Here we go - Slavery

[Vince]

You do know that it's Satan throwing a veil over your mind right? You have to fight through it. Keep reading the bible even though thoughts assail you that it's all a lie or a myriad of other thoughts. I came to believe through much fighting for faith.

Show me evidence that Satan exists?

I believe because when I sought God I underwent some change where I saw myself as I was, not how I thought I was. I later found a booklet someone left in a store: "Steps to Christ" and I knew I had undergone spiritual regeneration as explained in the booklet. I thank God for whoever left that booklet.

It was a tough fight. Doubts assailed me. Satan put fearful thoughts into my mind that God would make me a missionary and send me to some far-off place and other very ungodly thoughts. I was hit mercilessly by the evil one. I knew no other Christians and I stumbled badly without discernment falling for the "Name it and Claim it" preachers. I was hit by Satan and did not know what hit me - I knew nothing. It was a time of great suffering. I couldn't share what was happening, afraid people would think me crazy since I knew no one who believed.

I bumped into a neighbor in a store and she had become a believer and she shared her struggles and recommended the book: "The Adversary." I bought the book and things I was hit with I read about in that book. So I knew that I was getting attacked.

I began being able to understand the bible a little at a time. Then one by one people I knew also became believers.

That's why I believe. I know it's true because of what I lived through - and still live through. I don't understand God - things happened that I question deeply but there is nothing else to hold onto and I can't disbelieve in God - I know He is. It's what He does, that I have an issue with.

I did this for many years. Because I started to actually study my beliefs I came to the conclusion that I don't have any good reason to believe god exists.

 

[Vince]

Unless I missed another post, I was responding in #153.

But, no, "I" clearly indicates the self of God.

As for what I heard, I heard nothing, but was caught up in the spirit and shown. Then also directed to the word of God, where his word confirmed my experience, and my experience confirmed his word as the truth from God...wherein all of this is made authentic.

I can find numerous examples of Muslims telling an account of how they met Allah. Why should I believe your story over theirs?

 

[Taken]

I was a true believer yet I found my way out.

It was your choice to believe.
It was your choice to Stop believing.
You found your "WAY OUT", of belief, which is not particularly a phenomenonal statement, since everyone has freewill to believe as they please.

The belief of a man, is simply a BEGINNING, of PREPARATION, for the man to COMMIT.

You freely chose to NOT COMMIT your belief OF the Lord TO the Lord.

You freely chose to STOP BELIEVING.
And God chose to stay TRUE to His word;
To NOT Convert those who Reject Him.

You should be Content; Your choice prevails, Other mens choices prevail, Gods Will prevails.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Vince]

God made rules, for "IF" and "SHOULD" one become a slave owner.

I agree.

"IF" and "SHOULD" a man become "INDEBTED" to an other, "AND" not able to "REPAY the DEBT";
Yes, God created a WAY for a man to REPAY the DEBT with the mans OWN SELF, becoming Subject to the Service of his Debtor.

This is only one kind of slavery talked about. The Israelite's could buy slaves from surrounding nations and keep them forever not as a repayment of a debt.

Correct. Perhaps you are unaware, A Slave owner, provides the food, clothing, shelter of their Slaves.
Would you like to Continue providing food, clothing, shelter for a man indebted to you, who agreed to work off his debt, and then failed to do so? LOL, ya right!

I would not severely beat them with a rod. Would you? Are you OK with me beating my kids?

Or are you of the mindset, it is okay to Borrow, Fail to Repay, and have No rules for consequences of Repayment?

No, but we don't beat people who don't.

 

[Vince]

It was your choice to believe.
It was your choice to Stop believing.

Nope, and you never answered my question; Can you believe the moon is made of cheese? We do not choose to believe anything we are either convinced or not.

You found your "WAY OUT", of belief, which is not particularly a phenomenonal statement, since everyone has freewill to believe as they please.

I am not convinced we have free will as you say but again no one can choose to believe something they are not convinced of.

 

[Taken]

This is only one kind of slavery talked about. The Israelite's could buy slaves from surrounding nations and keep them forever not as a repayment of a debt.

