Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[amigo de christo]

I don't believe the purpose of the church is to correct error. If it were, I would have NOTHING to do with such an eternally hateful organization.

Instead, I believe the purpose is to live in fellowship, loving God & each other.

The very institution you claim to be against you are following . We are to correct . Not to just get along and have unity .
GUESS where that came from , ECUMENCIALSIM all inclusive . You follow the CC , ROME and you dont even know it .

 

[Wrangler]

It is true. It is also true that the ONE God is present in heaven and on earth, and consequently takes on the appropriate nature of his surroundings.
.

I have no idea where you get this from. When God is in heaven, he is not called Father but on Earth, he is called Son!

God said in his own voice, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased." What appropriate taking on of his surroundings took place then?

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't believe the purpose of the church is to correct error. If it were, I would have NOTHING to do with such an eternally hateful organization.

Instead, I believe the purpose is to live in fellowship, loving God & each other.

You are becoming infected with a false sensual love . IF correcting makes me a hater , then who else have you just called a hater ,
JESUS and the APOSTELS . Not to mention , aint you always CORRECTING . Let us not be hyprocritical .
Let us learn our bible . PEROID .

 

[Wrangler]

Not to mention , aint you always CORRECTING .

We strongly disagree on this point and I reject your accusation of hypocrisy out of hand.

I wrangle over ideas, not people.

Let me give a real life example from this weekend. My stepdaughters treat my wife, their mother, like crap. I don’t take the time to ‘correct’ these adults nor do I think it would do any good whatsoever. See the difference?

 

[Cooper]

I have no idea where you get this from. When God is in heaven, he is not called Father but on Earth, he is called Son!

God said in his own voice, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased." What appropriate taking on of his surroundings took place then?

He became visible.
.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's the sin of rejecting God with full knowledge of who and what you are rejecting.

@GISMYS_7 @Cooper @amigo de christo

The "unforgiveable sin" of which Jesus speaks is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is literally accusing the Holy Spirit of lying or deception.

Jesus was having a discussion with his disciples concerning the public perception of himself.

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 16:13-17

Peter understood the actual and true identity of Jesus. But flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter. Our Lord Jesus Christ credits the Father for Peter's knowledge. And from the rest of the gospel we understand that Peter believed for two reasons: 1) the Father opened Peter's eyes, and 2) the Father, through the Holy Spirit, performed miracles intended to offer testimony from the Father himself that Jesus truly IS "the Christ, the son of the living God."

Anyone who has personally seen the miracles and all the other evidence, which proves that Jesus is the Christ, and having seen the evidence publicly announces that the Holy Spirit is a liar, has blasphemed the Holy Spirit and is worthy of damnation. Calling God a liar can never be forgiven.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Calling God a liar can never be forgiven.

"10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son." 1 John 5:10

 

[amigo de christo]

We strongly disagree on this point and I reject your accusation of hypocrisy out of hand.

I wrangle over ideas, not people.

Let me give a real life example from this weekend. My stepdaughters treat my wife, their mother, like crap. I don’t take the time to ‘correct’ these adults nor do I think it would do any good whatsoever. See the difference?

We correct the church memebers , i never said anything about unbelievers .
My advice is we follow the pattern JESUS set up and the apostels set up for the church . Those outside the church
we win to Christ . But those inside the church we sure do correct error .
an example , if we see two gay married men sitting in our church , or any who is an idolator , or covetous
or a railer , or drunkard or so on , We gotta correct that , just like paul and the others would have .
The seeker friendly model , Was bankrupt from its birth .

 

[amigo de christo]

@GISMYS_7 @Cooper @amigo de christo

The "unforgiveable sin" of which Jesus speaks is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is literally accusing the Holy Spirit of lying or deception.

Jesus was having a discussion with his disciples concerning the public perception of himself.

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 16:13-17

Peter understood the actual and true identity of Jesus. But flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter. Our Lord Jesus Christ credits the Father for Peter's knowledge. And from the rest of the gospel we understand that Peter believed for two reasons: 1) the Father opened Peter's eyes, and 2) the Father, through the Holy Spirit, performed miracles intended to offer testimony from the Father himself that Jesus truly IS "the Christ, the son of the living God."

