He is a Jew, He is not a Jew: the physical seed of promise

[robert derrick]

Rev 21:10-12
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
KJV

You mean in Christ's future Kingdom on earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from God out of Heaven, the 12 tribes of Israel are still going to be mentioned, and not the many system denominations of man???

That's right. And even Christ's 12 Apostles are going to sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
KJV

So who are the philosophers who say God's promises and covenants to Israel that He gave their fathers is no longer to their literal seed?

Saying that every soul MUST believe on Jesus Christ to be saved is one thing, and is true. But saying God's promises and covenants to Israel are gone that He first gave through His Old Testament prophets, and that Lord Jesus Himself gave, is blasphemy against God's Word. I'm not even Jewish and I say this, because God Himself said it...

Jer 31:35-37
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.

37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
KJV

This thread is about who is a Jew with God, and what is Israel of God, according to the Scriptures of the New Testament:

Is he a Jew that is one outwardly? Is outward circumcision in the flesh, circumcision?

Is there one inwardly circumcised and is not a Jew?

Are there any that say they are Jews, but are not and are liars?

Is Israel after the flesh, Israel of God? Are the children of flesh, the children of promise of God?

Are the brethren of the King of Israel not of Israel? Are the children of the God of Israel not children of Israel?

Are the children of Abraham counted for the seed, not the seed of promise?

Is the holy olive tree the Israel of God? What are the Gentiles coming in to?

Otherwise, you are free to keep up the old mantra of your prophesies you love. Perhaps, you can start another thread with it. And though it is a free board here to post what you like, I at least try to stick to the topic started, out of respect to them that started them.

 

[Davy]

And YES there is a 'spiritual' Israel group represented by believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. So forget what those philosophers say about it, they don't keep God's Holy Writ.

Proof?

One of the best Biblical proofs is in Romans 9 where Apostle Paul showed that God's Israel is not of the flesh. His promises and covenants are still to the seed of Israel (that believe on Christ), but in no way does that mean those are taken away in Christ (notice my post above quoting Jesus about His 12 Apostles sitting on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom).

In Romans 9:24-26, Paul also quoted from the Book of Hosea ("Osee") to those Gentile Roman believers he was speaking to.

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
KJV

Thing is, God gave that prophecy specifically to the 'seed' of the "house of Israel" through His prophet Hosea. That's about the ten northern tribes of Israel when they fell to Baal worship against our Heavenly Father, and He caused them to be removed from the land and scattered amongst the Gentiles. That is when He called those ten tribes, "Lo ami", which means 'not My people'. But in final, pointing to the last days, He said He would make a new covenant with them, and they would no longer call Him Baali, but Ishi. Then He would call them 'My people', or "children of the living God".

Well Apostle Paul applied that Hosea prophecy about the 'seed' of the house of Israel to believing Gentiles also! So what you think that means? It means Christ's Church of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles as one body in Christ Jesus.

It means God's promises and covenants STILL APPLY TO THE SEED OF ISRAEL that believe, and also to believing Gentiles grafted in with them.

 

[Davy]

This thread is about who is a Jew with God, and what is Israel of God, according to the Scriptures of the New Testament:

Is he a Jew that is one outwardly? Is outward circumcision in the flesh, circumcision?

Well, I guess I showed from Scripture the answer to who is a Jew inwardly! Christ's 12 Apostles were Jews while in their flesh, and now they are spiritual Jews also, and will judge the 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL IN CHRIST'S FUTURE KINGDOM OF ISRAEL.

 

[robert derrick]

Well, I guess I showed from Scripture the answer to who is a Jew inwardly! Christ's 12 Apostles were Jews while in their flesh, and now they are spiritual Jews also, and will judge the 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL IN CHRIST'S FUTURE KINGDOM OF ISRAEL.

I appreciate you attempting to address the original subject of the thread: Who is a Jew with God, and who is Israel of God; however, this has already been established and never disputed: those abiding not in unbelief are grafted in again to God's holy fig tree and so are Jews with God by inward circumcision in the spirit and faith of Jesus, and so are Israel of God with all grafted in by inward circumcision.