There are more than one connotation of what Slavery is.

So? Are you not allowed to buy what you desire?

I would not severely beat them with a rod. Would you? Are you OK with me beating my kids?

Are you okay with unruly children?
Do you know the difference between children and men?
Are you okay with no recourse for Adults who agree to something and then find they are Liars?

No, but we don't beat people who don't.

You may have missed the Lesson, that OT Law was fulfilled.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Nope, and you never answered my question; Can you believe the moon is made of cheese?

I have NO knowledge that the moon is made of cheese or that your brain is made of tar.
Nor is that a topic of the OP, or of interest to me.

We do not choose to believe anything we are either convinced or not.

Telling me your belief is based on what convinces you, has already been addressed.
No DUH, people are hear information about a topic, then (BY WHATEVER MEANS ie influence, convincing, trusting, logically concluding, etc.)......THEN DECIDE BY THEIR OWN FREEWILL to Believe the information...
OR NOT!

Pretending you Do not receive the information and "THEN" can "DECIDE by YOUR OWN FREEWILL to BELIEVE the information or not, is nonsense".

I am not convinced we have free will as you say but again no one can choose to believe something they are not convinced of.

Your circular argument is a fail.
Information received does not MAKE you believe anything.
You have the freewill to believe whatever YOU choose.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Soverign Grace]

No, I realized that I had no good reason to believe and became unconvinced. Belief is not a choice.

I had a deep faith for many years. I was a true believer for at least 15 of my 18 years as claiming to be a christian. The more information I learned about epistemology and such I became unconvinced. I am not going to waste any more of my time trying to convince myself unless I am presented with new information. I feel like I have studies more than most Christians have about these subjects.

What are the reasons you believe?

When I went through hardship I had to hold onto something. I won't bore you with details but I needed something. I began searching for God. For reasons unknown to me God allowed me to "wander in the desert" and be misled - I knew no believers and I wasn't raised Christian. My parents were very moral people, but not Christians. I later learned that my great-grandfather was a pastor and someone in my family lineage dropped the ball. I tend to think that may be why it was so hard for me since Satan knew that the lineage was broken and desperately tried to keep it that way.

When I sought God I met the evil one. I was attacked in multiple ways that I won't recount but I learned that there is a devil. We had neighbors who were on drugs and the woman was high as a kite and tried to kill my husband & I with a wrench - when the police came two big cops could not wrestle her to the ground. She was a skinny little drug addict and she had strength that came from nowhere. If you had seen the evil on her face you would have known that you looked into the face of Satan. Another believer mentioned that they passed her on the street and it was like "looking into the face of the devil" so our perceptions were similar.

We lived on a dead end and both sides of us were doing drugs. I felt an oppression over the area - it was a sense of heaviness. It was before the internet and I checked a book out of the library by Billy Graham and he wrote of an experience where he had traveled by ship for evangelization and a sense of oppression came over him. Bingo. I knew I was experiencing the same.

We moved from there and left the druggies to take over. I could not shake the feeling of oppression though. A Christian neighbor recommended the book "The Adversary." I bought the book and read many things I had experienced. I wrote to the author and he gave me a prayer to say. I said it throughout the day and the oppression broke.

That's how I know the bible is true. I lived it.

 

[Soverign Grace]

No, I realized that I had no good reason to believe and became unconvinced. Belief is not a choice.

I had a deep faith for many years. I was a true believer for at least 15 of my 18 years as claiming to be a christian. The more information I learned about epistemology and such I became unconvinced. I am not going to waste any more of my time trying to convince myself unless I am presented with new information. I feel like I have studies more than most Christians have about these subjects.

What are the reasons you believe?