Anyone who has personally seen the miracles and all the other evidence, which proves that Jesus is the Christ, and having seen the evidence publicly announces that the Holy Spirit is a liar, has blasphemed the Holy Spirit and is worthy of damnation. Calling God a liar can never be forgiven.

That is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost . Yes indeed it is .

 

[Wrangler]

He became visible.
.

What verse said got was ever visible to human beings? None.

 

[Cooper]

What verse said got was ever visible to human beings? None.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father
(Joh 14:9 KJV)
.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father
(Joh 14:9 KJV)
.

Odd rationalization of mirrors. Doesn't Scripture say point blank that no one has seen God?

 

[Cooper]

Odd rationalization of mirrors. Doesn't Scripture say point blank that no one has seen God?

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen 32:30 KJV)

And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. Judges 13:22
.

 

[Wrangler]

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen 32:30 KJV)

He named the place that but he actually saw an angel, right?

I was referring to John 1:18 'No one has ever seen God.'

 

[Cooper]

He named the place that but he actually saw an angel, right?

I was referring to John 1:18 'No one has ever seen God.'

No man hath seen God. Note.—That is, hath seen God as He is in Himself, or apart from some form assumed to render Himself visible: and thus this passage and the following references are not contradictory to Gen_32:30, or Exo_24:9-10, or Exo_33:11, or Mat_5:8, Moreover there is reason to believe that, on the occasions recorded in the Old Testament, it was The Word or Christ who appeared in the form of that nature in which he was afterwards to be revealed. Compare Isa_6:1 with Joh_12:41, and 1Co_10:4; 1Co_10:9 (De Burgh, p. 226). Such pre-incarnate appearances of Christ are sometimes called Christophanies (Joh_8:56; Joh_8:58; Joh_12:41). For Theophanies see +Gen_12:7 and +Gen_17:1). See also Gen_19:24 note and Gen_22:15 note. Joh_5:37; Joh_6:46; Joh_12:45, Gen_16:10; **Gen_17:22; +Gen_32:30, Exo_24:10; *Exo_33:20; **Exo_33:23, Num_14:14, Deu_4:11-12, *Jdg_6:22; *Jdg_13:22, +1Ki_22:19, Job_42:5, *Ecc_3:11, Eze_10:1, Amo_9:1, Mat_11:27, Luk_10:22, Rom_1:20, *Col_1:15, *1Ti_1:17; +*1Ti_6:16, 1Jn_4:12; 1Jn_4:20, 3Jn_1:11.
.

 

[Wrangler]

Moreover there is reason to believe that, on the occasions recorded in the Old Testament, it was The Word or Christ who appeared in the form of that nature in which he was afterwards to be revealed.

Pure imposing trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text. What construction is this 'in the form of that nature?' Speculation on top of speculation is hard reason to believe.

 

[Cooper]

Pure imposing trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text. What construction is this 'in the form of that nature?' Speculation on top of speculation is hard reason to believe.

Jesus said to Philip, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." THE One God with us made visible. (John 14:9 KJV) Please be told. You are making yourself look very foolish.

I assume you are Jewish by birth and faith, would that be true?
.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus said to Philip, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." THE One God with us made visible. (John 14:9 KJV) Please be told. You are making yourself look very foolish.

I think you are the one who is making yourself look foolish with all these allusions to mirrors. Jesus is not called God in Scripture. Jesus is not called God the Father in Scripture.

You must be unaware of the fact that the Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book in the Bible. @ 20:31 he says everything he wrote was to prove Jesus is the Anointed, son of God. This means that NOTHING he wrote can be used for the purpose you are attempting to use it, to prove Jesus is anything else - including, especially, God incarnate.

John 1:18 explicitly states that no one has seen God. Many people have seen Jesus. The obvious conclusion, over and over and over again is that Jesus is not God. Jesus cannot be God because Scripture states explicitly that he is the son of God, which means he cannot be God. Scripture does not play word games as trinitarians do; that he is the "Son" of the "Father." Scripture states over and over again that Jesus is the son of God, in his unitarian nature. Consider Christianity's end game and its reference to God, in his unitarian nature.