And so, once again:

"I showed from Scripture the answer to who is a Jew inwardly. Christ's 12 Apostles were Jews while in their flesh."

Is he a Jew that is one outwardly in the flesh? Is there one inwardly circumcised and is not a Jew?

Is the holy olive tree the Israel of God? What is natural uncircumcision, Gentiles, come in to?

Is he a Jew that is one inwardly, and is not come in to the Israel of God?

 

[robert derrick]

Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. (Hosea 1)

The old seed of promise by flesh, through unbelief and crucifixion of the Christ who called them from the mount, made themselves not a people of God, and uncircumcision from God.

There is no more circumcision, that is circumcision outward. There is only circumcision, that is inward.

Therefore, at the cross, all are concluded in unbelief and uncircumcision: there is none that doeth good, no not one, and there is none that are circumcised without Christ, no not one.

Therefore, at the cross and for several days after before His resurrection, there were no people of God nor seed of promise, even as there was no faith of God on earth, for even His own chosen apostles did not believe in His word of resurrection on the 3rd day, and still would not believe except by sight.

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)

At the cross, none were a people of the God of Israel, but now all can become the people of God in Israel and obtain mercy by faith of Jesus. This includes all uncircumcision, whether it be they who were in time past uncircumcision by nature, and they who made themselves uncircumcision by unbelief and transgression.

Now all Israel is saved, since the Deliverer has come out of Sion, and there be many more come in by faith with circumcision of God in the heart. There are none in Israel today born after the flesh, but all such are in name only, even as they say they are Jews by outward circumcision and are liars still against Jesus. (Rev 2:9, 3:9)

They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9)

Unless:
1. He is a Jew, that is one outwardly.

2. There is circumcision, that is outwardly in the flesh.

2. There is a people of God after the flesh. There is a people of God, that are not of the God of Israel.

3. There is a children of the flesh, that are the children of Israel, but are not the children of God. There is an Israel after the flesh, that is not of God, but are the children of promise of the God of Israel. There is a God, who is not the God of Israel.

4. The Deliverer out of Sion has not come.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay

 

[MatthewG]

The matter is that some in the Church like to stay ignorant of God's promises and covenants to the 'seed' of Israel while pointing to their church 'system' as the only ones that will be saved by Jesus.

There's even an old joke about some of those; a believer on Christ dies and goes to Heaven, and sees a great high wall in Heaven and asks, "what's that wall for, who's on the other side of it?" He is then told, "Oh, that's for the xxxxx xx xxxxxx denomination, they like to think they're the only ones here."

Today was informed that forums can be like that of going to bathroom stalls… and used to write mean and hateful things about others. Back in the 60s or earlier you know how people would go write mean things in the bathroom stalls. Sometimes forums sites are like that. Sometimes people just believe they are doing the will of God by using scripture over and over in long post as though people are going to read it.

Anyway just a thought thank you for your reply.

 

[robert derrick]

Today was informed that forums can be like that of going to bathroom stalls… and used to write mean and hateful things about others. Back in the 60s or earlier you know how people would go write mean things in the bathroom stalls. Sometimes forums sites are like that. Sometimes people just believe they are doing the will of God by using scripture over and over in long post as though people are going to read it.

Anyway just a thought thank you for your reply.

True. I try to post what I believe Scripture is saying, not what I've been taught to believe scripture is saying. This way we avoid mantras of tradition.

I also try to do so shortly, but need working on that.

 

[MatthewG]

Yeah most believe that probably I don’t have a problem with but don’t like wasting time.

 

[Davy]

Today was informed that forums can be like that of going to bathroom stalls… and used to write mean and hateful things about others. Back in the 60s or earlier you know how people would go write mean things in the bathroom stalls. Sometimes forums sites are like that. Sometimes people just believe they are doing the will of God by using scripture over and over in long post as though people are going to read it.

Anyway just a thought thank you for your reply.

My point was actually how some so-called churches leave much of The Word of God and instead follow their own set of drummed-up ideas and doctrines outside of God's Word. Those places God's Word calls 'beth-avens', which means 'house of vanity.'

 

[robert derrick]

And YES there is a 'spiritual' Israel group represented by believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. So forget what those philosophers say about it, they don't keep God's Holy Writ.

