HELP, I'M A UNIVERSALIST - CAN SOMEONE BRING ME INTO THE FRESH WATERS OF 'ETERNAL DAMNATIONISM'?

[Available Light]

Yes, certainly. In my studies, I have found that the Greek phrase "all things" doesn't literally mean "all things everywhere and for all time."

Suppose a young woman wanted to bake a cake with her mother. Her mother decides help her gather all the ingredients together and teach her how to mix them and form them into the pan. During the process they discover that they lack a few ingredients called out in the recipe. Mom calls dad on the phone, reminding him to swing by the store and pick up the missing ingredients on his way home from work. Mother tells her daughter, "Dad will bring all things home after work and then we will finish our cake."

Mother isn't suggesting that Dad with bring home everything in the world; and neither is she suggesting that Dad will bring home every ingredient called out in the recipe. She simply wants her daughter to know that Dad will bring home "all things", that is "all the missing ingredients".

A perfect example of rationalizing away the WORD OF GOD -
How funny, a baking a cake analogy is used, without addressing the actual scriptures.

 

[Available Light]

OP. Not sure if you are still reading your thread, but I'll add some more info just in case.

As a Universalist, you are closer to the Truth than most. No one on this forum, as far as I know, understands what Hell and the Lake of Fire Truly is.

All I can do is point folks to the Door. They have to walk through. I can not do it for them.

Almost every time I post, it feels like a complete waste of time. Perhaps you feel the same? I am assuming you have been banned a few times, just for saying the word 'Universalist'. It brings out the hatred in so called 'Christians'.

That is another problem here and most other forums. Christians have no idea in the world what Love means. A God of Love does NOT torment the Unsaved for all of eternity, nor does a God of Love annihilate them. There is another option which the Word of God clearly teaches to those that have the backbone to accept it.

Satan has blinded the Church for thousands of years now. Who knows if Truth will ever prevail.

Good luck OP.

Great compliment. Kreisel understands Universalism and it's dynamics more than others know.

 

[Available Light]

A God of love will let Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot, Ghengis Khan, etc into heaven...no hard feelings?

Yup, and even you too.
Where do you limit the Love of God? -You'd be trying to limit Infinity.

 

[Available Light]

That's the only way it could possibly be if there is a Plan that belongs to God. Paul made this unbelievably clear in Ephesians chapters 2 and 3. Why we don't see it? Our pastors don't teach it, thus the "flock" has been plucked of the Core of the Entire Bible.

Amen to that! We're of the "very small remnant" - Isaiah 1:9
How do I contact you on this site. Did not figure that out yet.

 

[CadyandZoe]

A perfect example of rationalizing away the WORD OF GOD -
How funny, a baking a cake analogy is used, without addressing the actual scriptures.

Don't just give your answer. Show your work.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Amen to that! We're of the "very small remnant" - Isaiah 1:9
How do I contact you on this site? Did not figure that out yet.

You can send me a direct message. I'd like that. :)

 

[amadeus]

Amen to that! We're of the "very small remnant" - Isaiah 1:9
How do I contact you on this site. Did not figure that out yet.

Use the inbox at the upper right hand corner of screen to have a personal conversation with another member.

 

[Wrangler]

I'm waiting to know if he cares about the truth or not, all I see is confrontation.

Agreed. I hope to advance the conversation in a more congenial way. Biblical support for universalism is scant but not non-existent. Consider the idea that God does not want anyone to perish. What does this mean to you?

For universalists, like me, it means the will of God is all-important and if he will's it, it will be done. What then about the rest of the Bible and Jesus suffering on the cross? That, as they say, is a story for another thread.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Agreed. I hope to advance the conversation in a more congenial way. Biblical support for universalism is scant but not non-existent. Consider the idea that God does not want anyone to perish. What does this mean to you?

For universalists, like me, it means the will of God is all-important and if he will's it, it will be done. What then about the rest of the Bible and Jesus suffering on the cross? That, as they say, is a story for another thread.

IMHO...you are missing a very important key as to the purpose God created man....it has to so with the fall of Satan.
God had to restore everything that became affected in heaven during Satan's rebellion....
I will leave this for you to meditate on for a bit then share more.

