Hell Center of the Earth?

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Timtofly

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Humans will constantly rationalize or justify their thoughts over and over in their head.

The Holy Spirit will let you know which one you are doing.

If you rationalize, those thoughts are fleshly and need to be repented of.

If you justify your thoughts, it is God who justifies your thoughts and actions.

This gets easier as one gains the mind of Christ. The goal Paul set for us to work on.

If you cannot see the difference, to start with, you have to give up what you think you know, and ask God to start placing His wisdom in you.

Reading the Bible is better than reading human conmentary.
 
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Joseph77

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A gift in Jesus, from Jesus, by Jesus, and the Father, the Father's Plan and ACCOMPLISHMENT, as written,
as Jesus taught and revealed to the messenger, Jesus' Emissary, Apostle Paul.
The goal Paul set for us to work on.
 

Heart2Soul

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hasatan stood with others before God in heaven , didn't he? Like also to accuse JOB, and to accuse all the brethren ..... ?
Are you trolling me? Lol....everywhere I go there you are it seems.
Ok so what's your point?
Is heaven anywhere God is?
God is everywhere...Omnipresent
 

Joseph77

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Are you trolling me? Lol....everywhere I go there you are it seems.
Ok so what's your point?
Is heaven anywhere God is?
God is everywhere...Omnipresent
Are you trolling? Everywhere "I" go, there YOU are it seems.
And what's your point?
My point is what God's Word Says Clearly (no ambiguity).

It is written hasatan had access to heaven, NOT that everywhere hasatan was was hell.
Hasatan had access to the Garden - it was not hell.
 

amadeus

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I don’t know. Should have not gone here again. Wish I could understand what you are saying Amadeus, that it would click but it doesn’t. It matters to me because some days it feels as if the flesh is so strong, it wins. Yet God says the flesh is weak. So I ask you like I asked the other member in saying the victory can be lost. “Not if Christ is within. Since Greater is He and nothing can take away a garment which waxes not old nor consumed. None stronger can overcome and take the Armour Of God but instead His Armour remains and endures in His peace(not as the world gives), as He said “put on you the whole Armour Of God”.
Which Acts 5:38-39 Is pretty clear on: “And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.”

If you be found even to fight against God...Who has the Victory?”

Who has the Victory? Who is the Greater within if not God? It is not us. John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Let me try this again in a different way.

In the beginning consider how God created things...

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18

But man had defiled himself, he had defiled the place which was to be God's habitation... and now we will see this [now in some of us?] something new prophesied... What does David write about it?


"Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. " Psalm 69:25

"Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." Prov 8:30-31


How is it we become inhabitable instead of remaining uninhabitable but by the washing away of sin and being filled with the Living Word of God, so as to become a part of the Body of Christ, Jesus himself being the Head. We, you and I, are to be habitable or inhabitable parts of that Body... if we endure with Him to the end of our allotted time.

Consider the type or shadow of men on planet Earth [you and I and each person being the "real" thing, which the type or shadow depicts]. How much of our planet, since Adam and Eve's disobedience, has been easily habitable by men without special protection from the elements or without special work to obtain proper and sufficient places to work and to rest and food to eat?

What part of the planet Earth is the undrinkable water of the oceans?

What part of the planet Earth consists of dry waterless deserts?

What part of the planet Earth consists of frozen waste [e,g, Antarctica]?

What inroads has man made to use some of that uninhabitable space into usable, habitable space?

This is the flesh and its work. What is the work of the Spirit in men?


Insert in place of planet Earth above, "planet VictoryinJesus". What inroads has the Holy Spirit been able to make in you toward converting some of your uninhabitable space into usable, habitable space? When we quench the Holy Spirit in us, we hinder the work of making a greater part of us habitable for God. Consider then that you are to be a part of the whole Body of Christ. The Head, Jesus, is ready, but we know, [don't we?] that the work is incomplete. Jesus said that when He was among us in his flesh:

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

We, that is all of us who are to be parts of the Body of Christ, are where He is to lay or set His Head. Where can Jesus rest? Where is His habitation to be?

"I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:4-5


Where is this habitation? Is your own carnal head completely gone so that Jesus alone is your Head?

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14


And what is this Zion, but a parched, barren wasteland until properly watered?

wyc Tsiyown (tsee-yone'); Proper Name Location, Strong #: 6726
Zion = "parched place"

  1. another name for Jerusalem especially in the prophetic books

"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water." John 4:10

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John 7:38

How much and how often does it need to watered before every nook and cranny of our barren, parched wasteland becomes a place habitable by God almighty? The two parts within are the two very unequal twins in the womb:

"I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness." Mal 1:2-3


The old man needs to die, to be killed. The killer is to be the new man. When the old is completely dead, then will the whole be inhabitable by God.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Are you trolling? Everywhere "I" go, there YOU are it seems.
And what's your point?
My point is what God's Word Says Clearly (no ambiguity).
So do you think I was speaking literally? I was creating a point to ponder...and you are going after it as if I was quoting a scripture.