Proof?

One of the best Biblical proofs is in Romans 9 where Apostle Paul showed that God's Israel is not of the flesh. His promises and covenants are still to the seed of Israel (that believe on Christ), but in no way does that mean those are taken away in Christ (notice my post above quoting Jesus about His 12 Apostles sitting on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom).

In Romans 9:24-26, Paul also quoted from the Book of Hosea ("Osee") to those Gentile Roman believers he was speaking to.

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
KJV

Thing is, God gave that prophecy specifically to the 'seed' of the "house of Israel" through His prophet Hosea. That's about the ten northern tribes of Israel when they fell to Baal worship against our Heavenly Father, and He caused them to be removed from the land and scattered amongst the Gentiles. That is when He called those ten tribes, "Lo ami", which means 'not My people'. But in final, pointing to the last days, He said He would make a new covenant with them, and they would no longer call Him Baali, but Ishi. Then He would call them 'My people', or "children of the living God".

Well Apostle Paul applied that Hosea prophecy about the 'seed' of the house of Israel to believing Gentiles also! So what you think that means? It means Christ's Church of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles as one body in Christ Jesus.

It means God's promises and covenants STILL APPLY TO THE SEED OF ISRAEL that believe, and also to believing Gentiles grafted in with them.

Thing is, God gave that prophecy specifically to the 'seed' of the "house of Israel" through His prophet Hosea. That's about the ten northern tribes of Israel when they fell to Baal worship against our Heavenly Father,

Peter confirms this prophecy was for the Gentiles,a nd any people that were not His people. (1 Peter 2:10)

Which includes any people born after the flesh, that know not God, but repent and believe the Gospel.

The old seed of promise by flesh made themselves uncircumcision with God, and became Gentiles to God that know not God: they who abide still in unbelief worshipping in the false 'Jews religion' are among them that are not a people with God, which includes any northern kingdom by the flesh that may still be around.

There is no difference in the seed of flesh on earth. The only difference is they who are grafted in to the Israel of God by the King of Israel and the God of Israel.

Paul showed that God's Israel is not of the flesh.

There are two Israels mentioned in Scripture of the apostles: Israel after the flesh, and Israel of God.

Israel after the flesh is in name only, even as Paul's kinsmen after the flesh were in flesh only.

The Israel of God is now all seed of promise as Isaac was by faith and born after the Spirit. There is no seed of promise born after the flesh: that seed of Abraham by flesh is no as Ishmael by Hagar.

The old seed of promise by flesh has been wiped away from the earth as a dish turned upside down, along was the Old Covenant made specially to them: it is done away and vanished completely.

One earth today there is ISrael of God and Jews with God born of circumcision of the heart, and there are those born after the flesh calling themselves Israel and Jews in name only, and they are lying in the face of the Lord. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

 

[robert derrick]

And YES there is a 'spiritual' Israel group represented by believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. So forget what those philosophers say about it, they don't keep God's Holy Writ.

Proof?

One of the best Biblical proofs is in Romans 9 where Apostle Paul showed that God's Israel is not of the flesh. His promises and covenants are still to the seed of Israel (that believe on Christ), but in no way does that mean those are taken away in Christ (notice my post above quoting Jesus about His 12 Apostles sitting on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom).

In Romans 9:24-26, Paul also quoted from the Book of Hosea ("Osee") to those Gentile Roman believers he was speaking to.

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
KJV

Thing is, God gave that prophecy specifically to the 'seed' of the "house of Israel" through His prophet Hosea. That's about the ten northern tribes of Israel when they fell to Baal worship against our Heavenly Father, and He caused them to be removed from the land and scattered amongst the Gentiles. That is when He called those ten tribes, "Lo ami", which means 'not My people'. But in final, pointing to the last days, He said He would make a new covenant with them, and they would no longer call Him Baali, but Ishi. Then He would call them 'My people', or "children of the living God".

Well Apostle Paul applied that Hosea prophecy about the 'seed' of the house of Israel to believing Gentiles also! So what you think that means? It means Christ's Church of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles as one body in Christ Jesus.

