Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[St. SteVen]

This world, this world system is the only Hell that a born again believer, will ever know and experience.

And for the unbeliever, this world is as close to Heaven, as they will ever get.

What do you imagine this process will be like? (especially verse 15)

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NRSVue
Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
13 the work of each builder will become visible, for the day[a] will disclose it,
because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done.
14 If the work that someone has built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a wage.
15 If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

/

 

[Behold]

15 If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

There are "crowns" and "rewards" given in Heaven, that are related to the service we present to God, as our "present your body as a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable SERVICE"..

Paul said "i have finished my course" and there is laid up for me a CROWN........""" 2 Tim 4.

This is related to Colossians 1:23 that says if you continue in the faith grounded and unmoved.

So, Heretics teach the "grounded and unmoved" as ... "and if you are moved then you lost your salvation">.

But that verse is connected to "finishing your course" perfectly, having never become backsliddent= or "dead faith and thus "the Crown",...

That's the hardest of all to achieve..

And THOSE are related to the "Judgement seat of Christ" or the "bema" Seat, that is not a judgement against your sin, as that has been judged against CHRIST on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago..

So, the BORN AGAIN, will meet Jesus at the "judgement seat", and that is a reward's situation..

And Jesus will evaluate our works that we have committed "in the Body".... .. in other words.. all those things we've done, as Believers, for God and Christ... will be evaluated......but not regarding the actual deed, but regarding the HEART MOTIVE that produced the deed.

For example, ive written hundreds of THREADs on this forum and on others, and so, was my MOTIVE for doing all this "work"... a pure heart, or was it "look at me, give me attention".

So, regarding my "service" Jesus will evaluate all ive done for Him "In the body" (Of Christ) and those works that are "self centered" will burn as "wood , hay, stubble" and those that ive committed to God with the RIGHT HEART MOTIVE, will be rewarded, (symbolically) as "precious stones, silver, gold."

One thing i can tell you, is that ive never posted a post, and that is easily 200,000 + on Forums over the years.. that even once suggested that Salvation is not wholly and totally based on the Cross of Christ, as Jonn 14:6

Ive never posted a Thread or a Post where i tried to cast DOUBT on God's word, or imply that the bible is not Trustworthy.

So, these type things, are all about the HEART in the person posting.. .and in that case, my Threads and my Posts, always gave Jesus full credit for Salvation and the Holy Bible my full and utter respect.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What do you imagine this process will be like? (especially verse 15)

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NRSVue
Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
13 the work of each builder will become visible, for the day[a] will disclose it,
because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done.
14 If the work that someone has built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a wage.
15 If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

/

This is what is called the “bema” seat judgment, It will consist of believers only, who are ressurected By Christ.

their work will be judged, and the fruit of their labors will show. If they have not produced mch fruit. They will suffer loss. but as the passage says, they will still be saved.

This is apposed to the Great white throne in Revelations 20.

In this judgment, Death and hades are delivered to God.
They are put on trial, All their works are judged.
They are found guilty because the thing which could have saved them (Gods grace) was rejected.
They are cast into the lake of Fire. This is called the second death. And this spiritual death is eternal. There is no getting out of this judgment, this is the final judgment

It’s like this, everyone is on death row, we all have commited sins which bring about with it the penalty of death. And we all have a trial date with which we can present our case

One day we will face the judge, The issue is, Are we going to face him at the Bema Seat Because our penalty was paid in full By Christ on the cross (judged to Recieve rewards) or at the great white throne (judged to determine our guilt and plead our case) Because we have rejected the payment for our sins. (He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already)

Remember, Jesus said in that day, many will come pleading their case (Have I not done all these things in your name). And jesus will say depart from me for I never knew you.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Does he now?
Where did you hear that?

Jesus taught about hell, therefore it is Truth because all that Jesus taught about is Truth.

Hell is part of the gospel?
Like the bad news part of the good news?

Ye sit is because according to Jesus those that reject Him will be going there so hell is part of reality for mankind.

I believe in hell. EVERYONE is going there. Jesus said:

Mark 9:49 NRSVue
“For everyone will be salted with fire.

Enjoy your stay in hell then, I won't be in attendance.