23 But this is how it will happen: the Anointed’s awakening is the firstfruits. It will be followed by the resurrection of all those who belong to Him at His coming, 24 and then the end will come. After He has conquered His enemies and shut down every rule and authority vying for power, He will hand over the Kingdom to God, the Father of all that is. 25 And He must reign as King until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last hostile power to be destroyed is death itself. 27 All this will happen to fulfill the Scripture that says, “You placed everything on earth beneath His feet.”[a] (Although it says “everything,” it is clear that this does not also pertain to God, who created everything and made it all subject to Him.) 28 Then, when all creation has taken its rightful place beneath God’s sovereign reign, the Son will follow, subject to the Father who exalted Him over all created things; then God will be God over all.
1 Corinthians 15:23-28 (Voice)

 

[Cooper]

I think you are the one who is making yourself look foolish with all these allusions to mirrors. Jesus is not called God in Scripture. Jesus is not called God the Father in Scripture.

You must be unaware of the fact that the Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book in the Bible. @ 20:31 he says everything he wrote was to prove Jesus is the Anointed, son of God. This means that NOTHING he wrote can be used for the purpose you are attempting to use it, to prove Jesus is anything else - including, especially, God incarnate.

John 1:18 explicitly states that no one has seen God. Many people have seen Jesus. The obvious conclusion, over and over and over again is that Jesus is not God. Jesus cannot be God because Scripture states explicitly that he is the son of God, which means he cannot be God. Scripture does not play word games as trinitarians do; that he is the "Son" of the "Father." Scripture states over and over again that Jesus is the son of God, in his unitarian nature. Consider Christianity's end game and its reference to God, in his unitarian nature.


23 But this is how it will happen: the Anointed’s awakening is the firstfruits. It will be followed by the resurrection of all those who belong to Him at His coming, 24 and then the end will come. After He has conquered His enemies and shut down every rule and authority vying for power, He will hand over the Kingdom to God, the Father of all that is. 25 And He must reign as King until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last hostile power to be destroyed is death itself. 27 All this will happen to fulfill the Scripture that says, “You placed everything on earth beneath His feet.”[a] (Although it says “everything,” it is clear that this does not also pertain to God, who created everything and made it all subject to Him.) 28 Then, when all creation has taken its rightful place beneath God’s sovereign reign, the Son will follow, subject to the Father who exalted Him over all created things; then God will be God over all.
1 Corinthians 15:23-28 (Voice)

Look, you cannot go on like this. I feel as though, when I read your posts, that I am reading the Talmud, Judaism's holiest book, all over again.

Here are some extracts.
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

"Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement" (Gittin 57a).

"Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a whore and played the harlot with carpenters" (Sanhedrin, 106a,b).

"[Christ] practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy" (Sanhedrin, 43a).

Under the Talmud's counterfeit Noahide Laws, the worship of Jesus is forbidden under penalty of death, since such worship of Christ is condemned by Judaism as idolatry. Meanwhile various forms of incest are permitted under the Talmudic understanding of the Noahide code. (Enziklopediya Talmudit, note 1, pp. 351-352).

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery: "It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone."

Jesus Christ (the bastard boy who "uncovered his head" was conceived in the filth of menstruation).

"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.

There is not an ounce of truth in any of this, and we do not need false anti-Christ propaganda on which your faith is based, on a Christian forum, thank you very much. There are limits.
.

 

[Wrangler]

Look, you cannot go on like this. I feel as though, when I read your posts, that I am reading the Talmud

Well, with all due respect to your feelings, I am quoting Scripture - and not imposing trinitarian doctrine onto the unitarian text.

I never heard of the disgusting things you say is in the Talmud. It's completely besides the point, which is you better get right following Jesus.

Scripture does not say you have to believe Jesus is God in order to be saved. Yet, you post like that is the central message of Scripture. It is not! Scripture says over and over and over again Jesus is God's Anointed, the Son of God, the Liberating King, the Savior of the World. Not once does Scripture claim Jesus is God incarnate or, again, believing this is a condition of salvation. The only God is Jesus' God.

And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
John 17:3 The Voice