Hell is Forever - Punishment, Torment or Torture - You Would Not Cease to Exist

[Vexatious]

INDEED A PARABLE IS A HISTORICAL ACCOUNT!

Parables are not history because 1) history is not their definition, 2) they're not presented as history, 3) they sometimes contain elements that cannot be historical, 4) there's no known history that Jesus is referencing, and 5) it's irrelevant if the contents of a parable had happened in history.

Your reasoning is nonsense, that they have to be historical or they'd be lies. They'd only be lies if Jesus said they happened and they hadn't happened. Jesus didn't say they happened.

Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak, we read in Mark 4:34.

To that one crowed, Jesus spoke in parables, but Mark 4:34 says Jesus did NOT speak in parables to his disciples afterword.

To God Be The Glory

Then stop being in inglorious representative, spewing nonsense in the face of all reason.

 

[Taken]

Your entire argument is based on the wild speculation that "parables are lies so Jesus never told one" -- which is totally false.

Do you forget so quickly....your explanation?

You are the one who said;

PARABLES are NOT literal

??

Parables "are not lies"

So now you think PARABLES "ARE" words used in the strict meaning of the words?

Poor thing....
severely lacking in understanding!

Men speak in PARABLES According To, their nature, telling a story, speaking words in allegories, To get a Point across.

Apparently, unbeknownst TO YOU...
Jesus' nature IS NOT "EARTHLY" NATURAL!
Jesus came forth out from God in Heaven!
Jesus IS the TRUTH!
He can, According TO HIS Heavenly nature, only, literally Speak the Truth!

Allegory, Figuratively, not Literal, Does NOT APPLY TO Jesus!

When Jesus opened His mouth and spoke PARABLES To a Crowd....

Some, like you, believed, He was simply telling a MADE UP (which is NOT TRUTHS), Allegorical story, To make a Point......

While others, like me, do not care if His speech IS CALLED, a story, a parable, whatever.......but hang ON HIS EVERY WORD as ABSOLUTE TRUTH....and HIS WORD coming out of the MOUTH of He WHO IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

YOU go through Jesus' Parables, with the nature of a natural man, LOOKING FOR A POINT.

I go through Jesus' Parables, LEARNING, "secrets" that "Had been KEPT SECRET" from natural men, and Being Revealed out of Jesus' mouth.....

Many like you, read and dismiss the words in Jesus' Parables .... Even scripture tells of the huge crowds, and men walking away IN DISBELIEF.

It's like saying, yah, yah, "believe in Jesus, but not what He says".....

Matt 13:35
....I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Secrets Jesus uttered....that you do not believe.

That's on you.

Glory to God.
Taken

 

[Taken]

Definition --

"A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse that illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters"

By contrast there is "historic account" --

You are creatively suggesting the idea that all parables are 'historic accounts' -

I neither said or suggested that.

something that no Bible scholar would defend.

So? That is what you said, not me.
Thanks for telling me, a Bible scholar would not defend you.

You add to that creative effort by claiming that Christ "would be a liar" if He used parables

No i didn't!

I said, Jesus used Parables.
I futher said, the meaning of Parable, has NO APPLICATION TO Jesus.

Apparently Too deep for you.
Jesus speaks only what is TRUE!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jun2u]

Then stop being in inglorious representative, spewing nonsense in the face of all reason.

Tell me how to understand when John the Baptist introduced Jesus to the world, "Behold the Lord Jesus which take away the sin of the world." Oops, I mean that's the way I would have said it but John said it, "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world."

We know John 1:29 is speaking about the Lord Jesus but Jesus is NOT an animal. Tell me how would you have understand John 1:29?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Phoneman777]

Hey, if you do not understand, bodies come from the earth and return to the earth.....
And Living souls come from God, and are WITHIN the body, and Living souls DEPART dead bodies....
Bodies Return to Dust.

Genesis 2:7 disagrees with the part in red. It says the Living Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Breath of Life and a Body, in which case logic demands that when the Breath of Life departs the Body, the Living Soul ceases to exist. Therefore, it is impossible for any dead person to be eternally tormented.

BTW, I can show you where the wages of sin is "death". Can you find me a text that says "the wages of sin is eternal torment"? I haven't yet.

 

[Phoneman777]

What are you babbling on about? Let's examine....Your word......"existence"..You claim "existence" is IN "Gen 2: 7"...

Let's not start splitting hairs.

While Genesis 2:7 doesn't expressly use the words "exist" or "existence", it certainly presents the concept of something coming into existence by the word "became" --- namely, "...and man became a Living Soul".

The dead body that was shaped into the form of a man was not a Living Soul until God's Breath of Life entered it - at which point that Body became a Living Soul - the word "became" indicating something new broke forth into existence.

 

[BobRyan]

No, as the following ONCE again demonstrates.
You admit...PARABLES "by Definition" "contain elements" "to illustrate a "main point".

The fact is: PARABLES "by definition" are typically "a MADE up story"

Definition --

"A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse that illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters"

By contrast there is "historic account" --

You are creatively suggesting the idea that all parables are 'historic accounts' -

something that no Bible scholar would defend.

