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Featured Heresy within Christianity

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by aspen, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Spiritual Dualism
    Protecting the Law at the expense of people
    Name it and claim it
    OSAS
    Replacing the command to “love your neighbor” with “telling your neighbor about salvation”
    Limiting “your neighbor” to your family, church family or people who agree with you
    Promoting lone wolf Christianity by demonizing church
    Mistaking personal revelation and public revelation
    Using and promoting “holy adhominien” attacks
    Consequentialism
    Exalting knowledge and demoting heart
    Replacing humility with “Holy Ego”

    As Christians we have our work cut out for us. Perhaps we can give our own eye the attention it desperately needs......

    thoughts?
     
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  2. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] What do you mean by this exactly?

    [​IMG]Who is doing this? By "law", do you mean Gods commandments or the law of the land? If its the latter, well law enforcement is inherently about protected the law at peoples expense. We see it everyday when family's are torn apart in these fake, anti-male courts called "family court", all for profit, with the threat of the use of enforcement if not obeyed. Its not really about what is right & wrong, only what is "legal".

    It is stated that believers are sealed with the Seal of God unto the day of redemption, implying your salvation is secure. However, this does not mean it can't be broken under certain conditions. Can a so called believer still claim to be saved, claim to love God without obeying his commandments? If the answer is yes, then your beliefs does not align with scripture.

    Can they still claim to have the seal of God if they take the mark of the beast? If the answer is yes, then would you as a believer be willing to test God on that? I sure as hell wouldn't, but its your soul that's at stake, not mine, so knock yourself out.

    Are we commanded to "love our neighbor" at our own expense? Is there a line that is not to be crossed in this commandment, where we are to "love our neighbor" within reason, common sense, and basic human dignity?

    Some churches deserve to be demonized, for leading the flock astray. But are you saying that lone wolfing is a problem?

    Isn't this the basis for many arguments Christians use when defending the actions of God? When a christian justifies God burning Sodom to a crisp, or drowning every living being on the planet, Christians basically explains it away as the ends justifying the means, which it did, because God is just. God says "thou shalt not kill", and left it at that as if there would never arise a time when killing is absolutely necessary, yet we see it absolutely was necessary throughout the old testament for the Hebrews, which God condoned. Therefore, "thou shalt not kill" doesn't really mean "under any circumstances", unless we are calling God a hypocrite. If a lie saves a persons life, or my life, does it really matter to you that I lied? Would it matter to God? In this imperfect world, I ain't that concerned about the action itself being moral, because anybody claiming to be totally above board is the biggest liar of all. They aren't fooling me, and they sure as hell ain't fooling God.

    You should elaborate on how knowledge demotes the heart, since God says his people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    There are so many modern errors in the modern teachings.....like layers of an onion. The more you peel away the doctrines the more you want to cry.

    And it all begins with a misunderstanding of the gospel. And a continuing lack of spiritual life.
     
  4. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know you had so many personal problems, maybe it would be wise to keep it to yourself. you know, its crass to hang out your dirty laundry.

    just what do you think a site like this is for? if you have the clean truth to speak, speak it, those who love the truth will respond.

    read the gospels, there were those who thought to contest His Words at every turn, were do you get the idea that you should have it any easier? or that anything has changed? human nature doesn't change. and if you speak the Lord's interpretation of His Word and not your own, then you just might be in the right. but a sinner doesn't cleans a sinner from sin does he? only the Truth does.
     
  5. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
    .. and that not of yourselves:
    .... it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    ..
    For we are His workmanship,
    .... created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
    ...... which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

    (Ephesians 2:8-10)

    'Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
    .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
    .... unto a perfect man,
    ...... unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    That we henceforth be no more children,
    .. tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
    .... by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    But speaking the truth in love,
    .. may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
    .... From whom the whole body fitly joined together
    ...... and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
    ........ according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,
    .......... maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.'

    (Ephesians 4:13-16)
     
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  6. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    You only asked for thoughts and already some it seems to me are in an attack mode. Is that the 8th one in you list?

    A major problem of my own in considering your list would is the word, heresy, in the Title of the thread. I guess I know what my own definition of 'heresy' is but I suspect it is different than yours and both of our definitions are likely different from others on this forum including people who have already posted on this thread.