It means God's promises and covenants STILL APPLY TO THE SEED OF ISRAEL that believe, and also to believing Gentiles grafted in with them.

And YES there is a 'spiritual' Israel group represented by believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus.

And where does Holy writ say that? 'Spiritual israel'. 'Israel in spirit'. 'Israel born of the Spirit'.?

There is Israel after the flesh, which is in name only, and there is the Israel of God which is true with God and filled with all them born of God by faith of Abraham as was Isaac.

'Spiritual Israel' is a myth made up by people who cling to their own prophecies, which require a continued seed of promise born of flesh. But since all believing Jesus are now come in to the Israel of God: the holy olive tree of God, then they must translate that literal fact into 'spiritual' only.

A 'spiritual Israel' apart from the flesh is like a 'spiritual body of Christ' apart from the natural bodies of believers.

The physical seed of promise today are all them born of God by faith in natural bodies, counted for the seed of Abraham and of promise.

There is no more seed born of flesh in natural bodies, who are also of promise, nor of Abraham, as was Isaac. All such are uncircumcised unbelievers that know not God: Gentiles from God.

 

[robert derrick]

And YES there is a 'spiritual' Israel group represented by believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. So forget what those philosophers say about it, they don't keep God's Holy Writ.

Proof?

One of the best Biblical proofs is in Romans 9 where Apostle Paul showed that God's Israel is not of the flesh. His promises and covenants are still to the seed of Israel (that believe on Christ), but in no way does that mean those are taken away in Christ (notice my post above quoting Jesus about His 12 Apostles sitting on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom).

In Romans 9:24-26, Paul also quoted from the Book of Hosea ("Osee") to those Gentile Roman believers he was speaking to.

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
KJV

Thing is, God gave that prophecy specifically to the 'seed' of the "house of Israel" through His prophet Hosea. That's about the ten northern tribes of Israel when they fell to Baal worship against our Heavenly Father, and He caused them to be removed from the land and scattered amongst the Gentiles. That is when He called those ten tribes, "Lo ami", which means 'not My people'. But in final, pointing to the last days, He said He would make a new covenant with them, and they would no longer call Him Baali, but Ishi. Then He would call them 'My people', or "children of the living God".

Well Apostle Paul applied that Hosea prophecy about the 'seed' of the house of Israel to believing Gentiles also! So what you think that means? It means Christ's Church of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles as one body in Christ Jesus.

It means God's promises and covenants STILL APPLY TO THE SEED OF ISRAEL that believe, and also to believing Gentiles grafted in with them.

Gentiles on Christ Jesus.

There are no Gentiles in Christ Jesus. There is no Gentile church of God. Gentile by definition is the uncircumcised heathen and nations of the earth that know not God. (1 Thess 4:5)

Once any uncircumcised unbeliever, no matter what seed of flesh, repent and believe God and are grafted into the Israel of God, they are no longer Gentiles, even as they are no longer uncircumcised.

They are now children of God. Children of Promise. Counted for the seed of promise. Jews by inward circumcision. Children of Israel of God. Israelites born of the God of Israel.

I am not a Gentile. I am a Christian.

Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. (1 Cor 12:2)

I, as well as all others born of flesh on earth, was a Gentile: uncircumcised and without God, but not any more through the faith of Jesus Christ: Who is that seed of promise. (Gal 3:16)

I may be a 'Gentile' to them that are 'Jews' in name only, but they are lying about me as well as themselves before God.

 

[robert derrick]

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. (Is 45:45)

All the seed of Israel in the Lord are justified with Him. All that are justified with the Lord are in Him and are seed of Israel.

All the seed of Israel are children of the God of Israel. All born of the God of Israel are the seed and children of the Israel of God.

There is no seed of Israel not born the children of the God of Israel, and are neither in Him nor justified with Him.

All Israel of God is now saved, because all that are of Israel are Israel. No more is there any of Israel that are not Israel, because all of Israel are born of the seed of the God of Israel: the Redeemer out of Sion has come, and the prophecy of His coming is fulfilled.

