Headship, Submission and Women in Ministry

[OzSpen]

Oz

I’m sorry I didn’t make myself clear. What I meant was is not the English translation or any foreign translation in the reader’s native tongue sufficient enough to understand scriptures without the knowledge of Hebrew or Greek?

Most definitely I commend the translators for their work.

To God Be The Glory

So does that mean you don't want to commend current Hebrew and Greek OT and NT teachers and translators?

 

[OzSpen]

You seek not after God but your own wisdom, How can you seek teh things to be true if God hasnt told you what they are. Is ok your not alone. I wonder how long the ignore list is...

That's a false accusation about me that I do not seek after God. Because my conclusions are different from yours does not mean I don't seek after God. I do seek after Him.

If you continue with this kind of uninformed response, you'll join my Ignore list as well.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

You need God, nothing else will do.

This is another false statement. I worship God and Him alone. However, I need many other things:

• I needed sight to be able to help my wife shop for the groceries this morning;
• I need to be literate in English to be able to read your trite response to me;
• I need to pass the Queensland driver's test to be able to drive my motor vehicle;
• I need the physical strength to be able to trim the shrubs around my property this afternoon;
• Etc.

It seems that there are many reasons why people don't reply to you and you are giving them more with the kind of response you gave to me. Please learn to think about what you write and be coherent.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

What I meant was is not the English translation or any foreign translation in the reader’s native tongue sufficient enough to understand scriptures without the knowledge of Hebrew or Greek?
Most definitely I commend the translators for their work.

Yes it is Jun2u, if that translation is excepted as God's word. Sadly, some who have agendas will distort the translation and eisegeted a point that is NOT there. Linguistic integrity is always important, and most translation committees put a high priority on that. The problem usually arises in forums such as this, when people try to push their own fallacious agendas. Then it becomes very important to be able to go to the original language to properly contextualize what was translated.

 

[StanJ]

That's a false accusation about me that I do not seek after God. Because my conclusions are different from yours does not mean I don't seek after God. I do seek after Him.

If you continue with this kind of uninformed response, you'll join my Ignore list as well.

Oz

Indeed Oz, but that's who he is. A man that listens to voices in his head rather than the written word of God that you and I both know should/would never contradict his written word. Hence why so many have him on ignore.

 

[OzSpen]

He's right, though, Oz.
He's been making his little observations all through the thread.
It wasn't until I thanked him for his support that you noticed him.

And the truth is, I don't usually pay him much attention, either. Mj is...well, he's just Mj, that's all.

That's not true, The Barrd. I've noticed him through the thread but he tends to not make coherent, sensible comments that deserve my response. Comments such as 'I doubt Jesus ever used words like exegis (sic)' (#337) indicate the extent of his understanding.

I won't be paying any more attention either with that kind of ignorant statement.

Let me ask you, in keeping with the title of this thread: When it comes to headship, submission and women in ministry, do you practise exegesis of the text? Or will you put on your poetic apron to arrive at an interpretation?

See: 'What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?' (GotQuestions?) These are questions for everyday folks who read the Bible.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

When I look at the local newspaper, I see stories. When I watch the news on television, I see stories. There is poetry even in the weather report.
It's all around us, Oz...and it is beautiful...

Perhaps I am like an alcoholic, then...addicted to the beauty of God's Creation....

Do you know the difference between narrative and poetry?

What would a story be like if it were not for the content of the story? Who decides the nature of the story? Is it the author or do I, the reader, decide what the content means?

 

[mjrhealth]

It seems that there are many reasons why people don't reply to you and you are giving them more with the kind of response you gave to me. Please learn to think about what you write and be coherent.

You know tha tbit about "study to finds youslf aproved" study it an see what it actually says.

Agendas, the bible is teh word of God, oh so know we dont need God. Devil one, God 0.

 

[OzSpen]

He's not right, but those of us who do have him on ignore, actually ignore him.

Stan,

I thought I'd give him some kind of response to try to awaken the ignorance, but it didn't work. Now it's back to the Ignore selection - sadly. I dislike doing this to people's responses, but sometimes it's necessary.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

I thought I'd give him some kind of response to try to awaken the ignorance, but it didn't work. Now it's back to the Ignore selection - sadly. I dislike doing this to people's responses, but sometimes it's necessary.

Oz

Especially when they are as in cohesive and incoherent as his are. At his age I don't think that is going to change.

 

[OzSpen]

Especially when they are as in cohesive and incoherent as his are. At his age I don't think that is going to change.

There's hope for some of us in our 60s mate! :mellow:

Why not older? I have friends in their 70s and 80s who would make excellent members of this CyB.

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh so when one cannot respond one just demeans people, I suppose that is a bit like saul, the pharisee murdering christans before He met Jesus. Than he changed. One should follow his example.

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

No loss to me.

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,


Not a word about worship???

What does it mean to 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy'? Do you know the meaning of 'holy'?

