Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[St. SteVen]

We can see in these passages that death feeds permanently or forever on those who are cast into "hell":

Who created hell?
What sort of being would conceive of such a thing?

You'll probably blame the victims.

Should a finite crime receive an eternal punishment?
Is that justice? Even humans wouldn't do such a thing.

You'll probably say we can't prevent him from doing this.
Like a cosmic playground bully.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Hell, sheol, Hades etc......is a term for death, or the place where the dead go.....

Right. The realm of the dead. (in the heart of the earth)

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,
to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that,
though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

What would you think of a human that fit that characteristic? Good person, or bad person?

/

Quite a few people are saying that hell isn't forever, that souls in hell are redeemed at some point........so I seek the Lord for the truth, putting my druthers on the altar and retaining no vested interest in the answer........if anything I would rather believe what they are saying, all the more since I have loved ones who don't know the Lord. He keeps me wrestling half the night and the answer comes in the morning.....those verses that I brought. So instead of vain reasonings of man......shouldn't we look at God's word on the subject?

What does being cast into hell fire where their worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched mean? I had to ponder and meditate on it until the Lord gave me the meaning.....it means that death feeds on them forever......in other words it is a way of saying there is no coming back from that fire.....it is final and permanent. If you or anyone have another meaning then let's hear it and test it. Don't come back with vain questions.....but with an answer.

It is called eternal fire in v. 8 of Matt. 18.........and if eternal fire doesnt' mean eternal , then eternal life isn't eternal either.....because the same Greek word aionios is used for both.

 

[Lizbeth]

Who created hell?
What sort of being would conceive of such a thing?

You'll probably blame the victims.

Should a finite crime receive an eternal punishment?
Is that justice? Even humans wouldn't do such a thing.

You'll probably say we can't prevent him from doing this.
Like a cosmic playground bully.

/

Our God IS a consuming fire. Nothing that is temporal can stand in His presence. No man can "see" God in all His glory and live. That is why we need to be "in" Christ an "of" Him, His Spirit, in order to be able to withstand and not be consumed by it/Him/His fire. Sheltered in the cleft of the Rock.......those who are not sheltered in Christ will be consumed because that is what God IS. The coming of Christ in ALL His unrestrained and unveiled glory and wrath will just burn everything up that is not "of" Him. See 2 Peter 3.

The issue that I seem to see in scripture is either receive eternal life through Christ, or retain one's mortality and die like the beasts. At this point I believe hell means to be destroyed for eternity, ie, permanently, not tormented forever. Though I'm open to being corrected......I find it hard to grasp and understand things that occur outside the realm of time.

 

[Lizbeth]

Right. The realm of the dead. (in the heart of the earth)

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,
to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that,
though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

/

So you're saying that hell just means the grave? No, rather the grave is often used as an allegory for hell. That is clear because while not everyone is cast into hell, all will die in the grave. The body (of everyone) is destroyed in the grave, but I believe the "second" death is about destruction of the soul.

 

[amigo de christo]

Quite a few people are saying that hell isn't forever, that souls in hell are redeemed at some point........so I seek the Lord for the truth, putting my druthers on the altar and retaining no vested interest in the answer........if anything I would rather believe what they are saying, all the more since I have loved ones who don't know the Lord. He keeps me wrestling half the night and the answer comes in the morning.....those verses that I brought. So instead of vain reasonings of man......shouldn't we look at God's word on the subject?

What does being cast into hell fire where their worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched mean? I had to ponder and meditate on it until the Lord gave me the meaning.....it means that death feeds on them forever......in other words it is a way of saying there is no coming back from that fire.....it is final and permanent. If you or anyone have another meaning then let's hear it and test it. Don't come back with vain questions.....but with an answer.

It is called eternal fire in v. 8 of Matt. 18.........and if eternal fire doesnt' mean eternal , then eternal life isn't eternal either.....because the same Greek word aionios is used for both.