Unless,
The children of the God of Israel are not children of Israel.
The children of God of Israel born of His seed, are not the seed of Israel.
The holy olive tree of the God of Israel is not the Israel of God, or not all grafted into the olive tree of God are come in to the Israel of God.

 

[Davy]

Thing is, God gave that prophecy specifically to the 'seed' of the "house of Israel" through His prophet Hosea. That's about the ten northern tribes of Israel when they fell to Baal worship against our Heavenly Father,

Peter confirms this prophecy was for the Gentiles,a nd any people that were not His people. (1 Peter 2:10)

Which includes any people born after the flesh, that know not God, but repent and believe the Gospel.

Of course, what do you think Paul meant when he said Gentiles in Romans 9:24? Yet Paul didn't omit Israelites in that Hosea revealing, and neither has Christ left them out like anti-semitics like to do. Anti-Semitics prefer to just SCRAP the Romans 11:25-32 verses by Apostle Paul altogether.

The old seed of promise by flesh made themselves uncircumcision with God, and became Gentiles to God that know not God: they who abide still in unbelief worshipping in the false 'Jews religion' are among them that are not a people with God, which includes any northern kingdom by the flesh that may still be around.

There is no difference in the seed of flesh on earth. The only difference is they who are grafted in to the Israel of God by the King of Israel and the God of Israel.

Nah, the 'seed' of Israel never... became Gentiles; maybe lived like Gentiles, but they never became Gentiles literally. God shows us this in Amos 9:9 about His gathering in final; He knows where He scattered them, and knows where their children are today.

Apparently you have also yet to realize that in Christ's future Kingdom in the world to come, the ethnos (nations) will still exist, and those among them in Christ will be their kings and priests. This you should have realized just by Christ's promise to His 12 Apostles about their sitting on 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom in the world to come. It's about certain promises to certain ones. Or maybe YOU think you ought to sit upon one of those thrones that Jesus promised His Apostles??? Maybe you think Christ's Kingdom to come is going to be up on a cloud in the sky with no more earth? Men's doctrines can come up with all sorts of crazy ideas not written when they don't stay in God's Word. Those are the 'hirelings', the one's Lord Jesus warned us about in John 10. They preach for money, it's a business to them; they don't know God's Word, He did not send them (see Ezekiel 13).

Paul showed that God's Israel is not of the flesh.

There are two Israels mentioned in Scripture of the apostles: Israel after the flesh, and Israel of God.

Israel after the flesh is in name only, even as Paul's kinsmen after the flesh were in flesh only.

The Israel of God is now all seed of promise as Isaac was by faith and born after the Spirit. There is no seed of promise born after the flesh: that seed of Abraham by flesh is no as Ishmael by Hagar.

The old seed of promise by flesh has been wiped away from the earth as a dish turned upside down, along was the Old Covenant made specially to them: it is done away and vanished completely.

One earth today there is ISrael of God and Jews with God born of circumcision of the heart, and there are those born after the flesh calling themselves Israel and Jews in name only, and they are lying in the face of the Lord. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

You really don't know what Paul meant. You're only following a Pop doctrine from men loosely based on The Bible. The name 'ISRAEL' is... the Salvation Promise name in The Gospel. God gave it to Jacob as a Blessing when Jacob 'overcame'. That is why The Gospel of Jesus Christ was kept by the Patriarchs and prophets of Israel by God's Hand. It's why He chose them. And it is why when Jesus saw His Apostles, He commanded them to follow, and they got up and followed, showing He already chose them and already owned them (John 17). And then with Apostle Paul, Christ converted him directly because Paul also was His chosen vessel (Acts 9). SO HOW CAN ANYONE DENY THE ORDAINING OF THE SEED OF ISRAEL IN GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST!

And the even bigger part, is the lack of knowledge among many brethren, of how God scattered the ten tribes of Israel among the Gentiles, mainly in the West, and then sent The Gospel to them, and they along with believing Gentiles, would fulfill the ISRAELITE "multitude of nations" and "company of nations" prophecies given to Jacob and Ephraim!

