babylon:

Them that are called Israel by birth is both after the flesh and after the Spirit: There are they that call themselves Israel born after the flesh, and there are thay that God calls them Israel after the Spirit, but not all they that be called of Israel by birth, whether after the flesh or after the Spirit, are all Israel of God.

As all they that were all broken off, born after the flesh, so are they in part broken off, that are born after the Spirit.

Two prophecies of condemnation: First, for all they born after the flesh, and next, for many of them born after the Spirit.

Part of the reason Israel after the flesh was all broken off, was so that the uncircumcised might come in, and the reason part of them grafted in are broken off, is that all Israel might be saved: All that are called Israel, are Israel.

The Green Olive Tree of the God of Israel and the Vine of Christ will one day be perfectly pruned, with no unbelieving uncircumcised of heart and dead branches left hanging.

That time will be the first resurrection of the just in the likeness of Christ, immediately after the last great tribulation of man upon saints on earth.

Mystery Babylon is all they that were of Israel, and are not Israel, and yet are still called Israel by men. (Rev 17:8)

They are the wicked princes of Israel by birth, and are not Israel of God by faith, and yet rule as God over His people Israel:

And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

666 is the number of the false christ and false prophet and false teacher of Christ, thrice overturned and exposed as false by Scripture, and the number of his name is Israel in name only, and yet he still prophecies in his own name after his own mind (Num 16:28), and is believed by his own proselytes, whose hearts are vailed with that of flesh pertaining to a seed of promise, which is not of promise, but of cursing:

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse. A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. (Deut 11)

 

[Davy]

Can't re-write The Bible.

The scribes of Israel were of the Kenites, a people of the land of Canaan, and they claimed to be Jews by the time of Jesus' 1st coming.

Per Ezra, some foreigners taken captive with the kingdom of Judah to Babylon had become priests. And many of the Jewish leaders had taken wives of the Canaanites and had children by them.

In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, Jesus said He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" who say they are Jews, but do lie and are not, that He will make them come worship at the feet of His elect.

In the day when Lord Jesus returns to this earth, God's House will be cleansed of the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan"...

Zech 14:21
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV