Help me get this right in my mind

[lilzachjazz]

To start with, I understand that God is infinitely good and having created us in his image, he and we humans have the same appreciation of what is good and what is bad. Further, God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. These four attributes taken together would seem to allow that only good things may come to pass, as it would be a trivial matter for God to so ordain, would it not? I mean why would a good, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God allow bad things to happen, such as the death of countless innocent babies, the murder of six million Jews, torture, illness, pain and suffering, poverty, despair? There must be a pragmatic, convincing, rational explanation why God has not banished evil and all horrific things, so what is it?My Uncle keeps putting me under pressure to explain and i can't seem to get the words right. Its like hes messing up my head and beliefs and i don't know what to say.

 

[SpiritSoldier]

There is not a short answer to this but I think you will find this article helpful.Although I do recommend this article not everything on the site is complete truth.There is Too Much Evil and Suffering For God to Exist?by Rich Deem http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/e...dsuffering.html

 

[Wakka]

It would be wrong for Him to intervene. He created us with free will for the intention to worship Him. Now as sinful humans, the reason why we have wars, famine, and dying babies. It's our fault, we sinned from God, and He punished us. Now, we would live in a better (even though sinful) world if everyone was kind and trustworthy. But we don't live in that kind of world, there are murderers, there are drug users. Rather than being righteous, they chose to be evil.But also remember this. In the end, God will punish the people for what they've done. If they became rapists or murderers, then they'll suffer eternal punishment from the Lord. God would stop this, but He gave us the choice of free will, and if He would take that away from us, then it we would just be robots, and He would have lied.I hope you understand.

 

[MickinEngland]

(lilzachjazz;31451)
I mean why would a good, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God allow bad things to happen, such as the death of countless innocent babies, the murder of six million Jews, torture, illness, pain and suffering, poverty, despair?
God himself doesn't abort babies or herd people into gas chambers or torture people or cause poverty and famine etc that's all done by human cruelty and mismanagement..As for illness, he gave mankind the knowledge to produce wonderful medicines and stuff to alleviate it.Remember, the earth is a battlefield midway between heaven and hell where God and Satan are fighting it out to win human souls, and battlefields are tough places.In a sense, God is like a football manager who tells his players what tactics to use to win, then retires to watch from the sidelines and let us get on with it.

 

[SpiritSoldier]

Hey Lilzachjazz this is what another source says. http://www.godspeaks.com/Text.asp?ID=WIG06P01How can I believe in a good God when there is so much evil in the world?Some of us really have to come to terms with evil…before we can fully believe in a God who is good. All sickness, pain, injustice, and death result from sin. So why doesn't God intervene? Why doesn't He just put an end to evil by eliminating sin? The fact is He has done just that! God sent Jesus Christ to take the penalty for our sin and break the cycle of death. His death in our place bought forgiveness for all who believe in him.Our loving and caring God actually uses hardship to serve a useful purpose. Imagine if we all went happily about our business without God-but without pain. Then, when we died, we would discover our rejection of God had earned us eternal punishment. The suffering that results from evil is like a symptom of a disease that sends us in search of a cure.God often uses hardship to make people who are busy with their own pursuits aware of their need for him. When we realize we can't deal with our circumstances, we go in search of a God who can.

 

[MickinEngland]

CHARLIE by MickCharlie hated God.Many years ago in his teens he'd been neutral, but as the years passed he'd looked at all the pain and suffering and destruction in the world and slowly decided he'd be an atheist because there couldn't be a God to let such things happen, and he threw himself into charity work, animal rights and environmental campaigning...As the years slowly rolled by, his grandparents died, as did his aunts, uncles, and parents,some with painful illnesses,and his coldness towards God turned to sheer hatred.Then,in his old age his beloved wife fell ill with a terminal illness and he tenderly nursed her for months before she too died.Broken hearted, he himself died soon after, and found himself face to face with God, but as God smilingly held out his hand for him to take,Charlie backed away quickly saying - "Don't come near me! Where were you when my gran was riddled with cancer, I sat at her bedside day and night comforting her!"And when my auntie had a stroke you deserted her too,but i travelled a hundred miles every day to visit her in the nursing home!"And what about my dad, reduced to an empty shell of a man with Alzheimers, I called round every evening to tend to him,where were you then?"And my darling wife withered away before my eyes, I saw to her every need in her final months because you weren't there!"I gave my dying relatives and animals and the planet all the love and caring it was possible for me to give, but you just stood by doing nothing! What did you ever give them?"And God, still smiling, softly replied- "I gave them you"... -----------------------------------------------------(Isaiah 6:8 - Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send?.. And I said, 'Here am I. Send me!'")

 

[lilzachjazz]

I put forward your arguments as i always do and he emailed me back sayingI have also told his how much i hate that he purposely refuses to capitalise God. I will apologize for him before you read his latest email.:naughtys To save time, you should be aware that some of the standard answers to the god-question posed above are not credible e.g. that granting mankind free-will after the expulsion from paradisiacal Eden, somehow lets god off the hook for all the bad things that have happened since, because, obviously…having the four attributes mentioned, god MUST have known the tragic consequences of giving a bunch of murderous primates the talent to cause mayhem and therefore he cannot be exculpated from being, at the very least an accessory before the fact – an offence that is often regarded as being as heinous as the crime itself?Further, the proposition that god allowed evil in order to give moral persons the opportunity to exercise their goodness by standing up to evil people, or alleviating wickedness is clearly nonsense and the idea that god has generously provided us with a get out of difficulties option through suicide, is perverse. In case you think I’ve gone off my rocker, Christians have seriously put forward these explanations for evil!

 

[SpiritSoldier]

Does he know about beauty,love, and choice? The beauty of love is that it is by choice. No one can make someone love you you can buy them stuff be nice to them or even give them your heart but you can't make any1 love you it is their choice. No God didn't design a perfect world but there is a perfect one to come he designed everything perfectly to give you the choice of to love him or yes even reject him. He didn't just program us like some software to love him he gave us the hardware to know him and yes have a relationship how powerful! And thus we have the choice to love or lack there of. it's in our hardware but not everyone let's it in their firmware to download into their software(hardware being our soul, software being our hearts, firmware being our mind) God loves us so much he gaves us a choice to love and who to love it's the most beautiful force on the earth everybody wants to be loved and not always do love which is their choice.Show me love and that will show you God give me beauty and I give you the truth of who he isthat we have the freedom of choice to do anything with our life but it is up to you who you choose but he is the one that gave you all this. God doesn't enjoy our pain, suffering or torment those are not his qualities but he allows them in this life because of sin and we already have a provision for sin so once sin is gone we will live in a perfect world in eternity

 

[Letsgofishing]

Heres my whacked out way of explaining it.In the begining Man and women were made perfect. But then man and women sinned and lost salvation.Now Imagine If God did not let sin into the world how would we ever get back to him if our only choice was to do whats right.We couldn't the only way we could get back to God is to have a second option, an option of sin. and If we refused to sin than we could get back to God.Now the beutiful part of the story is that God died for our sins so the test of life hasn't gotten a heck of a lot easier.But that is why sin is on earth so that we can get back to God.your brother in christRyan Fitz

 

[BearingChristaHammer]

The best reply to this in order for one to understand cannot be achieved through a carnal mindset, which would be your uncle because he seeks subjective truth and logic to explain his hidden rebellion to God - which in his conscious he is aware of on some level. God has left no one with an excuse, but being carnally minded his heart has been allowed to deceive him.The best thing I love about growing close to God and learning of his awesomeness is that the Spirit witnesses to that truth. It’s an epiphany, "like wow I always knew that, but I never really understood it". You know it in a way that it becomes a part of you seemingly from the beginning, that beginning in Christ and the Word, which He shares with us in all understanding. It's not like, it is a reawakening, a rebirth. And this confirming Spirit, God gave to all - but from birth we start dissenting and seeking after our own ways. It is a rebellion we all know in our hearts whether admittedly so or not. And we all will be judged without excuse for it.So what gives power to this sin? The Law. And what power does sin have? Death. And these being bad and God being good, why does He not step in? "Because He just doesn't" is a good enough answer to those vessels questioning their Crafter. But this doesn't work when you are blind and unaware of the glory that is God. “I'm the Father" that's why! - should suffice. As it is; has God allowed us to fall so far from grace that we cannot see Him in our carnal mindset? Yes, but…Fall from grace, never. We fall into our own deceptions because of the gift of free will leading from temptation to original sin, and ultimately death at the hand of the law. And why? Because of Love. The law is the fulfillment of God’s love towards us through Christ. The law is that we should Love God with everything that we are, and love our neighbor as ourselves. If the consequences of sin were so openly adherent to our survival, such as God being some colossal orbiting and raging cloud of fire zapping us down with lighting every time one sinned, who would sin? Yet would evil be eliminated from the world? Not likely. Would Love reign supreme? Nope.Would we love God, or our neighbors as ourselves? Not one of use. Life would be meaningless as we were all droved and hammered into submission - not out of the goodness of our hearts – but from fear. God does not want pre-programmed robots that honor His Holiness through submission of fear or because they were crafted incapable to do otherwise. This would choke out love at every turn. Any other dynamic would prove fruitless? In the end, does God not have the ability to remedy all wrongs? Certainly He does. The only errors and trespasses however tragic and bone chilling severe that God cannot remedy are those we withhold from Him.If I say in my heart that God cannot heal me, and I blame Him for evil, not understanding that which I was made for - God cannot fix me, why? The law. Is it greater than God? No, not at all, it was put there by Him that we may enjoy eternal life. It was fulfilled through the Blood of Jesus. It can be no other way and sacrilege as this may sound I came to this understanding partly in the right of my own mind – carnally, when I was yet in my search of Christ, although I didn’t know that’s what I was looking for at the time.So what does that say? Well for one; that God works in mysterious ways, but more than this that He did create us with an understanding of the Law. God is not the author of confusion, the good news or word does appeal to logic, though it is not subordinate to man’s understanding. Your uncle will not be able to deny in his heart that love could exist any other way. Now to the intricacies of God’s creation and all that is in and outside of this tiny little universe, we do not in our carnal minds have all knowledge to understand the depths of all things especially those concerning God’s design. We are puny man.But that love could not exist without all the hate that is present and allowed in this world can be ascertained through the simplest logic. 1 + 1 = 2. True. 1 does not stand by itself. It stands in relation to its surroundings, namely other integers, numbers, etc. 1 is it a positive or negative number? It is positive, right? Human logic mandates this obviously. Could it be considered positive without its negative counterparts, those that flow in the opposite direction descending away from zero in contrast to those ascending on the other end of the spectrum and counting up? It could not. Such is not the world that we live in. However I am certain that your uncle does not challenge this thinking, even if he cannot understand the higher mathematics.It seems appropriately fitting in his mind and he believes this to hold true all the way to the top. Even if I cannot explain the higher end mathematics I can put my faith in the fact that they would prove to hold if based on these original constructs, which I do indeed grasp. For good and evil to exist in this world they have to exist there freely. As well one of them cannot exist without the other. If your uncle can grasp these basic moral mathematics then he may have some building blocks to work with.And for the record God has stepped in to stop certain evils. In the Old Testament many were killed in the err of their ways as a warning to His people. Also look at the many miracles the living Jesus has performed on earth. The flood was hitting the reset button in hopes that we would learn, next time God sends fire. But how unfair that seems to me? He may ask. These would be the higher end mathematics that he shouldn’t strain to comprehend before he learns the basics. Though He should put his faith in them, that they hold true and that we are dealing with a more than fair and logical God is not his place to question.This is the rebellion of his heart in disbelief. I don’t know how much ground you’ve made with him, but I would shift gears if I were you. I would start at the resurrection, if you can prove that, you’ve got something, especially if he is carnally minded. Present some of the things found on this site for starters. The historical case for Christ is HUGE and really hard to deny in light of the evidence. It is loaded with positive evidence from hostile sources. This is the strongest kind of historical evidence. In essence, this means that if a source admits a fact decidedly not in its favor, then that fact is genuine.I pray that you can make some progress here my friend, and that your uncle’s heart will soften in time.If that link ever goes bad, just PM and I have the info.P.S. No spoiler tags??? Please PM if you know how, thanks.

 

[Kimshi42]

Why do people blame God for what they do? The question isn't why does God allow "bad things to happen, such as the death of countless innocent babies, the murder of six million Jews, torture, illness, pain and suffering, poverty, despair?"The question is why do we allow it?

 

[followerofchrist]

Like everyone else has said, God is not doing these evil things! We are. But maybe you should ask your uncle this: If everything in this world were good and nothing bad ever happened than why would people look to God? They wouldn't! God wants us to come to him, and just like the tribulation period is his final attempt to get humankinds attention, I believe the bad things in the world serve the same purpose. They drive us to God, he is our shepard and we are his sheep, we should rely on him to guide us.