Sacred, set aside, sanctified...
It doesn't necessarily mean that the Sabbath must be a day of worship. It is a day that God set aside...that He sanctifed, and declared a day of rest.

 

[Barrd]

Do you know the difference between narrative and poetry?

What would a story be like if it were not for the content of the story? Who decides the nature of the story? Is it the author or do I, the reader, decide what the content means?

Narrative poetry.....uh, "The Walrus and the Carpenter" by Lewis Carrol....
Lyric poetry....my favorite "Ode To Joy" by Friedrich Schiller

The author writes her vision...if she's done her job well, she has turned on her reader's mind...and he will find his own vision.

 

[Barrd]

Anything to make you happy, my kuddly koala friend. :wub:

Every writer of every inspired scripture was writing "under the auspices of God." In other words, they were writing under His guidance, at His direction, under His control. But that doesn't mean that God dictated to them what they should write. When you read the four gospels, for instance, each man is telling essentially the same story...but from a different pov.
I don't know any better way to explain it than that.


I think that's what I just said. :unsure:


There are the Ten Commandments, which were written on tablets of stone (to show their permanence), by the finger of God, Himself.

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Then there is the rest of the Law, written in a scroll by the hand of Moses.

2Ch 35:12 And they removed the burnt offerings, that they might give according to the divisions of the families of the people, to offer unto the LORD, as it is written in the book of Moses. And so did they with the oxen.


The Law of Moses is that which was "done away". The Ten Commandments cannot be "done away".
No Christian would ever say that, since Jesus took our sins to the cross, we may now
have other Gods before God
make or worship idols
use God's name as a curse
disrespect parents
murder
commit adultery
steal
spread vicious lies about anyone
harbor a desire for what belongs to someone else

You may have noticed that I left out the fourth commandment...for some reason, that one seems to be subject to debate. I've never figured out what it is that people have against a day off...
However, it is a commandment...and we should keep God's Sabbath.

At least, that is what The Barrd thinks about it...



I'm simply going by what is written in the Bible.

Exo 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.


I have been curious for some time as to what the first century Christians were reading, besides the Torah.


Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties? Now, that sounds interesting....

You know, I'm noticing that you don't answer my posts, Oz.
Now, why is that?

 

[Wormwood]

Oz,

Glad to see you joined the discussion. Wow, I didnt log in over the weekend and it looks like people were posting every 5 minutes! As you can see, the issue I was having was not with looking at the context of difficult passages with Barrd to help explain their validity. I tried discussing context, language and a host of other issues in both OT and NT passages, but it seems to me her determination use the silence of Scripture as a launching point for all kinds of wild speculation and context manipulation...as well as a blatant disregard for much of the OT made the conversation impossible.

Also, I have Gleason Archer's book you referenced. His introductory chapters on the inerrancy of Scripture are among the best I have ever read. Excellent book.

 

[Jun2u]

Yes it is Jun2u, if that translation is excepted as God's word. Sadly, some who have agendas will distort the translation and eisegeted a point that is NOT there. Linguistic integrity is always important, and most translation committees put a high priority on that. The problem usually arises in forums such as this, when people try to push their own fallacious agendas. Then it becomes very important to be able to go to the original language to properly contextualize what was translated.

The problem is who will judge a translation to be the word of God as accepted, except God? If you wrote a book and left a chapter on the kitchen table, another in the bedroom, and another chapter in the living room, etc., will you allow someone else to put the chapters together, or will you do it yourself? Don’t you think God will take care of His own word and put it together Himself? I believe He allowed and guided sinful man to put together a Holy Book which became the Bible.

I believe all Bible translations are trustworthy! My preference is KJV because the translators used the Received Text which is a far superior translation. Except for “Thee and “Thou” and few other words like “concupiscence”, and along with the warning to the reader that words in italicize are not in the original, and with Strong’s and Young’s concordances as word study helps, the KJV is the best translation as it also withstood the test of time.

Whether in forums or commentaries there are those who will push their own fallacious agendas, I agree.

To God Be The Glory

 

[OzSpen]

Sacred, set aside, sanctified...
It doesn't necessarily mean that the Sabbath must be a day of worship. It is a day that God set aside...that He sanctifed, and declared a day of rest.

However, when did NT Christians meet for public worship?

See, 'How to honor the Sabbaths'.

See also, 21 reasons why the first day of the week, Sunday is important to Christians.

 

[StanJ]

There's hope for some of us in our 60s mate! :mellow:

Why not older? I have friends in their 70s and 80s who would make excellent members of this CyB.

I agree Oz but sadly this member is NOT one of them.

 

[StanJ]

Sacred, set aside, sanctified...
It doesn't necessarily mean that the Sabbath must be a day of worship. It is a day that God set aside...that He sanctifed, and declared a day of rest.

Yes and that meant going to temple and doing NO work at all, which had a very long list of qualifiers. The point Oz clearly made was the Sabath being on a Saturday, and if you know this, then why equivocate?