There is much indeed that we do not know
but what was written was for us to KNOW .
and this i do know . ETERNAL LIFE IS FOUND IN CHRIST ALONE and that all who deny Him
will face the second death lake of fire .
Now let me bring up another point .
IF we read in revelation it tells us this as well . It speaks of the lake of fire
and it says exactly WHO ends up there .
AND it never once makes a mention that ANYONE GETS OUT .
AND now let us look at the DIRE warning of said book . LET NO MAN ADD TOO OR TAKE FROM .
My advice is we simply preach JESUS CHRIST is the only NAME whereby one may be saved
and that all who do deny him , all unbelievers , abominable , all who loved a lie WILL GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE .
and that place is NO PLACE any would ever want to be . Just keep it short and simple .
Yet many try to ADD TOO and take from that book, specially concerning the LAKE of fire .
THAT IS NOT GOOD at all . ALL i ever read about the lake of fire
is torment and suffering upon all and unto all who do enter ,
where the worm dies not . Eternal means eternal as you well said .
And i suggest if we want folks saved then let us simply speak the truth of the gospel
and use all sound doctrine as reminders .
Let us not do as the many who offer up a false hope , and try and change things
in order to make GOD seem loving . Let us not be as the many
who are omitting and or adding too that book in order to try and make GOD seem loving .
Because if they cease not , if the continue to twist , add too and take from
well the lake of fire will be their end . I Shall add upon him the plagues that are written IN THIS BOOK
HIS NAME shall NOT be in the BOOK OF LIFE . if anyones name aint in the book of life
WHERE DOES IT SAY THEY END UP AGAIN . ever wonder what it means
to TWIST SCRIPTURE UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION . notice it says UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION .
SO i suggest we just keep it simple and just tell it like it was said IN THE BIBLE .

 

[amigo de christo]

So you're saying that hell just means the grave? No, rather the grave is often used as an allegory for hell. That is clear because while not everyone is cast into hell, all will die in the grave. The body (of everyone) is destroyed in the grave, but I believe the "second" death is about destruction of the soul.

Many have come to teach and to preach another version of what they believe to be GOD and Love .
And as such they are removing the SERVERITY and thus preach another goodness as well .
i mean even their version of goodness now accepts certain sins and other paths .
Paul was wise when he wrote and said BEHOLD BOTH , not just one , but BOTH THE GOODNESS and SEVERITY OF GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Our God IS a consuming fire. Nothing that is temporal can stand in His presence. No man can "see" God in all His glory and live. That is why we need to be "in" Christ an "of" Him, His Spirit, in order to be able to withstand and not be consumed by it/Him/His fire. Sheltered in the cleft of the Rock.......those who are not sheltered in Christ will be consumed because that is what God IS. The coming of Christ in ALL His unrestrained and unveiled glory and wrath will just burn everything up that is not "of" Him. See 2 Peter 3.

The issue that I seem to see in scripture is either receive eternal life through Christ, or retain one's mortality and die like the beasts. At this point I believe hell means to be destroyed for eternity, ie, permanently, not tormented forever. Though I'm open to being corrected......I find it hard to grasp and understand things that occur outside the realm of time.

all we need to know is this . WHO wants to end up in the lake of fire
and WHO wants to end up forever WITH CHRIST JESUS .
THERE will only be one end unto the true believer and one end unto those who denied CHRIST JESUS .
ETERNAL LIFE unto all who did recieve HIM
ETERNAL DAMANATION unto all who did reject HIM . that is bout all i need to know .
I see the GOODNESS OF GOD , JESUS CHRIST THE GOSPEL
THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE , TO BELIEVE ON GOD on CHRIST JESUS WHOM HE DID SEND . THAT IS ETERNAL LIFE .
as was well written long ago .
THIS is eternal damnation , TO DENY HIM , TO DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST . simple enough .

 

[amigo de christo]

The GOODNESS OF GOD is CHRIST JESUS , IS THE GOSPEL
the SEVERITY OF GOD is unto all who DENIED HIM , all who followed another jesus , another gospel
IT was written long ago that JESUS did many other miracles in the sight of his apostels which were not all written down
BUT THESE WERE WRITTEN DOWN so that YOU MIGHT BELIEVE and that BELIEVING YOU SHALL HAVE LIFE ETERNAL .
the apostels nor any other EVER ONCE gave out false hope , ONLY TRUE HOPE
ONLY reminding and telling all about the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
i suggest we all do the same . and yes they did shake their feet off as a testimony against
all who rejected HIM and would not recieve that beatufil gospel message .
AND WHY DID they shake the dust off their feet .
what did that mean .
THIS .
IF any will not recieve you , the message of JESUS CHRIST
you will shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them , EVEN the very dusts of your streets we do wipe off .
AND WHY was that . CAUSE IT WILL BE FAR WORSE for those who did such a thing
than ever it was for even SODOM on the day of judgement . NOW THAT SOUNDS VERY VERY SERIOUS INDEED .
Thus its time we fled the social incluisive gospel lie and start again PREACHING ON THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON
JESUS the CHRIST . cause no matter how many loved this huge lie that said all religoins and etc are fine
and no need to believe on JESUS to be saved , WELL go to and behold what occurs to those who MADE
and LOVED A LIE . THE LAKE OF FIRE DOES .

