Hebrews 10:26-31

[Behold]

Then I'm in good company. If I am fallen from grace for saying that you are saved if we hold onto the gospel then so is Paul.

1 Corinthians 15:2
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you.​

To hold firmly is the way the NT translators translated "to believe"..

Notice the context, ferris.

If you hold firmly to the word i "PREACHED'" to you...

Now, who hear's preaching?, and what is the message?
Paul says, "Christ sent me not to water baptize but to PREACH the CROSS"..
So, Paul does not preach to the Born again.
He "Preaches" to those who have not yet believed, so, to hear his Preaching....is, like this, Ferris...."some seed fell on stoney ground, some fell on good".
See that?
So, those that BELIEVE, are those who have been born again, = "hold firmly"..

See, you are again trying to teach that by holding onto faith, is YOUR salvation.
But that is you doing it, and that is not God doing it for you as "the Gift of Salvation".

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul says, "Christ sent me not to water baptize but to PREACH the CROSS"..

Of course, Paul, in context, had only baptized about three people in Corinth to prove his point that he was not sent to baptize (Stephanas, Crispus, and Gaius).

Nevertheless, if you look at Acts of the Apostles 18:8, there were many who were baptized in Corinth at the time that Paul preached to them.

This indicates to me that Paul was utilizing the same tactic as did Jesus in John 4:2...he did not do the baptizing but let his disciples do the baptizing.

Therefore, Paul was not saying that baptism wasn't a necessary or good thing.

He was just saying that his primary calling was not to do the baptizing, but to preach the gospel.

Just like I cannot baptize people while preaching here on the internet; so my calling is not to baptize but to preach the gospel.

Which is not to say that I will say nothing about the necessity of baptism for salvation in my preaching.

Paul also did not say nothing about the necessity of baptism in his preaching (see Romans 6:1-4, Colossians 2:11-12, Galatians 3:27)

 

[justbyfaith]

1Co 15:1, Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3, For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What is there to judge when you already know that he sinned against you? For me, it is not about judging a person, but about correcting a sinning brother and help him come to repentance.

Read the passage. This is about after they refuse to acknowledge their sin against you and repent. It is then that you are to consider them an unbeliever and treat them accordingly.

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matthew 18:17​

 

[Tong2020]

Read the passage. This is about after they refuse to acknowledge their sin against you and repent. It is then that you are to consider them an unbeliever and treat them accordingly.

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matthew 18:17​

Read the passage.

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

You see? It’s not about judging a brother whether he is saved or not, it’s about what ought to do if your brother in Christ sins against you and what to do if he refuses to hear you and repent and what the church ought to do if he refuses to hear even the church.

Tong
R1778

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Read the passage.

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

You see? It’s not about judging a brother whether he is saved or not, it’s about what ought to do if your brother in Christ sins against you and what to do if he refuses to hear you and repent and what the church ought to do if he refuses to hear even the church.

Tong
R1778

This person is continuing in unrepentant sin. This is what the Bible says about that....

6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:6-10​

If he wants to come to his senses and prove himself to be a believer, that's up to him. Until then we go with what the Bible says and we judge him to be an unbeliever as evidenced by his unrepentant behavior.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yep, when Jesus said that all of those that “Trust in Him ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”....
well——hang me from the highest tree —— I just so happen to Believe Him.....others don’t .

Of course all BELIEVING people will never come under condemnation. Only UNBELIEVING people are condemned. I've never heard anyone say otherwise.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And I have showed you in my post that salvation is not the context there.

Tong
R1753

It has everything to do with salvation.....

whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 1 John 4:16-17​

When you live like Jesus in this world, loving others as He loves, you can have confidence that you are saved and ready for the day of judgment that is coming.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, those that BELIEVE, are those who have been born again, = "hold firmly"..

See, you are again trying to teach that by holding onto faith, is YOUR salvation.
But that is you doing it, and that is not God doing it for you as "the Gift of Salvation".

Since you say God is doing all the holding and we do none, the person who falls away is unsaved, right? You've been saying he remains saved. If I go with what you're saying now, it's impossible to be in unbelief once you are saved. Can you clear up your contradictory assertions?