    People use the word heretic perhaps too lightly in reference to others who do not fit their own take or description or revelation of a follower of Christ.

    Different people will apply the word in accord with their own beliefs using their own definition. That may be OK for a group of people who believe essentially the same doctrines and/or use the same definitions, but with other people or within an assorted group such as we have here on a supposedly open Internet forum perhaps better understanding of what is meant is needed each time we say "heresy" or "heretic".

    Personally, I try to avoid using the word or any of its derivatives, because it has negative connotations in any case and for every idle word used we may be condemned, not by man, but by God's Word.

    "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

    For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37

    For me, a heretic is one who intentionally goes against what he personally knows or believes to be God's Way.

    We can say that the Bible is our rulebook, but as we know some such as the Mormons use other books, and some such as the Catholics use things that may not be spelled out in the Bible, or even have other books [the apocrypha] within the Bible. This would make it quite difficult for us to all to agree that someone is a heretic in accord with everyone's rulebook. Even of those who use exactly the same written rules will frequently disagree on what some written words mean. It would, of course, be nice if all who claim to be Christian would agree on which books or traditions or definitions to use, but therein lies a big part of the problem. We cannot!

    Paul makes it clear in the following verse that to some he was considered a heretic because he was a follower of the way of Jesus:

    "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets" Acts 24:14

    Would we all agree that Paul after meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus was always a heretic? Probably not!


    Yet, both Peter and Paul use the word in other places as something, which is opposed to the Truth, which they support [I Cor 11:19, Gal 5:20, II Peter 2:1].

    Maybe all of us should be careful about calling anyone a heretic or accusing anyone of heresy.

    Maybe when Jesus calls some hypocrites, could He have used the word “heretics” for them with the same meaning?

    "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." Matt 23:13-15

    Can we not do what Jesus did? It would seem to me that we could do that without putting ourselves in condemnation, ONLY IF, we knew as much as He knew about the ones we were calling such a name.

    These are simply some of my thoughts on the subject. Maybe others have some other thoughts to help us all to understand better where we are and more importantly where we should be with God.
     
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  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    How come you forgot all the false teachings of the RCC? That would make a very long list.
     
  8. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    forgot?
     
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  9. Seasoned by Grace

    Seasoned by Grace Active Member

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    The HERESY began in 2nd Corinthians when several were raised up to preach a false teaching and did there best to condemn Paul as he tried his best to defend the faith God used him to bring to the people for their salvation.

    Paul's last words before he left Corinth was that there would be a great falling away , and it not only started after he left, but the "GREAT FALLING AWAY continues until this day.

    Why do you think there are so many division in God's ORIGINAL FAITH that is nothing more than an "ABOMINATION" . ALL DENOMINATION ARE AN ABOMINATION TO GOD.

    Why do you worry which denomination will be saved when no denomination will be SAVED, as they were created by man NOT GOD. GOD ONLY CREATED ONE CHURCH, AND ONLY "FEW" BELONG TO IT. Only the individuals who God has "INDIVIDUALLY" PRE_DESTINED, or CHOSEN ,or THE ELECT, or THE APPOINTED, or THE REMNANT, or THE FEW, will belong to GOD.

    God says:
    MATTHEW 7:14 FEW who call themselves believers will be SAVED.
    LUKE 13: 23-23, FEW who call themselves believers will be SAVED.
    MATTHEW 7:21 "FEW who call themselves believers will be SAVED.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  10. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Your shouting...
     
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  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    All false doctrine begins by a denial of life in the Spirit...a denial of a life in the presence of God empowered to walk as Jesus walked. So then ALL heretics walk in their own strength. But what makes them heretics isn't just that they walk in their own power...but that they teach a form of godliness but WITHOUT the power of God (grace) raising their life to the level of Christ.

    It is the same for false prophets who claim much but have seen nothing. These always have a good report about themselves and they who hear them.
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Or deliberately suppressed. Makes no difference. The heresies within the Catholic Church have a long tradition.
     