You add to that creative effort by claiming that Christ "would be a liar" if He used parables in addition to "historic accounts" to make his point.

Thanks for telling me, a Bible scholar would not defend you.

I find your logic "illusive"

 

[BobRyan]

What you FAIL to comprehend....IS:
Nothing UN-TRUTHFUL could/can come out of Jesus mouth.

Your entire argument is based on the wild speculation that "parables are lies so Jesus never told one" -- which is totally false.

Parables "are not lies"
Parables illustrate a point
Parables are not historic accounts/records
Parables often include scenarios that are not facts in real life such as praying to the dead in Luke 16.

So now you think PARABLES "ARE" words used in the strict meaning of the words?

I find your logic illusive

 

[Taken]

Genesis 2:7 disagrees with the part in red.

You should learn the difference between LIMITED information that only reveals

A man formed from dust of the ground.
God blows His breath "INTO" the formed man
Life and soul from God, is now within the formed man.

It is Genesis...keep reading. Everything is not revealed at the beginning of man's creation!

It says the Living Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Breath of Life and a Body,

No, Gen 2:7 does not say that.

in which case

....Your words should not be considered instead of Scripture.

logic demands

Logic is a deduction of the Mind.
Haven't you heard?..The Mind is Against God.

No need to depend on Logic in an attempt to conclude what is the Truth.
Haven't you heard?..the TRUTH came forth out of Gods mouth.

that when the Breath of Life departs the Body,

The Body's Life Becomes Dead.
The Body is buried and returns to Dust.

the Living Soul ceases to exist.

The Life in a soul belongs to God.
....Jesus says: John 14:6 "I am....the life"
All souls belong to God.
....God says: ..."all souls are mine".

and you say...

"When the body dies...

the Living Soul ceases to exist

No. The Living soul DOES NOT CEASE to exist. The Living soul Departs out of a dying body.

Therefore, it is impossible for any dead person to be eternally tormented.

Person?
Dead bodies, KNOW NOTHING. Ecc 9:5
How does a BODY that knows nothing, suffer "eternal torment"...?

BTW, "eternal torment" happens in HELL.
Do you think DEAD BODIES are "buried in Hell"?

Living souls have not been JUDGED yet...(you know, Judgement Day??)

How does a NON-EXISTANT, as you say...soul, even KNOW its "JUDGEMENT" if it is "non-existent", as you say?

BTW, I can show you where the wages of sin is "death".

Can you also explain EXACTLY what that means?

Can you find me a text that says "the wages of sin is eternal torment"? I haven't yet.

And? Who said you should find such a text?

Perhaps you could answer the questions?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Phoneman777]

You should learn the difference between LIMITED information that only reveals

A man formed from dust of the ground.
God blows His breath "INTO" the formed man
Life and soul from God, is now within the formed man.

Sorry, but it doesn't say that. It says "...man BECAME a Living Soul". Man does not "have" a soul - man "IS" a soul.

 

[Taken]

Still you have not grasped...
1) How to quote a posters words instead of speaking for them.
2) Logic is concluded out of the Mind.
3) Jesus' TRUTH is absolute.
4) Your failure is trying to have a MINDFUL LOGICAL conversation with people who are speaking of SPIRITUAL TRUTHS.

Keep Trying.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Sorry, but it doesn't say that. It says "...man BECAME a Living Soul". Man does not "have" a soul - man "IS" a soul.

Clarify...

Did man stop being a FORMED BODY?

Glorify to God,
Taken

 

[Phoneman777]

Clarify...Did man stop being a FORMED BODY? Glorify to God, Taken

He stopped being MERELY a formed Body...a dead Body...and became a Living Soul.

"Nephesh" - (Strong's H5314); "a breathing creature" is derived from the root "Naphash" which means "to breathe". Therefore, "Nephesh" is very closely connected to the Breath of Life - God's life giving principle that animates the inanimate - and light years away from what popular Christianity claims it to be: a transparent, intangible, ghostly replica of a person that at death is released to fly off to enjoy heaven or be tormented in hell, which idea was born in paganism.

"Nephesh" is widely used to describe various attributes of the whole creature: a "life", "the mind", "inner man", etc. However, this should not lead you or anyone to redefine what the word means: "a breathing creature"- to the exclusion of that to which it pertains - the entirety, wholeness, completeness of that creature. A "Soul" is a man, dog, rhino, or any "breathing creature".

That is why the "Living Soul" can only exist as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and to suggest that it continues to exist after the dissolution of this union defies both logic and common sense.

Body + Breath of Life = Living Soul comes into existence
Body - Breath of Life = Living Soul ceases to exist

Bulb + Electric Current = Light come into existence
Bulb - Electric Current = Light ceases to exist

 

[Taken]

He stopped being MERELY a formed Body...a dead Body..

A dead body? What do you mean, a formed body STOPS being a DEAD BODY?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

He stopped being MERELY a formed Body...a dead Body...and became a Living Soul.

Could you clarify without the conflicting words?

stopped, formed DEAD body, became

.