 

[St. SteVen]

Quite a few people are saying that hell isn't forever, that souls in hell are redeemed at some point........so I seek the Lord for the truth, putting my druthers on the altar and retaining no vested interest in the answer........if anything I would rather believe what they are saying, all the more since I have loved ones who don't know the Lord. He keeps me wrestling half the night and the answer comes in the morning.....those verses that I brought. So instead of vain reasonings of man......shouldn't we look at God's word on the subject?

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. Unfortunately...
You played "the God Card". (hoping to end all discussion) ???
And in the next paragraph you ask for answers.
If you feel that you have the answer already from God,
what could I possibly say to top that? Are we not done here?

What does being cast into hell fire where their worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched mean? I had to ponder and meditate on it until the Lord gave me the meaning.....it means that death feeds on them forever......in other words it is a way of saying there is no coming back from that fire.....it is final and permanent. If you or anyone have another meaning then let's hear it and test it. Don't come back with vain questions.....but with an answer.

Eternal is the quality of the fire, not the duration of burning. God fire.
The worms are feeding on the wood, hay and stubble. (to put it in understandable terms)
The stuff we are plagued by as humans. The fire is restorative, not punitive.

I like this rendering of a "refiner’s fire" and "a launderer’s soap."
Purification and cleansing. What is the fire burning? What is the soap cleansing?

Malachi 3:2 NET
Who can endure the day of his coming? Who can keep standing when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire,[a] like a launderer’s soap.

It is called eternal fire in v. 8 of Matt. 18.........and if eternal fire doesnt' mean eternal , then eternal life isn't eternal either.....because the same Greek word aionios is used for both.

That's a great question! Thanks.
I wrestled with this as well. I'm glad you are thinking this through.

The good news is that one age is followed by the next. (into eternity)
Ages are significant. We have experienced our own ages here on earth.
The Stone Age, the Iron Age, the Bronze age, the Space age... (on and on it goes...)

Ephesians 2:4-9 NET
But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us,
5 even though we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved![a]—
6 and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 to demonstrate in the coming ages[b] the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward[c] us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you are saved[d] through faith,[e] and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from[f] works, so that no one can boast.[g]

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Our God IS a consuming fire. Nothing that is temporal can stand in His presence. No man can "see" God in all His glory and live. That is why we need to be "in" Christ an "of" Him, His Spirit, in order to be able to withstand and not be consumed by it/Him/His fire. Sheltered in the cleft of the Rock.......those who are not sheltered in Christ will be consumed because that is what God IS. The coming of Christ in ALL His unrestrained and unveiled glory and wrath will just burn everything up that is not "of" Him. See 2 Peter 3.

That's a common view of which I am familiar.
I was reminded of the conversation between Philip and Jesus.

John 14:8-10 NET
Philip said,[a] “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.”[b]
9 Jesus replied,[c] “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known[d] me, Philip?
The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?[e]
The words that I say to you, I do not speak on my own initiative,[f]
but the Father residing in me performs[g] his miraculous deeds.[h]

The issue that I seem to see in scripture is either receive eternal life through Christ, or retain one's mortality and die like the beasts. At this point I believe hell means to be destroyed for eternity, ie, permanently, not tormented forever. Though I'm open to being corrected......I find it hard to grasp and understand things that occur outside the realm of time.

That's a common view of which I am familiar.
You have concluded that Annihilation is the judgment on the wicked. (one of three views)
There is biblical support for all three views.

Glad to see that you have abandoned Eternal Conscious Torment.
But you do realize that Annihilationism is the gateway drug to full-blown Universalism, right? - LOL

So, what became of "eternal fire" and "the worm that does not die"?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

So you're saying that hell just means the grave? No, rather the grave is often used as an allegory for hell. That is clear because while not everyone is cast into hell, all will die in the grave. The body (of everyone) is destroyed in the grave, but I believe the "second" death is about destruction of the soul.

Some of these terms are interchangeable.
The Creed says that Jesus descended into hell. (Sheol, the Grave, the Realm of the Dead = Hell)

Body, soul, and spirit.
Destroy body and soul. What remains? (spirit)

Are we going to a soulish realm or a spiritual realm? (spiritual)

Every tribe, tongue, and nation. (in white robes)

Revelation 7:9-10 ESV
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number,
from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages,
standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes,
with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God
who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

/

 

[Lizbeth]

