Hell . . . The Good News.

[historyb]

I say God would have no problem taking away my allowance forever, however, if God tormented me for all of eternity, that would mean God is NOT Love and God is NOT full of Grace.

You and others who think like you have it all wrong. God is not torturing you, you are. God is love and He will not force anyone to go into His House when they will never ever love Him back, indeed it would quite unloving of God to force one into His house when that one hates Him. You will be outside but since God is everywhere so is His love and when you are His enemy His absolute love is what torments you, not God. As a sinner not saved you will always hate God and always be sent to Hell of your own accord. He gave His Son for all to accept or reject the sacrifice if that is not enough than nothing will be.

 

[kcnalp]

I say God would have no problem taking away my allowance forever, however, if God tormented me for all of eternity, that would mean God is NOT Love and God is NOT full of Grace.

God? Are you referring to God of the Bible Who drowned all but 8 "making them an example"?

 

[Waiting on him]

Hi Devin. Thanks for visiting and commenting.

Let's begin with this verse...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

Since I take the above verse literally, as I believe everyone should, then what the Word of God is teaching us here is that the Lowest Parts of the Earth is where you, I, and all babies come from.

In other words, Hell is a parable for the place in which we all were born out of.

Jesus confirms this...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

Again, this is literal. 'Child of Hell' means exactly that. Hell is a place where babies are born out of.

Hell, or in the original Greek, 'Gehenna' is of course the Old Testament Valley of the Son of Hinnom...

Jeremiah 32:35
"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

Gehenna is where the concept of the Lake of Fire comes from. Notice that the Children *PASS THROUGH* the fire? This is teaching us that those tossed into the Lake of Fire actually pass through it. They do not 'burn forever' or become 'annihilated'. There is another destination waiting for them.

This brings us to...

Jonah 2:2
"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice."

Again, we see that the Belly is associated with Hell. The Whale is a picture of the Lowest Parts of the Earth. We know from Matthew 23:15 that the Lowest Parts of the Earth... aka... Hell, is where babies come from. Therefore, the Whale is a picture of pregnancy. Jonah is the Seed inside. Note that Moloch and the Whale share a similar theme.

Long story short, Jonah is a picture of One who is thrown into the Lake of Fire and eventually vomited, or birthed, into this world. Jonah gets a 'Second Chance'...

Our God is a God of Second Chances.

Your argument is futile, concerning most here believe they were spilled fro

Sadly, because the Church has taken the position to lie to everyone about what the Lowest Parts of the Earth means, they have to create more and more lies to cover it all up. It is a tangled web they have woven.

Here is an example...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Because we know that the Lowest Parts of the Earth is where babies come from, we know that Jesus first descended into the Womb of Mary to become born into this world...

Ephesians 4:10
"He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things."

In other words, Jesus descended *FIRST* and then ascended after death. Not the other way around!

Look...

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Again, Jesus descends *first*.

So what does the Church teach? That Jesus went to Hell to 'release prisoners from Abraham's Bosom' or other nonsense. Some even go as far as to say Jesus suffered and burned in Torments!

worst yet, many teach we come spilling forth from the womb receiving the breath of life.

 

[Waiting on him]

Guess you didn't read this:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Day and night implies a solar cycle.

 

[Waiting on him]

Is there a tree of life in hell?

 

[kcnalp]

Day and night implies a solar cycle.

"forever and ever"

 

[charity]

-
According to Psalms 139:15, Matthew 23:15, and Jonah 2:2 everyone will
eventually make it to safety when they pass on.

'My substance was not hid from thee,
when I was made in secret,
and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.'
(Psalm 139:15)

'And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction
unto the LORD, and He heard me;
out of the belly of hell cried I,
and Thou heardest my voice.'
(Jonah 2:2)

'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte,
and when he is made,
ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.'
(Matthew 23:15)

Hello @Base12,

Are you sure you were not intending to quote Psalm 139:8, and not v.15, because at least that has the word, 'hell' within it.

