Obviously too complicated for me!!
I don't 'think' that deeply these days
I am just a simple thinker.
Bless you....H
I like to get into the deeper understanding... but then had the time to spend years going step by step.
God Bless,
Taken
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Obviously too complicated for me!!
I don't 'think' that deeply these days
I am just a simple thinker.
Bless you....H
I never seem to get on well talking to you....but I will give it another try.
Just a thought. But, how do you reckon that if God breathed life...soul into man, that the soul didn't exist before then?
If it came from God...it did.
And how do you reckon it 'ceases to be' after death....when it returns back to God who gave it? The soul/spirit comes from God and returns to God. Who is The Consuming Fire...
Ex 24 17 "And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount..."
Deut 4:24 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire "
Hebrews 12 29
" For our God is a consuming fire."
God obviously do not consume what is "like Him" therefore He consumes what is not like him... With the three Hebrew young men in the fire...all that was consumed were the ropes that bound them.
They walked around in the Fire with One likened to the Son of God.
I can't see how anything 'spiritual' soul or spirit can somehow not exist.
'....H
It is too bad that you believe only those who understand such things are as you say, "well established". To me it would seem infinitely more important to know the Lord as one we can talk to and trust whether or not we can understand all of the little details of theology which may or may not really be important in God's eyes. Is not Love or Charity more important than the knowledge our brains can gather and from which conclusions can be drawn from our Bible studies?I’m sorry but might I inquire how long you have been a believer my sister? The reason I ask this is because your understanding of a “soul” and what exactly it consist of can be used as a gauge or measure of your growth and understanding in the doctrines of Christ. The doctrine of the soul is what we would consider a basic or first principle doctrine, part of the “milk of the word”, a basic doctrine, which any true believer if he or she has been a Christian for some time should be well established in.
Even if you were correct in saying that most here are not established in the truth, is it appropriate for you to presume to point your finger in accusation at a sister who has shown so much love for people? What saith it?However from reading many of the comments on this forum not only in regards to this one particular doctrine but likewise in regards to several other basic doctrines it is apparent that most here are not “establish in the truth” (2 Pet 1:12) that many are still being “blown about by every wind of doctrine (teaching upon a particular subject)” Eph 4:14. “Ever learning (seeking), but never able to arrive at the truth.” (2 Tim 3:7)
The "likes" people post quite often have little or nothing to do with agreeing with what is posted. Sometimes we like the heart of the person as displayed by his spirit or attitude even though the words may express something with which we disagree. We should be careful about drawing the wrong conclusions from those "likes".How do we know this?
Well it’s fairly easy to discern we see it often on this forum, first we see someone posting a statement or replying to a comment stating one position upon a subject and then else where we find them either stating something totally different or they are found “liking” i.e. agreeing with someone else statement, which completely contradicts what they had previous said. This individual is not “established in the truth” and needs to return to a study of the first principle doctrines that they might be properly instructed. Take one doctrine at a time and fully digest it, learn it thoroughly make sure you are settled and established in it before proceeding to the next. Each doctrine (truth) should be in complete harmony with the next, if it is not than something is wrong with our understanding, for God’s word does not contradict itself.
Maybe the best way to proceed is to gradually increase our conversation [prayer] with God "here a little and there a little" from moment to moment and from day to day as well as increasing our rejoicing in Him "here a little and there a little" from moment to moment and from day to day. A lot of study even of the scriptures without the leading of the Holy Spirit is what?This is the Lord’s chosen method which you would be wise to follow, “For precept [truth] must be upon precept [truth]; "line [of reasoning] upon line [of reasoning]"; here a little, and there a little.” (Isa 28:10)
Some people may do as you say, but you should be careful about throwing everyone here or most people here or even any single person from this forum into that pot without knowing each one as God knows each one:I think the problem is that many are to eager to “follow the crowd”, they want to be a part of the “accepted group” and as such they are willing to sacrifice their own beliefs, which evidently they are not so sure of so as not to appear as an outsider in opposition with the view being propagated by the majority.
Again, being established in the truth is, as I see it, being established in Jesus. Study is a good thing, but some people study a lot and still do not have all of the details in mind, but is that really the most important thing to God?Now some will argue that anyone who claims to be “established in the truth” is being a bit boastful, proud, arrogant, but we disagree. "The difference between the strong and steadfast Christian and a bigot is that the one is established in the truth, while the other is established in error."
Understand that being established in the truth does not mean knowing all truth; it simply means that the truths which you do possess you have become established, learned, settled in them so much so that you can’t be moved by any other wind of doctrine.