When I went through hardship I had to hold onto something. I won't bore you with details but I needed something. My siblings moved back home with their families and there was overcrowding. I was only 17 when my mother asked me to move out; instead of asking the married siblings to move out. I was a shy, sensitive young woman thrown to the lions. That's all I say but it was hard. I began searching for God. For reasons unknown to me God allowed me to "wander in the desert" and be misled - I knew no believers and I wasn't raised Christian. My parents were very moral people, (except for foolishly asking me to move out at 17 for which I never fully forgave them) but not Christians. I later learned that my great-grandfather was a pastor and someone in my family lineage dropped the ball. I tend to think that may be why it was so hard for me since Satan knew that the lineage was broken and desperately tried to keep it that way.

When I sought God I met the evil one. I was attacked in multiple ways that I won't recount but I learned that there is a devil. We had neighbors who were on drugs and the woman was high as a kite and tried to kill my husband & I with a wrench - when the police came two big cops could not wrestle her to the ground. She was a skinny little drug addict and she had strength that came from nowhere. If you had seen the evil on her face you would have known that you looked into the face of Satan. Another believer mentioned that they passed her on the street and it was like "looking into the face of the devil" so our perceptions were similar.

We lived on a dead end and both sides of us were doing drugs. I felt an oppression over the area - it was a sense of heaviness. It was before the internet and I checked a book out of the library by Billy Graham and he wrote of an experience where he had traveled by ship for evangelization and a sense of oppression came over him. Bingo. I knew I was experiencing the same.

We moved from there and left the druggies to take over. I could not shake the feeling of oppression though. A Christian neighbor recommended the book "The Adversary." I bought the book and read many things I had experienced. I wrote to the author and he gave me a prayer to say. I said it throughout the day and the oppression broke.

That's how I know the bible is true. I lived it.

 

[Vince]

There are more than one connotation of what Slavery is.

So? Are you not allowed to buy what you desire?

Not everything like drugs, prostitutes etc. and I certain;y not able to buy people as property.

Are you okay with unruly children?

No, I have three children and I never beat them with a rod and they are great people. Mainly because I teach them to think for themselves and use critical thinking skills and to be kind to others no matter if they are not kind back.

Do you know the difference between children and men?
Are you okay with no recourse for Adults who agree to something and then find they are Liars?

No, but beating them with a rod is not a recourse that I think is appropriate. We have a court system to deal with these issues with other penalties that are sufficient.

 

[Vince]

I have NO knowledge that the moon is made of cheese or that your brain is made of tar.
Nor is that a topic of the OP, or of interest to me.

This avoids the question again. I am not asking you of you have evidence that the moon is made of cheese I am asking since you don't have good reason to believe the moon is made of cheese if yo can believe it is as you claim you can.

Telling me your belief is based on what convinces you, has already been addressed.
No DUH, people are hear information about a topic, then (BY WHATEVER MEANS ie influence, convincing, trusting, logically concluding, etc.)......THEN DECIDE BY THEIR OWN FREEWILL to Believe the information...
OR NOT!

Nope. You cannot truly believe something that you are not convinced of. The question above still remains unanswered.

Your circular argument is a fail.
Information received does not MAKE you believe anything.
You have the freewill to believe whatever YOU choose.

Point out where it is circular. You are claiming that you can believe anything you want if you choose to. I don't think this is possible. Think of something that you disbelieve and try to believe it by choice.

 

[Vince]

When I went through hardship I had to hold onto something. I won't bore you with details but I needed something. I began searching for God. For reasons unknown to me God allowed me to "wander in the desert" and be misled - I knew no believers and I wasn't raised Christian. My parents were very moral people, but not Christians. I later learned that my great-grandfather was a pastor and someone in my family lineage dropped the ball. I tend to think that may be why it was so hard for me since Satan knew that the lineage was broken and desperately tried to keep it that way.

When I sought God I met the evil one. I was attacked in multiple ways that I won't recount but I learned that there is a devil. We had neighbors who were on drugs and the woman was high as a kite and tried to kill my husband & I with a wrench - when the police came two big cops could not wrestle her to the ground. She was a skinny little drug addict and she had strength that came from nowhere. If you had seen the evil on her face you would have known that you looked into the face of Satan. Another believer mentioned that they passed her on the street and it was like "looking into the face of the devil" so our perceptions were similar.