'If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there.'
(Psalm139:8)

* The Hebrew word translated, 'hell', in Psalm 139:8 and in Jonah 2:2. is 'Sheol' or 'Hades', which refers to the place of the dead, or the grave.
* Jonah was in the place of the dead (Sheol) inside the belly of the whale, for all within it would be consumed.
* In Matthew 23:15, the Greek word translated, 'hell' is 'Gehenna', which refers to the fire of end-time judgement.

* Regarding Psalm 138:15 that you refer to, it has a context, which should be included in your consideration, David prayed to God:-

'For Thou hast possessed my reins:
Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
I will praise Thee;
.. for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:
.... marvellous are Thy works;
...... and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee,
.. when I was made in secret,
.... and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect;
.. and in thy book all my members were written,
.... which in continuance were fashioned,
...... as yet there was none of them.'
(Psalm 139:13-16)

* Looking back at God's works ( I believe it possible that) David was looking back beyond the womb to the time when God in His foreknowledge knew David, though afar off in terms of time, when David did not yet have substance: when he (in Adam) had yet to be 'fashioned' or formed from the earth. and (in Adam) have the breath of life breathed into him and become a living soul. This, David in awe and wonder acknowledges, to the glory of God's omniscience.

Praise God!

* As you can see I do not share your thinking in regard to these verses.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

'My substance was not hid from thee,
when I was made in secret,
and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.'
(Psalm 139:15)

'And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction
unto the LORD, and He heard me;
out of the belly of hell cried I,
and Thou heardest my voice.'
(Jonah 2:2)

'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte,
and when he is made,
ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.'
(Matthew 23:15)

Hello @Base12,

Are you sure you were not intending to quote Psalm 139:8, and not v.15, because at least that has the word, 'hell' within it.

'If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there.'
(Psalm139:8)

* The Hebrew word translated, 'hell', in Psalm 139:8 and in Jonah 2:2. is 'Sheol' or 'Hades', which refers to the place of the dead, or the grave.
* Jonah was in the place of the dead (Sheol) inside the belly of the whale, for all within it would be consumed.
* In Matthew 23:15, the Greek word translated, 'hell' is 'Gehenna', which refers to the fire of end-time judgement.
* Psalm 138:15 that you refer to has a context, which should be included in your consideration, David prayed to God:-

'For Thou hast possessed my reins:
Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
I will praise Thee;
.. for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:
.... marvellous are Thy works;
...... and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee,
.. when I was made in secret,
.... and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect;
.. and in thy book all my members were written,
.... which in continuance were fashioned,
...... as yet there was none of them.'
(Psalm 139:13-16)

* Looking back at God's works ( I believe it possible that) David was looking back beyond the womb to the time when God in His foreknowledge knew David, though afar off in terms of time; when David did not yet have substance: when he (in Adam) had yet to be 'fashioned' or formed from the earth. and (in Adam) have the breath of life breathed into him and become a living soul. This David in awe and wonder acknowledges, to the glory of God's omniscience.

Praise God!

* As you can see I do not share your thinking in regard to these verses.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Did you know that some people refer to the psalms as the messianic psalms?

 

[Renniks]

Hell is simply the grave or world of the dead. Every one will make it out of hell.

The righteous dead that were in hell (Abrahams Bosom) have since gone ot heaven.

Only Jesus explained that there was Abraham's bosom and hades and they were not the same place.

 

[Waiting on him]

As I stated many believe God formed them in the womb. I can only assume they also attribute all the many hideous birth defects to Him as well.
And He breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Ghost.
In Him is life.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is a Cycle that is implied in Scripture that most do not see. Not everyone makes it the first go around...

Ecclesiastes 1:9
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

Oh my , please tell me you do not believe in reincarnation .
My friend that is deadly and dangerous .
it is appointed unto man to live once , then after that cometh the judgment . NO hindu , budda or nirvana .
Please tell me , you DO NOT believe in that .

 

[amigo de christo]

What is there to comment on? The verses have nothing to do with the title of the OP. The false doctrine of a second chance after we die, like with Universalism or Purgatory attracts those with itching ears, but if they don't make a decision now, and endure to the end and die righteous or holy, they will not see heaven.

THANK you dear sister for standing for the truth .

 

[Taken]

Base12-

Disagree with your interpretations-

 

[Truther]

Yes.