So 2 Israels only? Yeah, but NOT HOW YOU THINK. The 2 Israels are... the single nation state of Israel in the holy land today made up of a portion of unbelieving Jews of the seed of Israel, and the rest of the Jews there as foreigner converts; these known as the "house of Judah" still. And then there's the much, much larger group of Israelites, of all 12 tribes, scattered in the Christian West, that have fulfilled the Israelite "multitude of nations" and "company of nations" prophecies in Genesis, along with Gentiles among them, making up the historical western Christian nations. That's Israel no.2, though most aren't even aware of it, while Christ's enemies well know it.

 

[Davy]

And YES there is a 'spiritual' Israel group represented by believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus.

And where does Holy writ say that? 'Spiritual israel'. 'Israel in spirit'. 'Israel born of the Spirit'.?

There is Israel after the flesh, which is in name only, and there is the Israel of God which is true with God and filled with all them born of God by faith of Abraham as was Isaac.

'Spiritual Israel' is a myth made up by people who cling to their own prophecies, which require a continued seed of promise born of flesh. But since all believing Jesus are now come in to the Israel of God: the holy olive tree of God, then they must translate that literal fact into 'spiritual' only.

A 'spiritual Israel' apart from the flesh is like a 'spiritual body of Christ' apart from the natural bodies of believers.

The physical seed of promise today are all them born of God by faith in natural bodies, counted for the seed of Abraham and of promise.

There is no more seed born of flesh in natural bodies, who are also of promise, nor of Abraham, as was Isaac. All such are uncircumcised unbelievers that know not God: Gentiles from God.

You know how dogs like to chase their tails sometimes? That's all you're doing above, chasing your tail.

In Romans 9:6-8, YOU WELL KNOW that Apostle Paul was speaking in the SPIRITUAL SENSE about Gentile believers on Christ Jesus.

Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
KJV


What "promise"???

The Promise by Faith which God first gave through whom???

Through Abraham! (Galatians 3; Romans 4)

And ALL those of Faith have become the "children of Abraham". Literally? God forbid, no. SPIRITUALLY!

THUS -- SPIRITUAL ISRAEL = believers on Christ Jesus of the nations!

Howbeit, that also includes the believing... SEED of Israel too! (they just won't go away like you'd prefer!)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'THE KINGDOM OF THE CHURCH'. THAT IS MAN'S CHURCHIANITY, PLAYING RELIGION. CHRIST'S FUTURE KINGDOM WILL BE KNOWN AS THE KINGDOM OF ISRAEL, or what Apostle Paul called it, the "commonwealth of Israel" (Ephesians 2).

 

[Davy]

Gentiles on Christ Jesus.

There are no Gentiles in Christ Jesus. There is no Gentile church of God. Gentile by definition is the uncircumcised heathen and nations of the earth that know not God. (1 Thess 4:5)

Once any uncircumcised unbeliever, no matter what seed of flesh, repent and believe God and are grafted into the Israel of God, they are no longer Gentiles, even as they are no longer uncircumcised.

They are now children of God. Children of Promise. Counted for the seed of promise. Jews by inward circumcision. Children of Israel of God. Israelites born of the God of Israel.

I am not a Gentile. I am a Christian.

Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. (1 Cor 12:2)

I, as well as all others born of flesh on earth, was a Gentile: uncircumcised and without God, but not any more through the faith of Jesus Christ: Who is that seed of promise. (Gal 3:16)

I may be a 'Gentile' to them that are 'Jews' in name only, but they are lying about me as well as themselves before God.

NOT EVEN WORTH RESPONDING TO THIS DECEIVED GENTILE.

 

[robert derrick]

Of course, what do you think Paul meant when he said Gentiles in Romans 9:24? Yet Paul didn't omit Israelites in that Hosea revealing, and neither has Christ left them out like anti-semitics like to do. Anti-Semitics prefer to just SCRAP the Romans 11:25-32 verses by Apostle Paul altogether.




Nah, the 'seed' of Israel never... became Gentiles; maybe lived like Gentiles, but they never became Gentiles literally. God shows us this in Amos 9:9 about His gathering in final; He knows where He scattered them, and knows where their children are today.

