Here we go - Slavery

[bbyrd009]

Can I sell you into sex slavery or beat you? That is what god said slave owners could do to unwilling slaves.

"unwilling" now. So now you are just making it up as you go, see.
Vinnie no offense but imo you are in great shape for a Fundie Believer, ok, and imo there is nothing wrong with that either. I can tell by your indiscriminate use of "is" recently that you are still a committed Hegelian, and I was raised from the cradle with that myself ok, no prob. Go team. Do your best to be the winner. I wish you the best of luck with that even, ok

 

[Vince]

"unwilling" now. So now you are just making it up as you go, see.
Vinnie no offense but imo you are in great shape for a Fundie Believer, ok, and imo there is nothing wrong with that either. I can tell by your indiscriminate use of "is" recently that you are still a committed Hegelian, and I was raised from the cradle with that myself ok, no prob. Go team. Do your best to be the winner. I wish you the best of luck with that even, ok

The bible itself describes the kind of slavery this is talking about and it is not about money lending etc.

 

[Vince]

wait, the God that you are not sure exists made those rules? How does that work?

This is an immature and in my opinion dishonest tactic. I am referring to the god of the bible that most here believe in. It is you that is avoiding the obvious conclusion that god endorsed slavery. Just look at all the paragraphs upon paragraphs here trying to make this not so and they all disagree on what it means. Why do you know instead of them?

And wadr i am not just passing the time here vinnie, i mean no offense ok but i am slowly going blind staring at a postage stamp playing durdur with you imo. How, tf, do you know it has nothing to do with that thing that you are not even being consistent about? I didn't bring it up as a deflection or subject change, ok
so what follows so there tells me that you are not interested in hearing anything, Vince, no offense, and i for sure am not interested in posting for posterity at the moment, ok. You are trying to win a conversation wadr, not reveal or seek, near as i can tell. If you are here to reveal, then reveal, and if you are here to seek, then hear.

Then stop posting.

Yes, the God that you are not sure "exists" inspired those who can hear better than you or i to carefully craft a passage that imo you have not even grasped the first sentence of yet, which I am now going to go pointlessly retrieve Bc of the way it is phrased, 1These are the ordinances that you are to set before them, which is...um expressing a kind of peculiar way for God to be phrasing ordinances, which are not ezackly laws so i dunno what version that is but i'm impressed. Anyway, no "Thou shalt" or "Thou shalt not" stuff goin on at all, see. "Put it to them this way" is what i am hearing there, and the "because" is occluded imo

That phrase seems pretty straightforward to me but then I am not trying to justify this passage.

 

[Vince]

"unwilling" now. So now you are just making it up as you go, see.
Vinnie no offense but imo you are in great shape for a Fundie Believer, ok, and imo there is nothing wrong with that either. I can tell by your indiscriminate use of "is" recently that you are still a committed Hegelian, and I was raised from the cradle with that myself ok, no prob. Go team. Do your best to be the winner. I wish you the best of luck with that even, ok

Not making anything up. I am just having a conversation which you don't seem to want to have, so good luck also.

 

[bbyrd009]

this is talking about

and it is not about

it's like this and like that and like this, Vinnie.
Wadr could you just tape the sermon and maybe i can hear it later?

 

[Vince]

it's like this and like that and like this, Vinnie

ok.

Why do you call me Vinnie and not Vince?

 

[bbyrd009]

Ah didn't even realize tbh, vinnie is easier to type?
More goomba too, seemed to fit better?

Not making anything up.

Of course you're not, i just said that Bc I am a lying dog bro

 

[Soverign Grace]

No, I realized that I had no good reason to believe and became unconvinced. Belief is not a choice.

I had a deep faith for many years. I was a true believer for at least 15 of my 18 years as claiming to be a christian. The more information I learned about epistemology and such I became unconvinced. I am not going to waste any more of my time trying to convince myself unless I am presented with new information. I feel like I have studies more than most Christians have about these subjects.

What are the reasons you believe?

You do know that it's Satan throwing a veil over your mind right? You have to fight through it. Keep reading the bible even though thoughts assail you that it's all a lie or a myriad of other thoughts. I came to believe through much fighting for faith.