We lived on a dead end and both sides of us were doing drugs. I felt an oppression over the area - it was a sense of heaviness. It was before the internet and I checked a book out of the library by Billy Graham and he wrote of an experience where he had traveled by ship for evangelization and a sense of oppression came over him. Bingo. I knew I was experiencing the same.

We moved from there and left the druggies to take over. I could not shake the feeling of oppression though. A Christian neighbor recommended the book "The Adversary." I bought the book and read many things I had experienced. I wrote to the author and he gave me a prayer to say. I said it throughout the day and the oppression broke.

That's how I know the bible is true. I lived it.

Thanks for sharing this story. I can feel that you have compassion and concern for me.

Two years ago my wife had a major operation to remove her esophagus, it was the culmination of 25 years of being diagnosed with Achalasia. What I saw there was many good people praying for her, anointing her with oil for healing and such as the bible says to no affect other than to cause comfort for my wife which I am still grateful. The surgeon that has been treating my wife for this rare disease and did the operation was an amazing woman that was highly educated through science, had been one of a few doctors in the US studying this disease and knows how to treat her. She was compassionate and knowledgeable. I know some will jump on this as saying this is the reason I stopped believing but it is not. My point is that I see science doing "miraculous" things everyday but I have no evidence of any real miracle healing from any god. Many attribute her successful operation to god anyway. Is it possible that you made bad decisions and then you were the one to make better ones that changed your life? Why do you attribute things to satan or god?

 

[ScottA]

I can find numerous examples of Muslims telling an account of how they met Allah. Why should I believe your story over theirs?

You should be able to tell the difference. If not, you will go according to your own will. Make a choice.

 

[ScottA]

bc God "exists," right, He does too have a soul, and you two are going to have a big chat after you die huh Scottie. I mean cmon, you know spirits are personified in Scripture for a reason?

satan is a spirit too, Scott, satan is the one we like and understand, even: satan speaks in deterministic phrases as if he knows too, see

which you have also misidentified, surely: as it was meant to be I guess
completing your wadr complete opposite illustration of the concept from Scripture's, they heard the word and then searched the Scriptures to verify It.

so, i"m sure you mean well ok, but could you please stop? Bc trust me bro you do not want to hear Word if you can possibly avoid It, which i know makes no sense, it"s nonsense, but i sure can Quote that and you can"T Quote yours, huh. You are going to need a fresh pair of undies after you hear Word, should you ever be so unfortunate, Word is distilled Truth right, and we are not designed i guess to be hearing that much truth at once. it hurts, like any truth, knowledge brings sorrow, only It hurts on a whole nother level. if you ever here Word it is bc you are about to make a fatal mistake i guess, bc i was refusing to listen to Christ"s Words was what i got, and you dont have to believe me i don't even blame you but you will not be scared of the imaginary Ragnarok that Scripture uses to reveal hypocrites after you hear Word even one time, bc Word is Doom to our ears, me telling you your children had just all perished would be fun after Word ok. Try understanding Scripture first imo, I mean who can even do that?

now imo get this settled this am, go find where Scripture = Word right now, and bring it here and Quote it, or adjust your def of Word so you can stop talking like satan ok, and deceiving weaker brothers. too. just imo

oh, for sure, you definitely should, pls don't let my opinion stop you ok.
Say you know if you know, bam, and my apologies

I have said "I know" a thousand times in your hearing, and I have no need to waver, but every reason to be confident. Not Satan or any demon can do what God has done (for me). I called to him by Name, and it was he who answered. My confidence is in God.

 

[bbyrd009]

and it was he who answered.

Hmm, did He have like a card or something, Scott?
How the heck do you know who it was wadr, what qualifications are you going by, if i may ask ty. What "name" did you call? What "answer" did you get, specifically, Scott? Does it contradict Scripture at every turn too?

Got nothing on the top one? Zero, nada, zilch? That is a big neon mark of where your confidence is, wadr. No offense but 3 nihilists have already committed suicide after little chats with me, and i was being nice, it was irl, i didn't do much more than Quote tbh. Tried to solely do that, even. They were good friends. So maybe better if we don't interact too much, ok

 

[Taken]

Not everything like drugs, prostitutes etc. and I certain;y not able to buy people as property.

