Hell Center of the Earth?

[VictoryinJesus]

@amadeus is a believer, a Christian, with faith in JESUS. (regardless how much or how little strength).

To compare him to those UNbelievers who tried to USURP "Jesus Who Paul Preaches", with NO FAITH IN JESUS,

seems entirely inappropriate to me.

The weakest, smallest, tiniest CHRISTIAN (True Christian), has more authority and more LIFE IN JESUS,

than those UNbelievers by far.

that was not the intent. Not at all. So obviously I said it completely wrong. I was speaking of myself which was why I mentioned the weakness and sometimes feeling overcome. Thinking your strong but then it doesn’t appear that way. Only meant that is why I was asking Amadeus so many questions concerning it. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean you Amadeus.

 

[Heart2Soul]

that was not the intent. Not at all. So obviously I said it completely wrong. I was speaking of myself which was why I mentioned the weakness and sometimes feeling overcome. Thinking your strong but then it doesn’t appear that way. Only meant that is why I was asking Amadeus so many questions concerning it. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean you Amadeus.

I read your post and I saw that you were talking about yourself....pay no mind to him...he is quick to condemn others on here quite often.

 

[Joseph77]

Bearing false witness against me or anyone else is not a good idea.

 

[Joseph77]

that was not the intent. Not at all. So obviously I said it completely wrong. I was speaking of myself which was why I mentioned the weakness and sometimes feeling overcome. Thinking your strong but then it doesn’t appear that way. Only meant that is why I was asking Amadeus so many questions concerning it. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean you Amadeus.

I did not think it was your intent - I figured you did not know those men who thought they could throw out a demon in the name of "Jesus who Paul preaches" were not followers of Jesus, not Christians in any sense at all.

Like many all around. Everything must be tested. Nothing is as it seems, and Scripture says before believing , test to be sure it lines up with Scripture.

People do not like it when this instruction in Scripture to all Ekklesia is followed - because that which is someone's idea, but is contrary to Scripture, well, unless they know the purpose of Scripture, they don't like it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I did not think it was your intent - I figured you did not know those men who thought they could throw out a demon in the name of "Jesus who Paul preaches" were not followers of Jesus, not Christians in any sense at all.

Like many all around. Everything must be tested. Nothing is as it seems, and Scripture says before believing , test to be sure it lines up with Scripture.

People do not like it when this instruction in Scripture to all Ekklesia is followed - because that which is someone's idea, but is contrary to Scripture, well, unless they know the purpose of Scripture, they don't like it.

Understood they were not followers. it has been in my mind ever since you quoted the verses on another thread. Did not mean to direct it in any way towards Amadeus. It only come up in discussing who is Greater. Not that it is right but how I viewed it was: The focus being not on their inability to cast the demon out but that they were overcome and stripped naked and ran from the house. If God was in them then one stronger would not have been able to come upon them and overthrow them. Which was why the constant assertion (right or wrong) nothing can overthrow Him. me yes. God no. 2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Not directed at anyone...working it out that is all. considering
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[Joseph77]

"Let the weak say I am strong" in Jesus, not in themselves, as written.
The little children, not the scholars, shall lead...
The sheep are defenseless creatures against the many wolves all around...
Only the Shepherd's CONSTANT CARE OF US protects us and keeps us guarded in Himself, His Way, in Perfect Peace (this is one sure sign we are His, even a sign to our enemies that we are sheep of JESUS! ) ...

The weakest member is protected by Jesus, the Perfect Shepherd, and is safe from those demons,
and delivered by Jesus when there is or was or has been trouble and deception.