I believe because when I sought God I underwent some change where I saw myself as I was, not how I thought I was. I later found a booklet someone left in a store: "Steps to Christ" and I knew I had undergone spiritual regeneration as explained in the booklet. I thank God for whoever left that booklet.

It was a tough fight. Doubts assailed me. Satan put fearful thoughts into my mind that God would make me a missionary and send me to some far-off place and other very ungodly thoughts. I was hit mercilessly by the evil one. I knew no other Christians and I stumbled badly without discernment falling for the "Name it and Claim it" preachers. I was hit by Satan and did not know what hit me - I knew nothing. It was a time of great suffering. I couldn't share what was happening, afraid people would think me crazy since I knew no one who believed.

I bumped into a neighbor in a store and she had become a believer and she shared her struggles and recommended the book: "The Adversary." I bought the book and things I was hit with I read about in that book. So I knew that I was getting attacked.

I began being able to understand the bible a little at a time. Then one by one people I knew also became believers.

That's why I believe. I know it's true because of what I lived through - and still live through. I don't understand God - things happened that I question deeply but there is nothing else to hold onto and I can't disbelieve in God - I know He is. It's what He does, that I have an issue with.

 

[ScottA]

an Absolute Trutharian?
a Standing There-ite?
Red Foreman has a good name for them, can't say it here though i guess :)

Ah, tbh imo Vin is also informing God's perspective, i would even be careful there, the prayers of a Righteous Man avail much.

But since im here anyway, guess I haven't considered God's perspective either, what is it? :)

Self. His.

 

[bbyrd009]

Self. His.

Ha well see you say that, and then I get a pitcher in my head of this Old Guy with a white beard whom everyone is calling Lord and bowing and scraping to Bc he passes out the um bread directing his serfs to accomplish his will that he may expand his holdings or whatever it is they did, diddle each other's wives and each other, when imo a...better working theory might be that there is no Self like that there at all, and His has no penis, no beard, no desires, no perspectives, no soul, no place, no family, no thoughts, no, what was the subject lol, oh ya, no Perspective there at all imo bro, in the way we define that term. What is the wind's perspective? What does breath believe? Who are hurricanes mad at? What is the goal of a tornado, what is it trying to accomplish? Why would a self and a his direct me to hate my self and kill my his, Scott?

Member when you were so young you could look into a mirror and not even see your self, Scott? You could see mom, see the carpet, etc, but and i know this seems ridiculously impossible but since you had no mental "value" or...i dunno, concept, interaction, definition for that moving blob you just simply did not see it, it was at most something that was in the way of something you could...identify.

Fwiw there are ways to illustrate this to a dults too, we still do it all the time, seen the moose sniff the steel tip of an arrow on a compound bow cocked to kill her lately, bac? I have a better one, but as no one has ever picked up miss moose and you gotta be in a certain like available frame of mind for the other one, to see the other one, i haven't after all i guess lol, so maybe i lied there :)

Wish i could make that less...whatever that is, i can tell I'm prolly not doing this right, but anyway would you like to? Remember i mean. If it were possible, would It interest you to recall the day you first recognized your self in a mirror? even though you had been around for like a year and change a that point iow, even walking for several months prolly, etc. Man, im writing chapters today yikes wth anyway maybe consider the possibility of no Self, no His, and no Perspective maybe. Temporarily even i mean, Bc obv God is not going to like vanish or any...ha, well, i guess He is lol, nevermind

 

[bbyrd009]

"Poof"


@Vince

 

[bbyrd009]

No offense but that perspective came from a planet right here in our solar system imo, starts with a U? Which don't take that wrong k i have totally forgotten what perspective we are even talking about, most likely i even agree with it ok, doesn't matter

ha, i'm a frustrated ignorant i guess now, saying ok instead of "see what i'm sayin?" lol
I'd code a prog to remove them all, but xenforo, yikes.
j/k ok

 

[ScottA]

Ha well see you say that, and then I get a pitcher in my head of this Old Guy with a white beard whom everyone is calling Lord and bowing and scraping to Bc he passes out the um bread directing his serfs to accomplish his will that he may expand his holdings or whatever it is they did, diddle each other's wives and each other, when imo a...better working theory might be that there is no Self like that there at all, and His has no penis, no beard, no desires, no perspectives, no soul, no place, no family, no thoughts, no, what was the subject lol, oh ya, no Perspective there at all imo bro, in the way we define that term. What is the wind's perspective? What does breath believe? Who are hurricanes mad at? What is the goal of a tornado, what is it trying to accomplish? Why would a self and a his direct me to hate my self and kill my his, Scott?