Are you prepared to accept what that says about you?

I accept what the Lord teaches in His Word, so the opinions of those not going by God's Word are meaningless.

And where did you get this business about "being faithful to Him their entire lives"?

John 15:4,6
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 6:18
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

 

[Dan Clarkston]

This is related to Gal. 1:23 that says if you continue in the faith grounded and unmoved.

That is actually Colossians 1:22-23

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Behold]

That is actually Colossians 1:22-23

Thank your for reading so carefully.
I did transpose "Gal" for Col", ...

-edited.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Thank your for reading so carefully.
I did transpose "Gal" for Col", ...

-edited.

Didn't want them to claim the argument was not right just because a wrong scripture reference was accidentally was posted.

 

[Behold]

Didn't want them to claim the argument was not right just because a wrong scripture reference was accidentally was posted.

I appreciate it.

That same Gal verse is talking about Paul in Acts 15., where the Apostles who were afraid of Him, initially, ended up being taught by Him.

Nothing about the "judgement seat" in that verse.

 

[O'Darby]

Over the years I have noticed a shift away from the embarrassment of the hell doctrine.
It had always seemed like the "fly in the ointment" of Christianity to me.
But we had biblical evidence that it was sad, but true.

The solution was evangelism. We are in the business of "saving souls from hell." Err...
I mean "eternal separation from God." (whatever that means to you) ???

This task of world evangelism was completely overwhelming.
We had annual world missions conferences for fund raising.
We were sending and supporting missionaries at home and abroad.

Some were wanting to be good stewards of their giving by
demanding results, or channeling the funds toward "fruitful" ministries.
Which meant withdrawing support from any who seemed to not
measure up to their expectations. Made me wonder.

Here at home we were still expected to spread the good news.
But, an over-evangelized America was less than welcoming.
They hadn't forgotten the "hellfire and brimstone".

What's your take on all of this?



@Patrick1966 @Hillsage @Chadrho @FaithWillDo @Nancy @GRACE ambassador @quietthinker @Lambano

Fire and brimstone is fundamentally unbelievable, simple as that. Intelligent people simply cannot reconcile any notion of a Creator God with fiery eternal torment, particularly in light of the absurd inequities of this earthly life. The doctrine is intuitively, viscerally repulsive. Universalism, annihilation or separation are all less intuitively, viscerally repulsive. Fire and brimstone seems like, and I believe is, a relic of a more primitive culture and way of thinking.

I don't think the issue is any more complex than this. The mystery to me is what goes on inside the heads of those who insist they can reconcile fiery eternal torment with the notion of a Creator God - any Creator God, let alone the God of Christianity. I don't cate what the Bible says or Jesus reportedly said - the God of fiery eternal torment is simply not a God in whom I could believe, or in whom most people could believe, even if the doctrine were true. They know that THEY, and pretty much everyone else they know, is more loving, forgiving, merciful and compassionate than this supposed Creator God.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Fire and brimstone seems like, and I believe is, a relic of a more primitive culture and way of thinking

That's another way of saying man should not believe what God says in the Bible.

The spirit behind your statement is one of darkness because it opposes what the Lord says.

 

[O'Darby]

That's another way of saying man should not believe what God says in the Bible.

The spirit behind your statement is one of darkness because it opposes what the Lord says.

I'll drink to that!

(Inside joke.)

You might try educating yourself. For starters, see Heaven and Hell in Jewish Tradition | My Jewish Learning.

You have a simplistic, Bumper-Sticker "My Way or the Highway" understanding of almost every issue discussed on these forums.

Let's rephrase your post for the sake of accuracy:

That's another way of saying man should not believe what I THINK God says in the Bible.​

​

The spirit behind your statement is one of darkness because it opposes what I THINK the Lord says.​

 

[Behold]

Fire and brimstone is fundamentally unbelievable, simple as that. Intelligent people simply cannot reconcile any notion of a Creator God with fiery eternal torment,

@O'Darby .....What you mean is..

Carnally minded people who chase the 2nd Commandment, and never read the first one, can't conceive of God's Holiness.

They read that God flooded the world and they think...>"translation error".