Then you are unaware of history and even today, that people were and are "stolen, kidnapped" and then ARE available FOR SALE.

No, I have three children and I never beat them with a rod and they are great people.

Awesome for you, that you have never had to raise a hand to an unruly child.
And this would be a case that you daily raise them from a baby to adulthood?

Mainly because I teach them to think for themselves and use critical thinking skills and to be kind to others no matter if they are not kind back.

Sounds as if they decided their own rules, because IF they were YOUR rules, it would have been according to YOUR thinking and NOT theirs.

You have presented an astounding scenario.
A full time parent, raising three children to Think for themselves, which means NO CONSIDERATION for your thoughts and authority over your own household.

No, but beating them with a rod is not a recourse that I think is appropriate. We have a court system to deal with these issues with other penalties that are sufficient.

A Parent is the Head of the household government/Castle and rule maker and rule enforcer.

But apparently in your household you avoided having a rule breaking consequence, by allowing each child to Think for themselves what is acceptable for them, without regard to your thoughts.

Fascinating.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

This avoids the question again. I am not asking you of you have evidence that the moon is made of cheese I am asking since you don't have good reason to believe the moon is made of cheese if yo can believe it is as you claim you can.

I'm telling you your wondering about my "good reason to believe" what the moon is or isn't made of.........Is not a little circle jerk of nonsense, I "choose to even consider."

Nope. You cannot truly believe something that you are not convinced of. The question above still remains unanswered.

I believe your question is foolish.
And "I CHOSE" to not answer.

Sure I can believe something I am not fully convinced of.
I am not fully convinced you are nuts, but I believe you are.

Think of something that you disbelieve and try to believe it by choice.

That is your game. Why don't you play and I'll make the choice if I want to be a spectator or not.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Vince]

You should be able to tell the difference. If not, you will go according to your own will. Make a choice.

How do I tell the difference? There is no way to tell the difference.

 

[Vince]

Then you are unaware of history and even today, that people were and are "stolen, kidnapped" and then ARE available FOR SALE.

I understand this. Are you saying that it is right for this to happen to people?

Awesome for you, that you have never had to raise a hand to an unruly child.
And this would be a case that you daily raise them from a baby to adulthood?

Yes. They were unruly at times to be sure but other methods besides beating them can be used and are more effective in the long run.

Sounds as if they decided their own rules, because IF they were YOUR rules, it would have been according to YOUR thinking and NOT theirs.

Ok.

You have presented an astounding scenario.
A full time parent, raising three children to Think for themselves, which means NO CONSIDERATION for your thoughts and authority over your own household.

I did not mean they thought for themselves since they were born. Come on you know I did not mean that. They are taught how to think for themselves, they still have rules to follow but explaining why there are rules to them allows them to think for themselves and to think of others, how their actions affects others. Beating a child may get them to obey at the moment but that won't last into adulthood. Explaining to them why they are being punished and why there are rules will let them contemplate and think about things in a way that beating t hem won't.

A Parent is the Head of the household government/Castle and rule maker and rule enforcer.

But apparently in your household you avoided having a rule breaking consequence, by allowing each child to Think for themselves what is acceptable for them, without regard to your thoughts.

Why do you not read what I actually say? I never said we don't have rules or consequences I said beating them is not a consequence we think is moral. That's all.

 

[Vince]

I'm telling you your wondering about my "good reason to believe" what the moon is or isn't made of.........Is not a little circle jerk of nonsense, I "choose to even consider."



I believe your question is foolish.
And "I CHOSE" to not answer.

Sure I can believe something I am not fully convinced of.
I am not fully convinced you are nuts, but I believe you are.



That is your game. Why don't you play and I'll make the choice if I want to be a spectator or not.

Glory to God,
Taken

More insults and obfuscation. Just answer the question. Its a simple question. If you say you choose what you believe then you should be able to believe the moon is made of cheese.