Then party hearty!

 

[charity]

Did you know that some people refer to the psalms as the messianic psalms?

Hi @Waiting on him,

I know that many of the Psalms are Messianic, yes, but not all.
Is there a reason why you ask me this in relation to the subject matter of this thread?

 

[amadeus]

Not after we are dead...

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Heb 9:27

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Only Jesus explained that there was Abraham's bosom and hades and they were not the same place.

Well you must understand what is being said, in the time and culture of where it is being said!

Hades/sheol/hell are all terms for the grave and place of the dead.

Hell is not the place of eternal torment. the lake of fire is!

The righteous up to the time of Jesus' ascension, when they died were carried away to Abrahams bosom/paradise in the place of the dead. the body went into the ground, but the soul either went to paradise or the place of torments. The angels who had sex with women in Genesis 6 went to the place called tartarus. These are all compartments of the place of the dead or hell/sheol/hades. This was and still is the understanding of nearly all followers of the true God and Jesus!

 

[dev553344]

The angels who had sex with women in Genesis 6 went to the place called tartarus.

Angels never had sex with women, you mis-interpeted the scriptures. I've heard a lot of different people claiming this. It is a common mis-conception as is that giants actually inhabited the earth.

All it says is that the Sons of God mated with the daughters of men, this is simply a form that the righteous men of God took on them women from the unrighteous.

Giants were great men, and the bible actually says that. They weren't large men, they were just great.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Sadly, because the Church has taken the position to lie to everyone about what the Lowest Parts of the Earth means, they have to create more and more lies to cover it all up. It is a tangled web they have woven.

And if the "earth" is simply the little piece of flesh in which each of us already dwells, rather than the planet men have named, Earth? People in churches as well as people not in them have undoubtedly taken positions on some things which are in error. When and where they have even if unintentional they certainly are liars as is every man walking in his own ways in any measure.

Your position is right according to you. Should not we all be seeking His Kingdom and His righteousness so that we can be rightly directed? Why would insist that you alone are correct on these points? Because of your interpretation of scripture?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts" Prov 21:2

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Here is an example...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Those words speak of Jesus, I believe. Do they not go along with and support these words?

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

Is not the flesh the earth... that is "the dust of the ground"?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

Because we know that the Lowest Parts of the Earth is where babies come from, we know that Jesus first descended into the Womb of Mary to become born into this world...

The natural mother of every child also consist of flesh or dirt or earth and therefore each child so born does come from that little bit of earth.

Ephesians 4:10
"He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things."

In other words, Jesus descended *FIRST* and then ascended after death. Not the other way around!

Yes, Jesus came down to our level, the level of dead sinful men whose first natural parents gave up the Life, which was available to them when they ate first of the wrong tree and access to the other tree, the Tree of Life, was removed until Jesus came. Jesus came to give us our first opportunity to obtain that Life. We were born dead with no Hope until God sent to us His Son.

Look...

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Again, Jesus descends *first*.

So what does the Church teach? That Jesus went to Hell to 'release prisoners from Abraham's Bosom' or other nonsense. Some even go as far as to say Jesus suffered and burned in Torments!

And if that teaching is in error, why is what you teach or what I might teach not also in error? Have we already overcome the world of temptations in ourselves as Jesus did? He left that world before he was crucified, before he died? Have we?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Jesus overcame the world:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

And did not Jesus make it possible for us to also overcome the world of our own temptations within and by our own flesh?

Have we all done it yet? You want everyone to have multiple chances, but we do... during our one allotted period of time during our course given to each of us here and now. It is not a good idea to backslide and repent again, but people do it. People have done it! Thank you dear Lord!

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Now you can read through what I have written here and say that I am also wrong. I do not claim infallibility, but I do strive to always follow One who is infallible. When I am not stumbling or quenching His Spirit in me, then I by the Holy Spirit in me am infallible. My overcoming process is underway and continuing...! Yours?

 

[Renniks]

Hell is not the place of eternal torment. the lake of fire is!

Not eternal torment, but torment nonetheless. A person in hades eventually gets cast into the lake of fire. Unless the annilists are right, that's no improvement.