There is much indeed that we do not know
but what was written was for us to KNOW .
and this i do know . ETERNAL LIFE IS FOUND IN CHRIST ALONE and that all who deny Him
will face the second death lake of fire .
Now let me bring up another point .
IF we read in revelation it tells us this as well . It speaks of the lake of fire
and it says exactly WHO ends up there .
AND it never once makes a mention that ANYONE GETS OUT .
AND now let us look at the DIRE warning of said book . LET NO MAN ADD TOO OR TAKE FROM .
My advice is we simply preach JESUS CHRIST is the only NAME whereby one may be saved
and that all who do deny him , all unbelievers , abominable , all who loved a lie WILL GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE .
and that place is NO PLACE any would ever want to be . Just keep it short and simple .
Yet many try to ADD TOO and take from that book, specially concerning the LAKE of fire .
THAT IS NOT GOOD at all . ALL i ever read about the lake of fire
is torment and suffering upon all and unto all who do enter ,
where the worm dies not . Eternal means eternal as you well said .
And i suggest if we want folks saved then let us simply speak the truth of the gospel
and use all sound doctrine as reminders .
Let us not do as the many who offer up a false hope , and try and change things
in order to make GOD seem loving . Let us not be as the many
who are omitting and or adding too that book in order to try and make GOD seem loving .
Because if they cease not , if the continue to twist , add too and take from
well the lake of fire will be their end . I Shall add upon him the plagues that are written IN THIS BOOK
HIS NAME shall NOT be in the BOOK OF LIFE . if anyones name aint in the book of life
WHERE DOES IT SAY THEY END UP AGAIN . ever wonder what it means
to TWIST SCRIPTURE UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION . notice it says UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION .
SO i suggest we just keep it simple and just tell it like it was said IN THE BIBLE .

Amen. Should be clear to anyone with Grade One reading skills that the lake of fire and "hell" is portrayed as something dire, and to be avoided at any cost. Teachings that send the message to people that it's not dangerous to play Russian roulette with their salvation have to come into question, as opposed to encouraging us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Lizbeth]

Some of these terms are interchangeable.
The Creed says that Jesus descended into hell. (Sheol, the Grave, the Realm of the Dead = Hell)

Body, soul, and spirit.
Destroy body and soul. What remains? (spirit)

Are we going to a soulish realm or a spiritual realm? (spiritual)

Every tribe, tongue, and nation. (in white robes)

Revelation 7:9-10 ESV
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number,
from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages,
standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes,
with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God
who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

/

The reason that believers will receive an immortal spiritual body is to provide a "house" and covering for the soul....because the soul needs it to live....eternal life. Soul is what makes us, us.

 

[Lizbeth]

Some of these terms are interchangeable.
The Creed says that Jesus descended into hell. (Sheol, the Grave, the Realm of the Dead = Hell)

Some of them are allegorical as well. The grave, physical death.....destruction of the body and the permanency of it....gives us a picture of what will happen to the soul and I believe is certainly part of creation telling the story (that mankind is without excuse).

The lake of fire/second death hadn't been applied yet, when Jesus when to the realm of the dead to preach the gospel to those who were going to be saved through it....these were the faithful saints from before the gospel was revealed and who were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected. (which I believe is the first resurrection, that believers of this age will also have a "part" in.)

 

[amigo de christo]

many have come and work behind the scenes to convince others
against some on this site . beware them . If a man cannot overcome what another man says
and yet sneaks about in the dark and private messages behind ones back to others . IT JUST SHOWS they are a failure
and cannot overcome what the man is saying but will do all to make him appear as evil and wrong behind the scenes .
Now beware cause many do this . but remember
if any does come to you in the dark , you tell them , you remind them
lets take to this to the one you are talking about and lets all discuss it . DO NOT ENTERTAIN division
you face the person being accused , you do all to try and help them but dont heed whisperers in the dark who come
to pit and to divide .

 

[Lizbeth]

That's a common view of which I am familiar.
I was reminded of the conversation between Philip and Jesus.

John 14:8-10 NET
Philip said,[a] “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.”[b]
9 Jesus replied,[c] “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known[d] me, Philip?
The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?[e]
The words that I say to you, I do not speak on my own initiative,[f]
but the Father residing in me performs[g] his miraculous deeds.[h]


That's a common view of which I am familiar.
You have concluded that Annihilation is the judgment on the wicked. (one of three views)
There is biblical support for all three views.

Glad to see that you have abandoned Eternal Conscious Torment.
But you do realize that Annihilationism is the gateway drug to full-blown Universalism, right? - LOL

So, what became of "eternal fire" and "the worm that does not die"?

/

These are allegories, not literal. As I said the picture I get from it, is that of permanence, ie, no coming back from the second death/lake of fire. It tells me that death of the soul will be permanent. Death will feed forever on those souls, allegorically. If you have another interpretation, let's hear it.