Apparently you have also yet to realize that in Christ's future Kingdom in the world to come, the ethnos (nations) will still exist, and those among them in Christ will be their kings and priests. This you should have realized just by Christ's promise to His 12 Apostles about their sitting on 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom in the world to come. It's about certain promises to certain ones. Or maybe YOU think you ought to sit upon one of those thrones that Jesus promised His Apostles??? Maybe you think Christ's Kingdom to come is going to be up on a cloud in the sky with no more earth? Men's doctrines can come up with all sorts of crazy ideas not written when they don't stay in God's Word. Those are the 'hirelings', the one's Lord Jesus warned us about in John 10. They preach for money, it's a business to them; they don't know God's Word, He did not send them (see Ezekiel 13).



You really don't know what Paul meant. You're only following a Pop doctrine from men loosely based on The Bible. The name 'ISRAEL' is... the Salvation Promise name in The Gospel. God gave it to Jacob as a Blessing when Jacob 'overcame'. That is why The Gospel of Jesus Christ was kept by the Patriarchs and prophets of Israel by God's Hand. It's why He chose them. And it is why when Jesus saw His Apostles, He commanded them to follow, and they got up and followed, showing He already chose them and already owned them (John 17). And then with Apostle Paul, Christ converted him directly because Paul also was His chosen vessel (Acts 9). SO HOW CAN ANYONE DENY THE ORDAINING OF THE SEED OF ISRAEL IN GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST!

And the even bigger part, is the lack of knowledge among many brethren, of how God scattered the ten tribes of Israel among the Gentiles, mainly in the West, and then sent The Gospel to them, and they along with believing Gentiles, would fulfill the ISRAELITE "multitude of nations" and "company of nations" prophecies given to Jacob and Ephraim!

So 2 Israels only? Yeah, but NOT HOW YOU THINK. The 2 Israels are... the single nation state of Israel in the holy land today made up of a portion of unbelieving Jews of the seed of Israel, and the rest of the Jews there as foreigner converts; these known as the "house of Judah" still. And then there's the much, much larger group of Israelites, of all 12 tribes, scattered in the Christian West, that have fulfilled the Israelite "multitude of nations" and "company of nations" prophecies in Genesis, along with Gentiles among them, making up the historical western Christian nations. That's Israel no.2, though most aren't even aware of it, while Christ's enemies well know it.

More mantra from mantraman:

Is he a Jew that is one outwardly? Is outward circumcision in the flesh, circumcision?

Is there one inwardly circumcised and is not a Jew?

Are there any that say they are Jews, but are not and are liars?

Is Israel after the flesh, Israel of God? Are the children of flesh, the children of promise of God?

Are the brethren of the King of Israel not of Israel? Are the children of the God of Israel not children of Israel?

Are the children of Abraham counted for the seed, not the seed of promise?

Is the holy olive tree the Israel of God? What are the Gentiles coming in to?

 

[robert derrick]

NOT EVEN WORTH RESPONDING TO THIS DECEIVED GENTILE.

I know that being forced to ditch our cherished prophecies is difficult. I probably spent as much time diving into those prophecies as you. But when Scripture plainly confronts us with a new mind on the matter, we either bow to Scripture and have a new mind, or we start digging a ditch of our own making to keep a prophecy of our own mind.

I bow to Scripture, you idolize your own mind of prophecy.

I see all Scripture, especially prophecy of Scripture, through the clear glass of Jesus' words by His apostles. You see all Scripture, especially prophecy of Scripture, through a dark vail of flesh.

They who call themselves Jews of God, and are liars, still read Moses of old with Moses' vail upon their hearts, and abide still in unbelief of Jesus. You, who think yourself to be a prophet of prophecy, and are blind, still read prophecies of old with the vail of a seed after the flesh over your mind, and abide still in unbelief of Jesus' words by His apostles:

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

They who call themselves Jews and are lying, are now they born of Abraham and Hagar after the flesh. The old seed after the flesh of Abraham and Sarah no longer exist with God. With false prophets? Yes. Not with God.

 

[marks]

that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Part of the reason they are blind. Not they are blind in part. All of Israel of God are saved believers, none of the children of Israel are blind.

The correct meaning of the passage is that blindness has happened to part of Israel. Not part of the reason, part of Israel.

Much love!