Hebrews 10:26-31

[mjrhealth]

My discernment tells me that those who don't hear me have the spirit of error...1 John 4:6.

Only because the spirit you have is the one and the same, you know it because you preach it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Only because the spirit you have is the one and the same, you know it because you preach it.

My spirit is one with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:17).

When people do not hear what I preach, I know that they have the spirit of error (1 John 4:6).

 

[Tong2020]

What law do you say is written in the heart and on the mind of New Covenant believers?

Because I would say that it is the law of faith, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that has set me free from the law of sin and death.

Sin is defined in this law as walking after the flesh rather than after the Spirit.

If you look carefully at Galatians 5:19-21, you will see that walking according to the flesh amounts to doing things that are in violation of the OT law.

And if you look further into Galatians 5:22-23, I believe that you will see that there is no law that goes against walking according to the Spirit; that is, if you walk in the Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit, you will not be doing anything in violation of the law.

I think you found it.

The new covenant law is the law of the Spirit. And it is in the minds and hearts of covenant people ~ the Spirt. In contrast, the old covenant law is not, but was in stone ~ the law.

Tong
R1516

 

[justbyfaith]

I think you found it.

The new covenant law is the law of the Spirit. And it is in the minds and hearts of covenant people ~ the Spirt. In contrast, the old covenant law is not, but was in stone ~ the law.

Tong
R1516

It is the same law; it is merely fulfilled in our lives differently than it was in the Old Testament.

 

[Tong2020]

Like I say, you and I can think whatever we want about whether or not a true believer can stop believing, but the important thing that actually matters is that you not find yourself in the place of unbelief, and how to recognize if you are. And if you do find yourself in the position of being in unbelief you need to be fully aware that if you remain in that unbelief you will not be saved when Jesus comes back. That's what matters.

Settling the question of whether or not that can actually happen to you is curious but meaningless fluff. It does not change the fact that you have to have been a believer in this life to the very end in order to enter the kingdom when Jesus comes back. I see a lot of people thinking that just adopting the real teaching about OSAS is what makes them ready to meet Jesus. They derive assurance that they are really saved from that instead of what the Bible says you are to draw your assurance of salvation from.

You already said that and always say that when it is not the issue, and altogether get out from the issue. Just like here, nothing said really about what’s in my post. Well,...

And I already explained my take on that. And I will repeat it here but not anymore if you bring it up again. It may not be all that important to you, but that does not follow that it should not also be to all. Like for me, all truth is important to me. And getting to know the truth is important to me. And believing the truth is important to me. And standing up for the truth is important to me. For the truth sets us free in all things. All truth matters to me and meaningful. It seems we differ regarding that.

I agree that we can't judge with absolute certainty, but the Bible does give us lots of guidance on how to know if you should consider another person a true believer or not.

That’s good. So we agree that we can’t know with absolute certainty the heart of man. So, to say that the Galatians and Corinthians were genuine believers is presumptuous, unless scriptures says they are.

You said that the Bible give us lots of guidance on how to know when to consider a person as a true believer. Is falling away one of them? Don’t think so.

Tong
R1517

 

[Tong2020]

In matters of importance, what does it benefit you to know a truth that can not save you if you neglect the truth that can?

It seems that you find no benefit in that. I understand now what it is that matters to you and what does not, what is important to you and what is not.

Anyway, in answer, it gives me knowledge of the truth, peace, joy, feeds my soul and let it grow in truth, to mention a few.

It don’t neglect the truth that saves me. You know who He is ~ Jesus Christ.

And again, you effectively dodge what I posted.

Tong
R1518

 

[justbyfaith]

You already said that and always say that when it is not the issue,

I would say on @Ferris Bueller's behalf that it is indeed a major part of the issue.

 

[Tong2020]

Because that which is born of God does not sin.

Amen!

And that’s profound! I am quite sure that is a mystery to many.

Tong
R1519

 

[Tong2020]

Those in Christ cannot sin, end of story, the flesh is of no concern to Christ,....

Amen!

That’s profound. It seems that is a mystery to many.

Tong
R1520

 

[Ferris Bueller]

nothing said really about what’s in my post. Well,...

And again, you effectively dodge what I posted.

What am I not addressing to your satisfaction?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That’s profound. It seems that is a mystery to many.

Gnosticism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, to say that the Galatians and Corinthians were genuine believers is presumptuous, unless scriptures says they are.

I showed you where it does say.