We have attempted to explain this issue concerning the soul as clear as possible several times, and even posted a blog post on this site covering this issue, if you haven’t already taken a look please do so that you might become established and settled on this issue once and for all. It’s entitled “What is a Soul”.
"Be no more children tossed about with every wind of doctrine." (Eph 4:14)
Good word Amadeus "2 thumbs up". ♥It is too bad that you believe only those who understand such things are as you say, "well established". To me it would seem infinitely more important to know the Lord as one we can talk to and trust whether or not we can understand all of the little details of theology which may or may not really be important in God's eyes. Is not Love or Charity more important than the knowledge our brains can gather and from which conclusions can be drawn from our Bible studies?
Should you be insulting people because they do not seem to understand or agree with your position of things or what you consider the most important things. Perhaps it is you who cannot see or understand their connection with God... even though you apparently believe that you can.
Even if you were correct in saying that most here are not established in the truth, is it appropriate for you to presume to point your finger in accusation at a sister who has shown so much love for people? What saith it?
"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." I Cor 13:13
Knowledge in not even listed with these three, rather when you read an earlier verse it says:
"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2
We are not all expected by God to be Bible experts, but we are expected to have the charity about which Apostle Paul is writing.
The "likes" people post quite often have little or nothing to do with agreeing with what is posted. Sometimes we like the heart of the person as displayed by his spirit or attitude even though the words may express something with which we disagree. We should be careful about drawing the wrong conclusions from those "likes".
As to the best way to come to the "truth" would you not say rather that the best way to come to know the "truth" which Jesus is by immersing yourself in the Holy Spirit and then following the lead of the Holy Spirit in all things? Without the Holy Spirit who can understand what is written in the scriptures? Can an Einstein who leans on his own brain power alone to search for truth surpass an illiterate person who cannot even read the Bible, but who prays without ceasing and rejoices in the Lord always?
Maybe the best way to proceed is to gradually increase our conversation [prayer] with God "here a little and there a little" from moment to moment and from day to day as well as increasing our rejoicing in Him "here a little and there a little" from moment to moment and from day to day. A lot of study even of the scriptures without the leading of the Holy Spirit is what?
"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12
Some people may do as you say, but you should be careful about throwing everyone here or most people here or even any single person from this forum into that pot without knowing each one as God knows each one:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2
Again, being established in the truth is, as I see it, being established in Jesus. Study is a good thing, but some people study a lot and still do not have all of the details in mind, but is that really the most important thing to God?
God knows exactly what He gave each one of us. He also knows exactly what each one of us has done and is doing with what we have been given. Do you or I?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
It is too bad that you believe only those who understand such things are as you say, "well established". To me it would seem infinitely more important to know the Lord as one we can talk to and trust whether or not we can understand all of the little details of theology which may or may not really be important in God's eyes. Is not Love or Charity more important than the knowledge our brains can gather and from which conclusions can be drawn from our Bible studies?
Should you be insulting people because they do not seem to understand or agree with your position of things or what you consider the most important things. Perhaps it is you who cannot see or understand their connection with God... even though you apparently believe that you can.
Even if you were correct in saying that most here are not established in the truth, is it appropriate for you to presume to point your finger in accusation at a sister who has shown so much love for people? What saith it?
"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." I Cor 13:13
Knowledge in not even listed with these three, rather when you read an earlier verse it says:
"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2
We are not all expected by God to be Bible experts, but we are expected to have the charity about which Apostle Paul is writing.
The "likes" people post quite often have little or nothing to do with agreeing with what is posted. Sometimes we like the heart of the person as displayed by his spirit or attitude even though the words may express something with which we disagree. We should be careful about drawing the wrong conclusions from those "likes".
As to the best way to come to the "truth" would you not say rather that the best way to come to know the "truth" which Jesus is by immersing yourself in the Holy Spirit and then following the lead of the Holy Spirit in all things? Without the Holy Spirit who can understand what is written in the scriptures? Can an Einstein who leans on his own brain power alone to search for truth surpass an illiterate person who cannot even read the Bible, but who prays without ceasing and rejoices in the Lord always?
Maybe the best way to proceed is to gradually increase our conversation [prayer] with God "here a little and there a little" from moment to moment and from day to day as well as increasing our rejoicing in Him "here a little and there a little" from moment to moment and from day to day. A lot of study even of the scriptures without the leading of the Holy Spirit is what?
"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12
Some people may do as you say, but you should be careful about throwing everyone here or most people here or even any single person from this forum into that pot without knowing each one as God knows each one:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2
Again, being established in the truth is, as I see it, being established in Jesus. Study is a good thing, but some people study a lot and still do not have all of the details in mind, but is that really the most important thing to God?