Member when you were so young you could look into a mirror and not even see your self, Scott? You could see mom, see the carpet, etc, but and i know this seems ridiculously impossible but since you had no mental "value" or...i dunno, concept, interaction, definition for that moving blob you just simply did not see it, it was at most something that was in the way of something you could...identify.

Fwiw there are ways to illustrate this to a dults too, we still do it all the time, seen the moose sniff the steel tip of an arrow on a compound bow cocked to kill her lately, bac? I have a better one, but as no one has ever picked up miss moose and you gotta be in a certain like available frame of mind for the other one, to see the other one, i haven't after all i guess lol, so maybe i lied there :)

Wish i could make that less...whatever that is, i can tell I'm prolly not doing this right, but anyway would you like to? Remember i mean. If it were possible, would It interest you to recall the day you first recognized your self in a mirror? even though you had been around for like a year and change a that point iow, even walking for several months prolly, etc. Man, im writing chapters today yikes wth anyway maybe consider the possibility of no Self, no His, and no Perspective maybe. Temporarily even i mean, Bc obv God is not going to like vanish or any...ha, well, i guess He is lol, nevermind

That was both honest and understandable, apropos. But time is short and so I will be more concise.

God himself tells us, "I am." Meaning that he is, and thus a self, the self. He also in a more roundabout way than you have just come, tells us that he has made us to be One with that self-evident self, even as one body, and yet many members and even different persons and identities, gifts, and purpose. But it is obvious that he who has no beginning and no end has broken things out for us to come into that same existence over time, with time to take each piece in order, separate where there is no separation. In the midst, we have questions and do not see the whole of all that is coming and that is. But that does not define it all differently because we do not see it, because our vision is not fully developed. No, on the contrary, we speak when we would do better to listen, we try assess what is not fully defined, not to him who made us, but to us only. We are in no position (or perspective) to say. But we can repeat what we hear, and yet if we repeat what men say, it is worth every bit and what we deserve. Yet what God has spoken should be said and understood, even if in glances not easy to see. Truth prevails. So we have this road to travel where speculations do not serve any good purpose. Better to wait and see. Better to let it all be, and come into that Oneness all in good time. Which, if he bestows us with wisdom, we will do by seeking him who already there.

 

[bbyrd009]

God himself tells us, "I am." Meaning that he is, and thus a self, the self.

Wait, God Himself appeared and told some US that? Wadr i don't believe you, got a pitcher? I'm not doing this just to be fractious ok, but to get to this Self thing, to then get to this "I have heard the Voice of the Lord" thing, wadr. I don't mind having to make assumptions, ok, see i didn't Q "time is short" even though it isn't, and etc.

My point here being how do you know, for sure, that that was not Satan telling you that, Scott?
Bc wadr i'm feeling like You are going to be telling me any second now that God "exists," etc ok. "Self" is something we have, not something Abba has. Imo. And i know this seems pointless or retarded or whatever but imo this is even contained in I AM. i am mark, You am Scott, but wadr my grasp is that God (not a name) AM, I AM, even the "I" there being strictly a convention.

and no offense but you did not reply to my post i guess, used to that tho, no prob

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, we need to be prepared to see all perspectives, in order to have a complete understanding. Thus far Vin has apparently not considered God's perspective.

which you will then/now Communicate to us with confidence, right?

 

[ScottA]

Wait, God Himself appeared and told some US that? Wadr i don't believe you, got a pitcher? I'm not doing this just to be fractious ok, but to get to this Self thing, to then get to this "I have heard the Voice of the Lord" thing, wadr. I don't mind having to make assumptions, ok, see i didn't Q "time is short" even though it isn't, and etc.