They read, that God BURNED Homosexuality and sexual perversion into ash, in Genesis 19 and they think... "errors in the bible"..

These carnal "types", who come to forums and tell real believers they can't really "trust the bible, for the most part, except for what they chose to believe in it...... THEY see God as " only love", and never can understand that that same LOVE< sent His Son to be nailed to a TREE for SIN after they whipped the flesh off of Jesus that exposed His ribs and beat his face to the degree that He was "marred beyond recognition".
They didnt do that with whips... but elbows and fists and boot heels will get it done...

These "overly opinionated" ,, types have no real connection to the Crucifixion, and have no inkling regarding just how Seriously God views Righteousness, vs, Unrighteousness.

These same types, don't realize that Hell and the Lake of Fire, were created before God created Adam and Eve from Adam's rib.

And here is the main thing they dont understand....

Jesus said....>"YOU are of YOUR FATHER..... THE DEVIL, and the LUSTS of YOUR FATHER, you shall do".

Who is that one?

A.) Its every unbeliever......not born again and breathing on earth right now........and when they are born again, they CHANGE Spiritual Faither's .

This is why Jesus told YOU... "you must be born again"...

And once they are, they now have = "our Heavenly Father", and Heaven is now theirs, as well.

However, if they remains in "damnation".. = John 3:36, then they remain the spiritual progeny of """THEIR FATHER"", and "hell and the lake of Fire were created for the Devil, and his Angels".

So, the born again, = go to THEIR FATHER< once they DIE.

And the unbelievers, never born again, will go to THEIR Father when they DIE...., and that is HELL waiting for them, as it was originally created for Him., and they belong to "YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL". Jesus said to all unbelievers.


"well behold, i dont believe in Hell".

And a lot of people said that all their adult lives, and today many thousands of them, died and went to hell like a bullet, and they believe in it now.
Every single one is now a believer , in HELL.
They also believe in JESUS,..... right now, and forever,......they all have FAITH IN CHRIST in HELL.... and it does not help them, as you can't be born again in Hell.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You might try educating yourself.

I did from what the Lord has to say.

Jesus said hell is real and people going there suffer being tormented forever.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
And where did you get this business about "being faithful to Him their entire lives"?

John 15:4,6
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 6:18
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

So... you aren't saved?
Planning to wait and see?

/

 

[Dan Clarkston]

you aren't saved?

I have been born again and by the power of the Lord I will be abiding in Christ until the end of my days.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Hope you learn what God's Word actually teaches sooner rather than later.
Currently you way behind the 8 ball.

It's easy to tell where one is at by the bible verses they reject

 

[St. SteVen]

It's easy to tell where one is at by the bible verses they reject

That saw cuts both ways.

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

/

 

[Dan Clarkston]

That saw cuts both ways.

You should remember that!

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

No!

This is exactly how the devil has deceived so many Christian in to the falling away we see now in the end times.

Peer pressure.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

No!

This is exactly how the devil has deceived so many Christian in to the falling away we see now in the end times.

Peer pressure.

 

[St. SteVen]

No!

This is exactly how the devil has deceived so many Christian in to the falling away we see now in the end times.

Peer pressure.

So, you are apposed to the unity of the faith? (seems unbiblical) ???

Ephesians 4:11-13 NRSVue
He himself granted that some are apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
to maturity,[a] to the measure of the full stature of Christ.

/

 

[Dan Clarkston]

So, you are apposed to the unity of the faith? (seems unbiblical) ???

I'm opposed to false teachings.
These that don't believe and teach God's Word are not part of the faith of Jesus Christ.

Therefore they are not in unity with the Body of Christ and are nothing more that fake religious people that slapped the Name of Jesus on their social club in error since they are not walking with Jesus by accepting His teachings and what He taught thru the apostles.

You seem to be a representative of the ecumenical movement which bring all the false teachers and their followers together and they all claim to be the Body of Christ. These people are tares not wheat.

Those following the ecumenical movement believe anybody that claims to be a Christian is a part of the Body of Christ including all the cults out there like the catholics , jehovah witnesses, seventh day adventists, mormons, christian science, the way international, the unity cchool of christianity, etc