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  13. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Makes me wonder, was there any other Prophet other than John The Baptist who did have a "good" report? They weren't invited to any back yard barbecues I bet :D I will say that they were to be feared! Not adored and honored like they are today, giving people words that did NOT come from God Himself. They are fortunate there is no more stoning, lol.
     
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  14. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'But this I confess unto thee,
    .. that after the way which they call heresy,
    .... so worship I the God of my fathers,
    believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
    .. And have hope toward God,
    .... which they themselves also allow,
    ...... that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
    And herein do I exercise myself,
    .. to have always a conscience void of offence

    .... toward God, and toward men.'
    (Acts 24:14)

    Hello there,

    Above is a portion of Paul's defence before the Governor Felix, in which he answers the accusations brought against him by his own countrymen. However, it is the way that Paul worshipped God that they called heresy, and which made him in their eyes a 'heretic'. He worshipped God the Father, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who was self confessedly 'the way, the truth and the life', for no man could come to the Father but by Him. He was a stumbling block to the Jew (1 Peter 2:6-8). They stumbled at 'the word'( 1 Peter 2:8) concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore the fault was in them, and not in the one they accused of heresy.

    Those who use the word 'heresy' in regard to their fellow believers., should examine their motivations in so doing, and make sure that they are not also at fault.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris


    '
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  15. Seasoned by Grace

    Seasoned by Grace Active Member

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    My dear lady.
    There are many here who speak "HERESY" for they are not of God. Matthew . 7:14, "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and "FEW" are those who find it."
    That verse is for the MANY false believers all over the world who are included in Matthew 7:13..."the way is broad that leads to destruction.".

    God commands us to JUDGE our brothers and sisters out of love and fear for their salvation, , but not to judge the world, or are you aware of that??

    The word "FEW" is a hated word that false believers either ignore or preach a false doctrine about, but fear not, GOD WILL HAVE THE LAST WORD.
     
  16. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Seasoned by Grace,

    With respect to you, that does not mean that a careful examination of the reason for that accusation should not be made, by looking within one's own heart, before making it. In order to be sure that it is a true statement, born of the truth of God's word, and not the result of doctrines held by tradition, by the accuser, which have themselves no basis in Scriptural fact.

    I say this to you @Seasoned by Grace, not that I believe you guilty of this, or that I am pointing the finger at any other member by so doing, but because I feel that the accusation 'Heretic' is a strong one indeed, and should be used with care.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  17. Seasoned by Grace

    Seasoned by Grace Active Member

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    The word HERETIC or HERESY I use here is not an accusation, as if what I say MAY BE TRUE, I use the word HERESY or HERETIC or HERETICAL as a STATEMENT of FACT after I have compared words and statements, and conclusions used here as the speakers facts, which instead contradict the TRUE WORD OF GOD.

    Can you tell the difference between the truth and a lie.

    Others have spoken up about the heretical idea's that come across these pages to CONTEND for the truth and to DEFEND the truth as "APOLOGISTS" who hate lies, so can I do any less and support those who also stand for the truth.

    Jesus died for the TRUTH, is it such a big thing to stand and defend what HE died for in my place. I THINK NOT???
     
  18. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'The words of the LORD are pure words:
    as silver tried in a furnace of earth,
    purified seven times.
    Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
    Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.'

    (Psalm 12:6)

    Hello @Seasoned by Grace,

    Standing for the truth is a good thing to do. I agree.

    With love in Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  19. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Agree.

    Heresy is:
    an opinion profoundly at odds with what is "generally accepted."

    What was "generally accepted" by the Gentiles and Greeks and Romans was multiple
    gods.

    What was "generally accepted" by the Jews was God Not Jesus.

    What was and is "generally accepted" by Catholics is the infallibility of their holy father, their pope, and Mary their interecessory.

    Yes Paul revealed "THEY" calling their rejection "heresy"...even to those whose WHO reject Have elected their Standing in Christ the Lord God.

    It's just a word used by people against others who will not agree with "their" doctrines, "as if"...their intended derrogaratory calling somehow gives merit to supersede The Lords Doctrine.

    Acts 24:
    [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which "they call heresy", so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
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  20. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Those who support "truth" have no need to "shout". The only truth is in Christ, and since more are in church than in Christ shows you how little truth there is.
     
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