 

[Tong2020]

This person is continuing in unrepentant sin. This is what the Bible says about that....

6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:6-10​

If he wants to come to his senses and prove himself to be a believer, that's up to him. Until then we go with what the Bible says and we judge him to be an unbeliever as evidenced by his unrepentant behavior.

Well not me. As the passage says, so I’ll do.

’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Tong
R1780

 

[Tong2020]

It has everything to do with salvation.....

whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 1 John 4:16-17​

When you live like Jesus in this world, loving others as He loves, you can have confidence that you are saved and ready for the day of judgment that is coming.

If you believe you will still be judged whether you are saved or not, then you can’t say you have already been saved.

Tong
R1781

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well not me. As the passage says, so I’ll do.

’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Tong
R1780

10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God... 1 John 3:10

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you believe you will still be judged whether you are saved or not, then you can’t say you have already been saved.

Tong
R1781

If you are saved today you will be saved on the day of judgment "if you hold firmly to the word" 1 Corinthians 15:2.

You can read that through the lens of either Calvinism or Arminianism. Either way, as long as you believe today and die in that same belief you will be saved from the lake of fire at the judgment. Wondering if OSAS is true or not does not change that truth.

And you can tell for sure if you're believing by if you have the changed life of a new creation in Christ. Just as surely as you can tell you're not believing by if you don't have that changed life.

 

[Tong2020]

10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God... 1 John 3:10

I’ll let him be to me LIKE a heathen and a tax collector. That’s what Jesus said. Is that not enough for you that you seem to want me to do more than that?

Tong
R1782

 

[Tong2020]

If you are saved today you will be saved on the day of judgment "if you hold firmly to the word" 1 Corinthians 15:2.

You can read that through the lens of either Calvinism or Arminianism. Either way, as long as you believe today and die in that same belief you will be saved from the lake of fire at the judgment. Wondering if OSAS is true or not does not change that truth.

And you can tell for sure if you're believing by if you have the changed life of a new creation in Christ. Just as surely as you can tell you're not believing by if you don't have that changed life.

As I said, if you believe you will still be judged whether you are saved or not, then you can’t say you have already been saved.

There is no longer a judgment for the saved, whether he goes to heaven or hell.

Tong
R1783

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I said, if you believe you will still be judged whether you are saved or not, then you can’t say you have already been saved.

You're letting a predetermined theological bias make you see it this way. But in reality it's simple and rational and reasonable to view it from the standpoint that a true believer can be truly saved, now, in this moment, but be able to stop believing. Both that view and yours are legit in that they both support the essential and important truth that you must die trusting and believing in Christ to be saved at his coming.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I’ll let him be to me LIKE a heathen and a tax collector. That’s what Jesus said. Is that not enough for you that you seem to want me to do more than that?

Tong
R1782

What's the difference? You consider them an unbeliever. Whether they really are or not doesn't change the fact that you are to consider him an unbeliever.

 

[Tong2020]

You're letting a predetermined theological bias make you see it this way. But in reality it's simple and rational and reasonable to view it from the standpoint that a true believer can be truly saved, now, in this moment, but be able to stop believing. Both that view and yours are legit in that they both support the essential and important truth that you must die trusting and believing in Christ to be saved at his coming.

If you still believe that it is possible for you to reject Christ at anytime in your life from today, though presently you don’t like that to happen, then by all means, do everything you can to make that impossible.

As for me, I rest through faith in God, in Christ, that I have been saved, and faith removed the possibility of me rejecting my Lord Jesus Christ. All I do now is praise and worship Him and by all means, do all things to the glory of God, for as long as He gives me time to do that in this life. That is not coming from a theological bias.

Tong
R1784

 

[Tong2020]

What's the difference? You consider them an unbeliever. Whether they really are or not doesn't change the fact that you are to consider him an unbeliever.

How’d you know? Because I don’t consider him an unbeliever. If you do, that’s you, not me.

Tong
R1785

 

[justbyfaith]

I’ll let him be to me LIKE a heathen and a tax collector. That’s what Jesus said. Is that not enough for you that you seem to want me to do more than that?

Tong
R1782

That means treating them like they are an unbeliever.