 

[Tong2020]

This is a description of the man trying to serve God in the power of the flesh. Paul asks, "Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Jesus, and the indwelling Holy Spirit, of course. If you keep reading into chapter 8 he explains how the saved person is controlled by the Spirit, not by the flesh as the person in chapter 7 is and as a result can't do the good he wants to do.

...the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so (the Romans 7 person). 8Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. Romans 8:7-8

Don't take some kind of comfort out of being a Romans chapter 7 believer. That's the description of a person without the Spirit and who is controlled by the flesh. If you or I identify with the Romans 7 believer rather than the Romans 8 believer we have to consider if we are really saved or not. You may be, but you have to know for sure, so that if you really aren't saved you can fix that before you die.

Assurance of salvation comes from being like him in this life, not just in your spirit as Gnosticism teaches. Ultimately, saved, righteous people (made righteous through Christ) are righteous in what they actually do. Unrighteous people aren't. That's how you can tell who really is saved and who is not. John said that, not me.

<<<This is a description of the man trying to serve God in the power of the flesh.>>>

Read again and meditate on this part of Romans 7.

Romans 7:17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Romans 7: 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

<<<That's the description of a person without the Spirit and who is controlled by the flesh. >>>

Read Romans 7:7-25. It’s all I and me ~ Paul. Does that sound he is talking about another and not about himself? And Paul, is he a person with the Holy Spirit or not? That, we can be sure He is a. He describes no less than himself, one who has the Spirit in his mind and heart.

Tong
R1521

 

[mjrhealth]

Gnosticism.

Nothing to do with isms its the truth, so few really believe in the resurrected Jesus , the"finished" works of the cross, seems Gods work with Christ isnt finished and its up to men to do it themselves, Apparently according to christianity, they did a lousy job. You may as well join the SDAS and pretend to keep the law if it will be of any help to your flesh

 

[Tong2020]

Gnosticism.

Far off sir.

Tong
R1522

 

[Tong2020]

I showed you where it does say.

I showed you why what you showed me does not (post#533). And you had, in response, did not even attempt to refute it (post#549).

Tong
R1523

 

[justbyfaith]

<<<This is a description of the man trying to serve God in the power of the flesh.>>>

Read again and meditate on this part of Romans 7.

Romans 7:17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Romans 7: 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

<<<That's the description of a person without the Spirit and who is controlled by the flesh. >>>

Read Romans 7:7-25. It’s all I and me ~ Paul. Does that sound he is talking about another and not about himself? And Paul, is he a person with the Holy Spirit or not? That, we can be sure He is a. He describes no less than himself, one who has the Spirit in his mind and heart.

Tong
R1521

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION to reach the carnally-minded (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

He is identifying himself as carnal in order to define carnality in order to reach the carnally-minded person.

That he himself is not carnal as he writes the passage should be evident by the fact that he is penning holy scripture.

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Nothing to do with isms its the truth,

It aligns with gnosticism which was a false doctrine that originated in the first century and almost entirely destroyed the early church. Very dangerous. And nothing to do with the truth. A lie from the pit, in fact; if it is taken in the way that I think some are taking it.

 

[Tong2020]

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION to reach the carnally-minded (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

He is identifying himself as carnal in order to define carnality in order to reach the carnally-minded person.

That he himself is not carnal as he writes the passage should be evident by the fact that he is penning holy scripture.

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Looks like you did not even care to read Romans 7:17 and 20, much less meditate on them. It would do you good than harm sir.

Then, if you had done that, consider asking “ is Paul then yet in his sinful flesh” and ask yourself, “am I yet with my sinful flesh”?

Also, meditate on the truth about the flesh, that there is nothing good in it, that sin dwells in it ~ in the flesh.

If you had done that, then go back and consider what you posted here.

Tong
R1524

 

[mjrhealth]

It aligns with gnosticism which was a false doctrine that originated in the first century and almost entirely destroyed the early church. Very dangerous. And nothing to do with the truth. A lie from the pit, in fact; if it is taken in the way that I think some are taking it.

Everything to do with the truth just because you dont like it or it disagrees with your wisdom doesnt make it not true

 

[justbyfaith]

Then, if you had done that, consider asking “ is Paul then yet in his sinful flesh” and ask yourself, “am I yet with my sinful flesh”?

See Romans 8:9...

Rom 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Everything to do with the truth just because you dont like it or it disagrees with your wisdom doesn't make it not true

Thank you for complimenting me as having wisdom.

It should be clear, common sense, that wisdom is a desirable and that foolishness is not a desirable.

What makes gnosticism untrue is that it has historically been an enemy of faithful, sound, Christian doctrine.