No sir. For it is only the person to whom the sinning brother sinned against and not admit his fault, is the one to treat him like a heathen and a tax collector, not the other brethren. Read the passage again please, if you must.
Tong
R1787
Hebrews 10:26-31
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Tong
R1787
Behold
Well-Known Member
Im saying that a real born again Christian gives God credit for saving them with the Blood of Jesus and keeping them saved with the BLOOD of Jesus, while a heretical fakir takes the credit and tries to teach this as "self effort" "self saving" false truth.
Im saying that when you oppose Philippians 1:6 with self righteousness you are become an enemy of the Cross.
That's what im saying.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Humbly accepting the fact that you may one day not want to rely on the Lord does not equate to not being saved now. I am truly saved right now, and I don't expect to ever want to depart from the Lord in unbelief, but life has taught me that can change. What happens is believers start out with the Lord in a honeymoon kind of relationship and they are sure they will always be in love with God, but, like in a marriage, the years go by and you realize commitment to the Lord isn't as emotionally packed as it was in the beginning and requires more of a practical and level-headed attitude. Christians just have to get to that point for them to understand what I'm saying. I want to warn believers about that before they get there so they can understand what's going on and seek to continue in the faith and be saved when Jesus comes back.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You consider them an unbeliever in their relationship to you and the church. John goes so far as to say you can literally judge them to be an unbeliever. The burden is on them to demonstrate that they are a genuine brother or sister. Your responsibility is to distance yourself from them. We can see what not doing that for the last 40 years has done to the church. Now us genuine Christians have to explain how we are not a part of this misguided Christian nationalism here in the United States. When the feds coming gunning for them (and they will) we'll get persecuted along with them. All thanks to the social gospel taking over the church. There's a name for that movement but it escapes me at the moment. 'Seeker friendly', that's it.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Believing in God for forgiveness of sin is not a self righteous work of merit. Paul made this very clear.
Of course, the blood of Jesus produces a practical holiness in the one who has been saved by it.
It sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses from all sin (1 John 1:7).
It makes a man into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)); the old is gone; all things have become new!
The old is the sinful lifestyle that we used to live before we were redeemed.
The new is the pure and holy life that we will be living because we have been regenerated and renewed on the inside by the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5).
No sir. 1 Corinthians 5 is indeed speaking of the same doctrine.
And I make no such implication of sort.
<<<....but life has taught me that can change. >>>
As I said, if that’s your mind, then you just got to do what you think you got to do.
<<<What happens is believers start out with the Lord in a honeymoon kind of relationship and they are sure they will always be in love with God, but, like in a marriage, the years go by and you realize commitment to the Lord isn't as emotionally packed as it was in the beginning and requires more of a practical and level-headed attitude.>>>
As for me, I look at it in the rebirth, as being born in the Spirit. The believer starts out as a babe, still weak in faith, bit eventually grows in the Spirit as he feeds on meat and grows to maturity, strong in faith.
Tong
R1797
<<<You consider them an unbeliever in their relationship to you and the church. >>>
How many times do I have to tell you, that I don’t consider them to be an unbeliever? Do you want to speak or think for me? Or do you want me to be you?
<<<Your responsibility is to distance yourself from them.>>>
That’s right. You got it.
Tong
R1798
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Why in God's name would you not consider a person who lives like a pagan to be a pagan????????
Behold
Well-Known Member
Stopping "believing" has no effect on being born again.
Stop trusting in believing to keep you saved, Ferris.
Thats Legalism, and SELF Righteousness.
Instead trust in CHRIST, and God who said....."I who began salvation in you will myself be faithful to complete it".
See that?
That's God saying He will be "faithful" to complete what He finished on the Cross, as every believer's eternal =redemption.
Behold
Well-Known Member
If you believed God's Blood kept you saved, you would not be running around this forum every day showing us that you are trying to do stuff to keep yourself saved.
You are the one found teaching that you are holding on to this and enduring to the end of that, to try to keep yourself saved.
And...Thats is not how God's Grace is offered
You dont work for, or KEEP..... a BIRTH.
See, going to heaven is only based on being BORN AGAIN.
Its not based on your peculiar idea that you are working to keep something so that you can try to keep yourself saved.
@Behold, you are not only self-deceived in the fact that you deny indwelling sin; but you are self-deceived in this doctrine also.
If someone falls away from faith, they do not continue to have salvation. That is heresy.
It should be clear in Ephesians 2:8-9 and in Romans 5:1-2 that we are saved by grace through faith and that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.
Therefore, we are saved by grace; and we have access to grace by faith.
Take away faith, and there is no more access to grace.
Since salvation is by grace, if there is no grace, there is no salvation.
And since, if there is no faith, there is no grace, I conclude that if there is no more faith there is also no more salvation.
A very simple deduction, really.
The brother sinned against me. I told him his sin, he refused to admit it. I got two witnesses, still he don’t admit it. I brought the matter to the church but still the same. And as he don’t want to admit his sin, Jesus said that I let him be LIKE a heathen and a tax collector to me. And I’ll obey what Jesus said. Why do you insist that I consider him to be a pagan when Jesus only said to treat him like a pagan? What’s with you? Do you want me now to follow you instead of Jesus? Please stop this nonsense.
Tong
R1800
Obviously, a man who is sealed by the Holy Spirit has an everlasting faith.
But there is a faith that is nominal, lukewarm, or shallow, that will fall away when temptation or persecution or tribulation comes (Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13).
Such people do not continue to have salvation when they fall away.
To teach otherwise is heresy.
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