I think of the Lord God Almighty as being a great King who holds the power of BOTH life and death, therefore He is worthy to be feared/revered. Death is the opposite of life....salvation comes with conditions - faith in and following the Lamb.....those not in the Lamb's Book of LIFE will experience the second DEATH, death of the soul as I believe.

When we're infants and toddlers we know nothing about what our Father does for a living, and the power He has, we just think He is this jolly fellow who bounces us on His knees and keeps monsters away. But when we begin maturing and begin eating the meat of the word, and begin experiencing His discipline as well, we start to realize just WHO He is and how worthy He is of our reverence, and it makes us more grave and serious about our faith. When you're a grown up you lose the pleasant illusions of youth and take "life" more seriously. I've observed that fear/reverence of the Lord is a key to having prayers answered as well.....giving Him what is due Him (in sincerity), attracts His favour. And the scriptures don't have good things to say about treating Him lightly. The image of the Bride in scripture is that of a grown up woman ready for marriage, not a child.....we want to be ready for His appearing, not still playing in the sandbox, streaked with mud and wearing pigtails. A wife should reverence her husband.

 

[St. SteVen]

These are allegories, not literal.

So... Jesus was criticizing Phillip over an allegory?
John chapter one tells us that the Word was God and that the Word became flesh.
Word > God > Jesus --- Allegory?

John 14:8-10 NET
Philip said,[a] “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.”[b]
9 Jesus replied,[c] “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known[d] me, Philip?
The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?[e]
The words that I say to you, I do not speak on my own initiative,[f]
but the Father residing in me performs[g] his miraculous deeds.[h]

As I said the picture I get from it, is that of permanence, ie, no coming back from the second death/lake of fire. It tells me that death of the soul will be permanent. Death will feed forever on those souls, allegorically. If you have another interpretation, let's hear it.

The Age of Restoration is just that.
Similar to a renovation project on a home. Imagine a new kitchen.
Demolition removes the old so the new can be constructed in its place.

I think of the Lord God Almighty as being a great King who holds the power of BOTH life and death, therefore He is worthy to be feared/revered. Death is the opposite of life....salvation comes with conditions - faith in and following the Lamb.....those not in the Lamb's Book of LIFE will experience the second DEATH, death of the soul as I believe.

Is that what God is about? Seems rather pathetic.

When we're infants and toddlers we know nothing about what our Father does for a living, and the power He has, we just think He is this jolly fellow who bounces us on His knees and keeps monsters away. But when we begin maturing and begin eating the meat of the word, and begin experiencing His discipline as well, we start to realize just WHO He is and how worthy He is of our reverence, and it makes us more grave and serious about our faith.

Wow. Life is Candyland until you find out Daddy works at a slaughterhouse?

When you're a grown up you lose the pleasant illusions of youth and take "life" more seriously. I've observed that fear/reverence of the Lord is a key to having prayers answered as well.....giving Him what is due Him (in sincerity), attracts His favour. And the scriptures don't have good things to say about treating Him lightly. The image of the Bride in scripture is that of a grown up woman ready for marriage, not a child.....we want to be ready for His appearing, not still playing in the sandbox, streaked with mud and wearing pigtails. A wife should reverence her husband.

God won't answer your prayers unless you are terrified of him? Wow.
And he has anger management problems? Is that what God is about?
Why would you want to have anything to do with him?

Can you sell me on a relationship with the monster you have created?
I mean, other than the threats to my well-being if I don't grovel at his feet. ???

/

 

[Lizbeth]

So... Jesus was criticizing Phillip over an allegory?

Eternal fire and the worm that doesn't die are allegorical. And you still haven't said how you interpret those passages.

As to the rest of your post, well, you are seeing things from a fleshly and man-centred point of view.

A lot of the questions you ask actually amounts to sitting in judgment on the Lord God Almighty. Not a good place to be at. As the scripture says, He has created some for noble purposes and others for base purposes and who is anyone to talk back to God?

 

[St. SteVen]

Eternal fire and the worm that doesn't die are allegorical. And you still haven't said how you interpret those passages.

Where is the danger if they are merely allegorical? I thought you took them literally. ???

As to the rest of your post, well, you are seeing things from a fleshly and man-centred point of view.

You seem to think that God operates under a LOWER set of morals and ethics than he holds us to. ???

A lot of the questions you ask actually amounts to sitting in judgment on the Lord God Almighty. Not a good place to be at. As the scripture says, He has created some for noble purposes and others for base purposes and who is anyone to talk back to God?

Did God create you for noble purposes, or for base purposes?

/