It is written hasatan had access to heaven, NOT that everywhere hasatan was was hell.
Hasatan had access to the Garden - it was not hell.
 
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Joseph77

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"So do you think I was speaking literally? I was creating a point to ponder...and you are going after it as if I was quoting a scripture."

I did not note nor notice at the time if you were speaking literally or not.

I was and did bring up Scripture to consider while pondering any point brought up.
 

Dcopymope

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The church I like to visit, not my home church, mentioned on Easter that Hell was in the center of the earth. I started skimming online and see where that comes from, and I believe Hell is a literal place. It is weird for me to think the center of the earth is Hell though. No offense to any who believe this way. I just never heard of it before. Anyone believe this way? What are your main arguments for this/against this? I never heard of anything like that. If I did, I dismissed the idea without thinking about it.

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If hell was at the center of the earth, I think God would have mentioned it when he created earth and chastised Adam and Eve for being disobedient. Also, if "hell" is a place of torment for the wicked, then its also a place of torment for the saintly since David believed this was his destination when he died.

(Psalms 16:10-11) "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. {11} Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore."

Of course I am aware that there are three different hell's referred to throughout the Bible, this one in particular being "sheol" which is nothing more than the abode of the dead, "wicked" or not. Now this is the first "hell", the second hell I'll address is this place called "tarturus", also known by other names like "chains of darkness", and "bottomless pit". It is this one that I find most interesting, and may very well be located on earth, in a sense, if the book of revelation has anything to say about it. There are currently angels imprisoned there right now, and is the same place that Satan will be locked in during the millennial kingdom.

(2 Peter 2:4-5) "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; {5} And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;"

The key word here is "chains", because "chains" will also be used to bind Satan to cast him into the pit, and it must be one hell of an awesome chain if it can bind a mighty angelic being. I also find it interesting that a seal is placed on Satan as well. This is always overlooked.

(Revelation 20:1-3) "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. {2} And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, {3} And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

So it can be stated with some certainty that this is the "chains of darkness" Peter referred to. With the way the bottomless pit is depicted, it is possible that it is at least somewhere within the vicinity of earth since the angel that has the key to it has to fall from heaven "unto the earth" to open it to begin with. The smoke rising from this "pit" blackening the sky and sun is also another huge indication of it being on earth.

The Fifth Trumpet:

(Revelation 9:1-2) "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. {2} And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

The notion that there are angels bound in the earth has been postulated by many for a long time. They often use the book of Enoch as their source for this, but we really don't have to use it since revelation yet again states on no uncertain terms that there are indeed angels bound in the earth somehow.

The Sixth Trumpet:

(Revelation 9:13-16) "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, {14} Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. {15} And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. {16} And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them."

To me this is smoking gun evidence that there are places on earth that are specifically designed to bind angels. This may come as a shock to some believers when it happens, although it shouldn't because the book is pretty clear on this, including extra Biblical sources. But this is only the second hell referred to in the Bible. We now come to the last hell often referred to as a place of torment, the place reserved for Satan and his angels for judgment where the fire is never quenched, or "Gehenna". I need not use any other scripture but the one about the Great White throne judgement. To me this shows that the lake of fire is not a place in the earth. It can't possibly be in the earth since heaven and earth passes away during the judgement, while the Lake of Fire is still alive and kicking.

(Revelation 20:10-11) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. {11} And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."..............

(Revelation 20:14-15) "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
 
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VictoryinJesus

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The old man needs to die, to be killed. The killer is to be the new man. When the old is completely dead, then will the whole be inhabitable by God.

Something about that is still off for me. Thinking we just see it differently here. It is God who “inhabits” the New Man and overcomes the Old. That we have to kill off our old man first ...clean our own house first...if it is empty the latter state is worse than the first. Doesn’t sound right. (Not saying it isn’t.) But by the “indwelling” of the Spirit of God —God the Father who is Greater—no greater is there or could ever be, “in you.”
 

amadeus

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Something about that is still off for me. Thinking we just see it differently here. It is God who “inhabits” the New Man and overcomes the Old. That we have to kill off our old man first ...clean our own house first...if it is empty the latter state is worse than the first. Doesn’t sound right. (Not saying it isn’t.) But by the “indwelling” of the Spirit of God —God the Father who is Greater—no greater there is or could ever be, in you.
The new man has to overcome. He is not born in us already having overcome. He is born in us so that he can overcome. Before Jesus and pouring out of the Holy Ghost, the average believing 'Joe' could not overcome the world of men's ways. God made it a possibility, but we, once the Door is open, have the option. This is the fight to on within each believer until...?

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Our 'free will' choice is to surrender to the Holy Spirit in us or to quench the Holy Spirit and lead ourselves. When we lead ourselves in spiritual battles, we lose. When the Holy Spirit leads, he wins.
 