 

[Wrangler]

I would like universalism if it didn't contradict Christ in the bible.

Powerful point. One way around this is the notion of accepting Jesus after death.

One part of Christianity that bothers me is the idea that even the wicked will be resurrected, just for the purposes of on-going punishment. And that leads us to another way. We take 'eternal punishment' to mean something different than 'eternal reward.' A reasonable interpretation of both is they are singular events - with eternal implications.

Imagine how wicked you would have to be to be raised from the dead, see Jesus in front of you to judge you and you still do not accept him as your savior?!

 

[Raccoon1010]

Powerful point. One way around this is the notion of accepting Jesus after death.

One part of Christianity that bothers me is the idea that even the wicked will be resurrected, just for the purposes of on-going punishment. And that leads us to another way. We take 'eternal punishment' to mean something different than 'eternal reward.' A reasonable interpretation of both is they are singular events - with eternal implications.

Imagine how wicked you would have to be to be raised from the dead, see Jesus in front of you to judge you and you still do not accept him as your savior?!

Good point. I'm not really sure how the afterlife works.

 

[Wrangler]

God had to restore everything that became affected in heaven during Satan's rebellion

This brings up a disturbing reality. It is possible to sin in heaven.

 

[Available Light]

In the last five comments, all I see is the opinions and vacillations of mortal minds, not one scripture to consider. Here is one for the Damnationist's to rationalize away:
Romans 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits (that'll preach - or course, no one on this forum is ignorant and wise in their own conceits);
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved (there is that pesky word "all" again): as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Wrangler]

In the last five comments, all I see is the opinions and vacillations of mortal minds, not one scripture to consider.

Sad. I was recently reminded that it was not until the 4th century that Christians had compiled Scripture. How did they manage?

 

[Wrangler]

Here is one for the Damnationist's to rationalize away:

Why don't you play Angel's Advocate for a while?


The Lord isn’t slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost.
2 Peter 3:9 (CEV)

 

[Available Light]

Sad. I was recently reminded that it was not until the 4th century that Christians had compiled Scripture. How did they manage?

Manage? They're all dead.

 

[Available Light]

Why don't you play Angel's Advocate for a while?


The Lord isn’t slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost.
2 Peter 3:9 (CEV)

The Devil has enough of his angels here.

 

[CadyandZoe]

In the last five comments, all I see is the opinions and vacillations of mortal minds, not one scripture to consider. Here is one for the Damnationist's to rationalize away:
Romans 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits (that'll preach - or course, no one on this forum is ignorant and wise in their own conceits);
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved (there is that pesky word "all" again): as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Yes, there is that pesky word "all" again. Now, step outside your paradigm and ask yourself the question, 'Is it because we can't read or understand English that we insist "all" doesn't mean "all"?'

To this, at this moment, all I have to offer you is this bit of advice. There is more than one way to approach a text, whether we are talking about the scriptures or any other written work. We can come to the scriptures looking for proof texts to support OUR understanding; or we can come to the scriptures to learn what God wants to teach us.

Be careful what you choose.

 

[Truther]

Yup, and even you too.
Where do you limit the Love of God? -You'd be trying to limit Infinity.

Do you think Adolph Hitler is in heaven?

 

[lforrest]

Agreed. I hope to advance the conversation in a more congenial way. Biblical support for universalism is scant but not non-existent. Consider the idea that God does not want anyone to perish. What does this mean to you?

For universalists, like me, it means the will of God is all-important and if he will's it, it will be done. What then about the rest of the Bible and Jesus suffering on the cross? That, as they say, is a story for another thread.

For me God not willing anyone should perish is a desire which will not come to fruition. In the Lord's prayer Jesus prays "your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Implying his will is not always done on earth.

I understand this is possible because God does not force submission to his will. Those who remain in heaven, submit to his will and are in agreement.

There is also a measure of authority, delegated to man to subdue the earth. This authority was delegated to Satan when Adam and Eve believed him over God and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Christ restored that authority to himself by his obedience to the Father, and none will remain that oppose him in time.