The topic is about WHAT an Earthly Man IS, so far Revealed "As".

Is a thing FORMED from Dust ever called a man-Kind of thing?

Is THAT ^ FORMED Kind of THING, dead or alive or something else?

Is anything IMPARTED "INTO" THAT man-KIND of THING?

If so, What is Imparted "into" that Man-Kind of THING?

Where does the thing IMPARTED "INTO" the FORMED kind of thing, come From?

And Now What "All" is The thing Formed from Dust Called?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

The soul lives in darkness...until brought into the light of life.

All the senses are in the body. They are carnal. They feed the soul with connectivity to this temporal world. So then it is easy to be carnal...if we rely only on our carnal senses for truth. This is a carnal man.

Then there is the spirit in a man that can also guide the soul once a person is born in the Spirit. God can feed the soul through the spirit in a man. This is a spiritual man.

So we have input from both/and the body or Spirit if we are regenerated to have a connection with God in our own spirits.

Then there is the added problem of a soul that seeks to feed itself.

Once a person knows what it wants....or thinks it needs...the soul will take over and use any or all means to get what it desires. This is the soulish man.

So the soul of man is suspended between the body and the spirit and given 3 choices.

Either to be led by the flesh...or by the Spirit. Or, more commonly...to be self-willed...living by one's own inner desires for happiness.

 

[Taken]

The soul lives in darkness...until brought into the light of life.

Presuming you are speaking of a soul WITHIN a corrupt man....then I would agree.

All the senses are in the body.

Somewhat disagree.
The "senses" I would say are in the soul, and the soul IN the body.

EX. The body of dust was created with ears, a nose, eyes....but the ability to Hear, smell, See...is effected through impartation of the soul into the body.

They are carnal. They feed the soul

Disagree.
The Mind is carnal. It relates to the physical MIND, that has the capability to formulate thoughts, and act on those thoughts or not.

What the Carnal Mind thinks and does...by default "AFFECTS" what is IN that Body...
Carnally decide to EAT to much, that affects the body.
Carnally decide to Lie, that affects the soul.

.if we rely only on our carnal senses for truth.

Agree with your point of reliance.
Disagree with the terminology;
Carnal senses, for truth.

Then there is the spirit in a man that can also guide the soul

Agree.

once a person is born in the Spirit.

Somewhat disagree.
Don't believe a "person" is born in the Spirit.
Do believe the natural spirit of man can guide a mans Carnal thoughts and effect the soul within.
Do believe the natural spirit of man IS WHAT an imparted SEED of God, rebirths.

God can feed the soul through the spirit in a man.

Disagree. God FEEDS the born again spirit. The soul within becomes affected WITH what the Born Again Spirit is being fed.

Either to be led by the flesh...or by the Spirit. Or, more commonly...to be self-willed...living by one's own inner desires for happiness.

Get your point, but don't expressly agree with how you arrive at your point.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

Genesis 2:7 disagrees with the part in red. It says the Living Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Breath of Life and a Body, in which case logic demands that when the Breath of Life departs the Body, the Living Soul ceases to exist. Therefore, it is impossible for any dead person to be eternally tormented.

BTW, I can show you where the wages of sin is "death". Can you find me a text that says "the wages of sin is eternal torment"? I haven't yet.

I never seem to get on well talking to you....but I will give it another try.

Just a thought. But, how do you reckon that if God breathed life...soul into man, that the soul didn't exist before then?
If it came from God...it did.

And how do you reckon it 'ceases to be' after death....when it returns back to God who gave it? The soul/spirit comes from God and returns to God. Who is The Consuming Fire...

Ex 24 17 "And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount..."
Deut 4:24 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire "

Hebrews 12 29
" For our God is a consuming fire."
God obviously do not consume what is "like Him" therefore He consumes what is not like him... With the three Hebrew young men in the fire...all that was consumed were the ropes that bound them.
They walked around in the Fire with One likened to the Son of God.

I can't see how anything 'spiritual' soul or spirit can somehow not exist.

'....H

 

[Taken]

Just a thought. But, how do you reckon that if God breathed life...soul into man, that the soul didn't exist before then?
If it came from God...it did.

Would address each thing....
"Living" "soul".
Agree the LIFE is "out from God".
The "soul" is an unseen thing, that God has made.

And how do you reckon it 'ceases to be' after death

It doesn't in the context he is saying.
It is a deep/complicated subject, because, it is dependent on individuals, saved or unsaved, and the span of time between living on earth, and Judgement day, 1,000 yr reign, bodies dying, so just saying there are multiple applications depending on many factors.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

Would address each thing....
"Living" "soul".
Agree the LIFE is "out from God".
The "soul" is an unseen thing, that God has made.



It doesn't in the context he is saying.
It is a deep/complicated subject, because, it is dependent on individuals, saved or unsaved, and the span of time between living on earth, and Judgement day, 1,000 yr reign, bodies dying, so just saying there are multiply applications depending on many factors.

God Bless,
Taken

Obviously too complicated for me!!
I don't 'think' that deeply these days

I am just a simple thinker.

Bless you....H