VictoryinJesus

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"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

James 4:1-3 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

“And receive not” receive not Him. For the carnal man can not receive the things of God for the carnal man can not know Him. One must be born of the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 
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Joseph77

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QUOTE
="VictoryinJesus, post: 727761, member: 7369"]James 4:1-3 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

“And receive not” receive not Him. For the carnal man can not receive the things of God for the carnal man can not know Him. One must be born of the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [4]

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[/QUOTE
 

amadeus

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James 4:1-3 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

“And receive not” receive not Him. For the carnal man can not receive the things of God for the carnal man can not know Him. One must be born of the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
You see that the questions keep coming in our sometimes seriously sincere attempts to answer one another's questions. This brings us back to the "born of the Spirit" question, which some people ask in particular about others, but of themselves, what of myself? You want a hard, black and white clear answer, but you will only have it for sure when and if God gives it to you.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

So then having thought ourselves born again , or from above, or of God, we then see ourselves or others who believe to be born again in what appears to sin. The question is are they then, or are we then really born again?

That what came to my mind so I wrote it. The born again question is a very real one. Does the Father recognize His child? Yes, but when is it that the child comes to recognize his Father?


I see what I see and when I answer you the best way that I can at the moment express, you say something like: "Something about that is still off for me."... and so it is, but then we must both remember these words that Paul penned:

"For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." I Cor 3:4-6


Not me and not you! Sometimes God may use me or you to increase another person, but sometimes Not!
 

VictoryinJesus

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You see that the questions keep coming in our sometimes seriously sincere attempts to answer one another's questions. This brings us back to the "born of the Spirit" question, which some people ask in particular about others, but of themselves, what of myself? You want a hard, black and white clear answer, but you will only have it for sure when and if God gives it to you.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

So then having thought ourselves born again , or from above, or of God, we then see ourselves or others who believe to be born again in what appears to sin. The question is are they then, or are we then really born again?

That what came to my mind so I wrote it. The born again question is a very real one. Does the Father recognize His child? Yes, but when is it that the child comes to recognize his Father?


I see what I see and when I answer you the best way that I can at the moment express, you say something like: "Something about that is still off for me."... and so it is, but then we must both remember these words that Paul penned:

"For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." I Cor 3:4-6


Not me and not you! Sometimes God may use me or you to increase another person, but sometimes Not!

If I didn’t care about you Amadeus, then it wouldn't matter what you think. Just talking from my heart I felt beat down yesterday. Overwhelmed. The only way I can describe it to you and why it matters is when those thinking they were strong went in and the demon or evil spirits stripped them of their garments and they ran out naked. Do you ever feel weak? So, I don’t mean to question you so much but when I see how powerful God is, how Great He is compared to my weakness...I’m not afraid. Only afraid if God is not with me. Does that make sense?
 
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Joseph77

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@amadeus is a believer, a Christian, with faith in JESUS. (regardless how much or how little strength).

To compare him to those UNbelievers who tried to USURP "Jesus Who Paul Preaches", with NO FAITH IN JESUS,

seems entirely inappropriate to me.

The weakest, smallest, tiniest CHRISTIAN (True Christian), has more authority and more LIFE IN JESUS,

than those UNbelievers by far.
 

marksman

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Just thinking of walking around with people burning beneath my feet, this realm or spiritual, is just a bit creepy. :D Guess that would get people to evangelize more for sure.

Do we know what or where hell is? There are some very descriptive verses in the scripture that gives the idea that it is an eternal fire but does it mean fire as we know it or is it a metaphor.

I have had some discussions about this recently and I had this feeling that hell depicted as fire is depicted as such because of the hell that unbelievers experience is not a physical hell in that respect - fire, but having to live suffering the result of their sin and what it does to people.

So by way of example, a person who is an unrepentant murderer spend eternity getting killed all the time. He is killed, he comes back to life and he is killed again, comes back to life and he is killed again. It feels as though he is constantly in a burning fire because there is no relief from getting killed. And as he does not know when he is going to get killed again, it is a hell of an existence.
 

Dcopymope

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Do we know what or where hell is? There are some very descriptive verses in the scripture that gives the idea that it is an eternal fire but does it mean fire as we know it or is it a metaphor.

I have had some discussions about this recently and I had this feeling that hell depicted as fire is depicted as such because of the hell that unbelievers experience is not a physical hell in that respect - fire, but having to live suffering the result of their sin and what it does to people.

So by way of example, a person who is an unrepentant murderer spend eternity getting killed all the time. He is killed, he comes back to life and he is killed again, comes back to life and he is killed again. It feels as though he is constantly in a burning fire because there is no relief from getting killed. And as he does not know when he is going to get killed again, it is a hell of an existence.

As for the lake of fire, its clearly not fire as we know it since it can kill not only the body but the spirit as well, hence why its called the second death. God himself is described as a consuming fire, but we wouldn't say its the fire we can start in a chimney.