God knows exactly what He gave each one of us. He also knows exactly what each one of us has done and is doing with what we have been given. Do you or I?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
imo if you find yourself talking to someone who says they are established in the truth then you better runmost here are not established in the truth
an obvious sign, no offense harvestIt is too bad that you believe only those who understand such things are as you say, "well established"
wadr we call those opinions, not facts?I was only stating the facts as based upon my observations of some of the discourses between various brethren on this site.
with the facts again, sheesh. I mean you surely see that that same guy might also be attempting to change his mind and escape religion, i'm on the run but i could easily make the case Scripturally later if you need me to, which i doubt you do. A point here being that you are still asserting your opinions as facts wadrWhoever is continually looking around for something new (blown about by every wind of doctrine) is thus demonstrating the fact that he is not established in the Faith.
imo if you find yourself talking to someone who says they are established in the truth then you better run
i use/abuse Constantine the Sol worshipper a lot, but that does not mean i consider myself superior to him, or that he is condemned or anything. i have never been called upon to keep an empire together personally lol
an obvious sign, no offense harvest
wadr we call those opinions, not facts?
The "Soul" and the "Spirit" are not the same thing.I never seem to get on well talking to you....but I will give it another try.
Just a thought. But, how do you reckon that if God breathed life...soul into man, that the soul didn't exist before then?
If it came from God...it did.
And how do you reckon it 'ceases to be' after death....when it returns back to God who gave it? The soul/spirit comes from God and returns to God. Who is The Consuming Fire...
Ex 24 17 "And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount..."
Deut 4:24 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire "
Hebrews 12 29
" For our God is a consuming fire."
God obviously do not consume what is "like Him" therefore He consumes what is not like him... With the three Hebrew young men in the fire...all that was consumed were the ropes that bound them.
They walked around in the Fire with One likened to the Son of God.
I can't see how anything 'spiritual' soul or spirit can somehow not exist.
'....H
"The man Jesus ceased to exist but the Divine Jesus resurrected Him 3 days later."
Thank you for your consideration. What you call facts I would simply call opinions or beliefs.I know my brother that you have difficulty in reading posts because of your eyes therefore I will break up my responses into smaller posts. Please allow me first to apologize it was not my intention to pass judgement on any one here, especially on ByGrace, I was only stating the facts as based upon my observations of some of the discourses between various brethren on this site. Having participated in many different Christian forums this is something I see all the time, many being blown about by every wind of doctrine.
What are these first principles of which you speak. Maybe I overlooked your specific input on this. If anywhere I might look here:
You state: It is too bad that you believe only those who understand such things are as you say, "well established".
In Reply, First of all keep in mind what we are discussing here; we’re not talking about the “deep things” of the Word of God, but rather the “basic or first principle doctrines of Christ”
It is not we who say only those who understand such things are well established it is the Word of God that says so. The Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear in Hebrews Chapter 5 when speaking of some brethren who were not so established.
Verse 12 “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.”
“The Hebrew brethren to whom Paul wrote (like many believers today) had been in the Truth long enough that they ought to have been skilled in the use of the Word, not only established in the first principles themselves, but able to explain and teach them to others.
Paul does not in any sense minimize the importance of the milk of the Word. Indeed, he tells the Hebrew brethren that they needed to have the first principles taught to them again. Because of neglected privileges, neglected opportunities for study and prayer and fellowship, they had not grown in the knowledge of the LORD and of his Truth, and had even lost some of the clear vision of the Truth which, for a while, they had enjoyed.
Real growth in knowledge is possible only when the basic principles of the Truth are kept in mind and used as a foundation upon which to build, but of course this first implies that we are established in those principles having studied the doctrine for ourselves proving all things.
Your effective placement of charity/love below knowledge by using what to me is a poor wording [translation] of that proverb convinces me not. Consider rather these renderings:
You state: To me it would seem infinitely more important to know the Lord as one we can talk to and trust whether or not we can understand all of the little details of theology which may or may not really be important in God's eyes. Is not Love or Charity more important than the knowledge our brains can gather and from which conclusions can be drawn from our Bible studies?
In Reply, We are not here speaking about “little details of theology” as you say, but rather the fundamental truths of our faith, prerequisite to the establishment of a sure faith structure without the proper understanding of which we would being found building upon the sure foundation (our faith in Jesus Christ) with the wrong materials, with wood, hay and straw (human traditions and errors, i.e. the precepts and teachings of men) none of which will stand up in the “day of trial” which is shortly coming upon the whole world.(1 Cor 3:12, 13)
And yes love is more important than knowledge, but as the Lord likewise states, “It is not good to have zeal (love) without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way,” (Prov 19:2) something which many professed believers have done.