The educated ones? If they do not give up everything also, they don't have a chance. (as written in Scripture, the Father HIDES SALVATION from them)

QUOTE="VictoryinJesus, post: 728061, member: 7369"]Understood they were not followers. it has been in my mind ever since you quoted the verses on another thread. Did not mean to direct it in any way towards Amadeus. It only come up in discussing who is Greater. Not that it is right but how I viewed it was: The focus being not on their inability to cast the demon out but that they were overcome and stripped naked and ran from the house. If God was in them then one stronger would not have been able to come upon them and overthrow them. Which was why the constant assertion (right or wrong) nothing can overthrow Him. me yes. God no. 2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Not directed at anyone...working it out that is all. considering
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;[/QUOTE

 

[amadeus]

If I didn’t care about you Amadeus, then it wouldn't matter what you think. Just talking from my heart I felt beat down yesterday. Overwhelmed. The only way I can describe it to you and why it matters is when those thinking they were strong went in and the demon or evil spirits stripped them of their garments and they ran out naked. Do you ever feel weak? So, I don’t mean to question you so much but when I see how powerful God is, how Great He is compared to my weakness...I’m not afraid. Only afraid if God is not with me. Does that make sense?

This kind of reminds me of some who talk on forums as if all their problems were solved for some hereafter and therefore nothing to worry about here. 'Just join them and everything will be OK'.

Or there are others who claim to be among the preselected elect of God and either we, you and I, are or we are not. There is nothing we can do to change this.

I don't belong to either camp and neither do you. How many men and women of God in scriptures have doubts?

When God gives us eyes to see them, they appear naked to us, kind of like the Emperor in the old story who at the instigation and assurance of a scheming tailor went out into the street with nothing on. Everyone refused to admit even to themselves that the Emperor was naked. It took a little child to tell them how it was. That story may help us to understand why Jesus said...

"... Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:3

I guess the ones you mentioned from scripture in themselves believed that they were covered by the power of God when they were not. The demons or evil spirits knew there was no power of God and exposed it graphically by stripping away their natural covering which was the only covering they had. Kind of like Adam and Eve taking on leaves. A better covering was required. What is our covering today?

As older folk in the flesh than any little child, when we take our mind and eyes off of Jesus the age of our fleshly bodies and our fleshly experiences filled with trials comes home to us. Remember Peter's walk on water?

Do I ever feel weak? Every day! But when we feel the weakest is when we must not quit.

"For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection." II Cor 13:9

Admitting to Him that we are weak is what we need to do... but in and with that admission we must also lean on Him all the more heavily. His strength never fails. However when we quit trusting Him, or at least asking Him to help us to trust Him, we, then standing on our own weakness, will fail again.

If or when you stumble or slip or simply take your eyes off Jesus for a bit too long remember again what Peter did when he walked on water.

All of us when we are "in the Spirit" are walking on water. Down in the water is the place where everyone in their flesh dwells. Not a good place!

"And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?" Matt 14:28-31

Peter seeing his Lord stepped out onto the water, walking then on top of all of his troubles and temptations, and he was doing fine until he took his eyes off of Jesus. Then began to sink, but in spite of the rebuke he received from Jesus, Peter did the right thing for when he started to sink when he cried: "Lord save me". Peter, like us, was a stumbler, but he was not a quitter. He called to the Lord for help.

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8

Being afraid when God is not with you certainly would be the time to be afraid... but when is He really not with you?

"... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt 28:20

Don't ever presume or conclude, that because you cannot see Him or hear Him or touch Him or otherwise perceive Him, that He is not there. That is the lie. He is always there! Ask God to show you that as well. Remember the servant who expressed his concern to the prophet about the host surrounding them?

"And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them" II Kings 6:15-16

The servant could not see, but the host on God's side was there.

 

[Cooper]

When Jesus was giving the Sermon on the Mount, and he spoke about Hell Fire, he would have been looking at the Valley of Gehenna where the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire. The people listening to him would have known about Gehenna or hell in our English Bible, which he frequently mentioned, but not so much today. This is what he was talking about.
Gehenna - Wikipedia

Gehenna is a small valley in Jerusalem. In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire. Thereafter, it was deemed to be cursed (Book of Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2–6).[2]

In rabbinic literature, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked. This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, although the King James Version of the Bible usually translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word "hell".

In the King James Version of the Bible, the term appears 13 times in 11 different verses as Valley of Hinnom, Valley of the son of Hinnom or Valley of the children of Hinnom.