My point here being how do you know, for sure, that that was not Satan telling you that, Scott?
Bc wadr i'm feeling like You are going to be telling me any second now that God "exists," etc ok. "Self" is something we have, not something Abba has. Imo. And i know this seems pointless or retarded or whatever but imo this is even contained in I AM. i am mark, You am Scott, but wadr my grasp is that God (not a name) AM, I AM, even the "I" there being strictly a convention.

and no offense but you did not reply to my post i guess, used to that tho, no prob

Unless I missed another post, I was responding in #153.

But, no, "I" clearly indicates the self of God.

As for what I heard, I heard nothing, but was caught up in the spirit and shown. Then also directed to the word of God, where his word confirmed my experience, and my experience confirmed his word as the truth from God...wherein all of this is made authentic.

 

[ScottA]

which you will then/now Communicate to us with confidence, right?

If I have experienced truth with confirmation and confidence, should I not communicate with confidence?

 

[bbyrd009]

But, no, "I" clearly indicates the self of God.

bc God "exists," right, He does too have a soul, and you two are going to have a big chat after you die huh Scottie. I mean cmon, you know spirits are personified in Scripture for a reason?

As for what I heard, I heard nothing, but was caught up in the spirit and shown.

satan is a spirit too, Scott, satan is the one we like and understand, even: satan speaks in deterministic phrases as if he knows too, see

Then also directed to the word of God

which you have also misidentified, surely: as it was meant to be I guess

where his word confirmed my experience

completing your wadr complete opposite illustration of the concept from Scripture's, they heard the word and then searched the Scriptures to verify It.

so, i"m sure you mean well ok, but could you please stop? Bc trust me bro you do not want to hear Word if you can possibly avoid It, which i know makes no sense, it"s nonsense, but i sure can Quote that and you can"T Quote yours, huh. You are going to need a fresh pair of undies after you hear Word, should you ever be so unfortunate, Word is distilled Truth right, and we are not designed i guess to be hearing that much truth at once. it hurts, like any truth, knowledge brings sorrow, only It hurts on a whole nother level. if you ever here Word it is bc you are about to make a fatal mistake i guess, bc i was refusing to listen to Christ"s Words was what i got, and you dont have to believe me i don't even blame you but you will not be scared of the imaginary Ragnarok that Scripture uses to reveal hypocrites after you hear Word even one time, bc Word is Doom to our ears, me telling you your children had just all perished would be fun after Word ok. Try understanding Scripture first imo, I mean who can even do that?

now imo get this settled this am, go find where Scripture = Word right now, and bring it here and Quote it, or adjust your def of Word so you can stop talking like satan ok, and deceiving weaker brothers. too. just imo

 

[bbyrd009]

If I have experienced truth with confirmation and confidence, should I not communicate with confidence?

oh, for sure, you definitely should, pls don't let my opinion stop you ok.
Say you know if you know, bam, and my apologies

 

[Taken]

"Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing." (Ex 21:1-2, ESV)

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money." (Ex 21:20-21 ESV)

This verse in context is saying these things:
1. God made rules for one person to enslave another by.

God made rules, for "IF" and "SHOULD" one become a slave owner.

2. God says here that a slave is another persons money, dehumanizing them.

"IF" and "SHOULD" a man become "INDEBTED" to an other, "AND" not able to "REPAY the DEBT";
Yes, God created a WAY for a man to REPAY the DEBT with the mans OWN SELF, becoming Subject to the Service of his Debtor.

3. God made rules for one person to beat another with a rod.

Correct.
God is a stickler for TRUTH.
AND...
Opportunity to REPAY their DEBTS.

When a man cannot repay with what he borrowed, and promises with his word to repay with his bodily service, and then RENEGS. Yes, corporal punishment is instituted as a means to make the man KEEP his word, and the Debtor to receive his DUE for the Debt owed.

4. God is ok with a slave being beaten so bad that he may only survive a day or two as long as you don't hit them in the eye or make a tooth come out (26-27).

Correct. Perhaps you are unaware, A Slave owner, provides the food, clothing, shelter of their Slaves.
Would you like to Continue providing food, clothing, shelter for a man indebted to you, who agreed to work off his debt, and then failed to do so? LOL, ya right!

Why is this god, if he exists, to be followed? Or, are these verses saying something different?

Or are you of the mindset, it is okay to Borrow, Fail to Repay, and have No rules for consequences of Repayment?

Glory to God,
Taken