The Valley of Hinnom is the modern name for the valley surrounding Jerusalem's Old City, including Mount Zion, from the west and south. It meets and merges with the Kidron Valley, the other principal valley around the Old City, near the southeastern corner of the city.

 

[Joseph77]

I don't belong to either camp and neither do you. How many men and women of God in scriptures have doubts?

I just plucked this out on its own to consider and to compare:

In Scripture, the Ekklesia, in the New Testament, were not depressed.

It is written somewhere even , instead, they were CONTINUALLY, DAILY, FULL of PEACE, JOY and RIGHTEOUSNESS.


So, today, has anyone else ever seen this in person ?

 

[amadeus]

I just plucked this out on its own to consider and to compare:

In Scripture, the Ekklesia, in the New Testament, were not depressed.

It is written somewhere even , instead, they were CONTINUALLY, DAILY, FULL of PEACE, JOY and RIGHTEOUSNESS.


So, today, has anyone else ever seen this in person ?

I remember when I first arrived in that first Pentecostal church and everyone looked so beautiful to me. They were, to me, at the time, seemingly, full of peace, joy and righteousness. I knew God, but I knew practically nothing about Him except that He was good, as the scripture says. But at the time with only a Catholic background I had never read any part of the Bible. In my Catholic days very little of the Bible was read aloud by the priests or anyone else in our gatherings. [This was changed I guess by Vatican II, but I stopped my active Catholicism in 1961 a good while before Vatican II.]

As I started to read for the first time in my life [1976] my own Bible and God started opening a few things to me I also started hearing a few things at church services and seeing those 'beautiful' people anew. The indoctrination was started also, but even then I would not and could not simply take hold of a great many things sent my way... even though supposedly they were God-things.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Mayflower Good morning! I was reading in Revelation chapter 20 this morning and look what I found....
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
— Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
Doesn't that make you ponder...lol? Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt 28:20

Thank you. Never noticed that before. What a promise! "... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt 28:20

Matthew 24:11-13 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Mayflower Good morning! I was reading in Revelation chapter 20 this morning and look what I found....
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
— Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
Doesn't that make you ponder...lol? Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

The fearful are cast in also and consumed. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The fearful are cast in also and consumed. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

My main observation here was that hell is obviously a separate place since it is cast into the lake of fire.
But what you said is absolutely true!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

My main observation here was that hell is obviously a separate place since it is cast into the lake of fire.
But what you said is absolutely true!

Could this be equally said?

1 John 4:18 There is no death in (Christ)love; but perfect love (Christ)casteth out death: because death hath torment. He that is dead has not been made perfect in love.(Christ)

1 John 4:18 There is no hell in love; but perfect love casteth out hell: because hell hath torment. He that is tormented has not made perfect in love.(Christ)


Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Isaiah 25:7-8 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. [8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

 

[Base12]

...Valley of Gehenna where the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire...

Gehenna is the word used for Hell in this verse...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves"

Funny how Jesus says Children come from there...

BTW...

Satan says not to take that verse literally. Illumination is not for the peasants.

 

[Base12]

Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Wait... so Hell is a Belly?

Jonah 2:2
"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice"

Must be another one of those 'It's just poetry' verses I always hear about.

 

[Joseph77]

Using His Name , deceiving, as the sons of sceva did, will not be well with you .....

Funny how Jesus says Children come from there...

 

[Joseph77]

Even God Permits the delusions..... so it is no surprise people do too.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Wait... so Hell is a Belly?

Jonah 2:2
"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice"

Must be another one of those 'It's just poetry' verses I always hear about.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

In the OT ...can’t find it now but fire came down from God and because of the people sins was consuming them and they wailed unto Moses to speak to God and get Him to stop, knowing they would be consumed and nothing left. Torment (IMO) would be being consumed by a consuming fire which consumes all flesh (falsehood) where nothing remains. But something remains. Given by the ministration of the Spirit. Fear of God remains. Fear of men or what can be done to this body is consumed as the word says even if this dissolves, Hope is in Him.