Heresy within Christianity

[Grailhunter]

But genetic studies have shown that apes have so many differences in their genetic code from humans that there is no way they could mutate into humans through genetic means. Actually, the fruit fly has more similarities in its genetic code to humans, it it would be more likely that a fruit fly, with simple changes in genetics could transform into a human being, than apes could.

Actually evolution requires genetic information to be added to a species to be able to transform into a higher species, but genetics have proved that the adaptations within a species involves genetic information being lost, such as in Darwin's finches, where the short beak gene was lost when two long beak finches with just the long beak gene and no short beak gene, mated and produced a long beak finch.

So the only way genes can be added to a species is through human genetic engineering in a laboratory. But this is not evolution, because evolution requires time and chance, not design. So far, no scientist through genetic engineering has been able to add human genes to an ape to transform it into anything like a humanoid. I guess if they tried they would probably get something like Frankenstein's monster, or some other horribly deformed creature that one can view in a science fiction horror movie.

But genetic studies have shown that apes have so many differences in their genetic code from humans that there is no way they could mutate into humans through genetic means.
It goes to show you that a person can work real hard to live a lie.
Ever since researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives.

 

[Yehren]

But the examples you showed did not show change from one species of plant to another,

It showed how one species of plant gave rise to a different species. "Slow" isn't part of evolutionary theory; it can take only one generation as in some cases we've seen, or it can take many, many generations.

nor of one species of rodent to another.

As you learned, one species became several.

All you showed was mutation and adaptation within the same individual species of plant and rodent.

That's what evolution is, remember? Descent with modification. Or more precisely, change in allele frequency in a population over time. As you learned, even major creationist groups admit the fact of speciation. But evolution does not always produce a new species. Sometimes, it just changes an existing species.

If the evening primrose had changed into a rose,

Then evolutionary theory would have been in big trouble. You're still not getting what "evolution" and "speciation" are. So long as you're oblivious to what these terms actually mean, you're walking around in the dark.

Furthermore, the mule is the offspring of a horse and a donkey,

It is possible to produce a new species by hybridization, but it's more common in plants than in animals. Usually such hybrids in animals can't reproduce. Do you understand why?

 

[Yehren]

My father could graft a delicious apple branch onto to a cox's orange base and get both delicious and cox's orange apples from the same tree,

My father told me he had grafted several varieties onto one tree, but that isn't evolution. Individuals don't evolve; populations do. Maybe you should take notes so you don't keep making the same mistakes.

 

[Yehren]

Also, evolution has to happen by chance

Darwin's great discovery was that it isn't by chance. Again, you were already shown that. Take notes so you don't have to make the same error again and again.

Both examples you have given have resulted in some kind of human involvement

Nope. And you have seen many examples of speciation, some which humans weren't even aware of at first. Take notes.

 

[Paul Christensen]

But genetic studies have shown that apes have so many differences in their genetic code from humans that there is no way they could mutate into humans through genetic means.
It goes to show you that a person can work real hard to live a lie.
Ever since researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives.

So, as I said in another post, if you implant human sperm into a female chimp you should be a able to produce an offspring that shares both chimp and human DNA - if their genetic codes are close enough for evolution to happen.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It showed how one species of plant gave rise to a different species. "Slow" isn't part of evolutionary theory; it can take only one generation as in some cases we've seen, or it can take many, many generations.



As you learned, one species became several.



That's what evolution is, remember? Descent with modification. Or more precisely, change in allele frequency in a population over time. As you learned, even major creationist groups admit the fact of speciation. But evolution does not always produce a new species. Sometimes, it just changes an existing species.



Then evolutionary theory would have been in big trouble. You're still not getting what "evolution" and "speciation" are. So long as you're oblivious to what these terms actually mean, you're walking around in the dark.



It is possible to produce a new species by hybridization, but it's more common in plants than in animals. Usually such hybrids in animals can't reproduce. Do you understand why?

The fact remains that it will still a type of Evening Primose, and still a type of mouse, therefore mutations not evolution.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Darwin's great discovery was that it isn't by chance. Again, you were already shown that. Take notes so you don't have to make the same error again and again.

Nope. And you have seen many examples of speciation, some which humans weren't even aware of at first. Take notes.

When you can show me a definite and clear example of one definite animal type such as a fish changing into another animal type such as a lizard, and not mutations within the same animal or plant type, then I will believe you. But it will never happen because if the most highly qualified evolutionists in the USA cannot show the transformation from actual observation, then I don't think you will have much chance.

Try it for yourself. After the current coronavirus restrictions have passed by, go to your local university, and ask the most qualified evolutionary scientist you can see and ask him or her to show you actual observed examples of evolutionary change from one distinct animal or plant species to another which involves a total transformation into a totally different entity, such as a daffodil into a rose, or a mouse into a rat, without human genetic engineering, and then let me know how you got on.

 

[Grailhunter]

So, as I said in another post, if you implant human sperm into a female chimp you should be a able to produce an offspring that shares both chimp and human DNA - if their genetic codes are close enough for evolution to happen.

It don't work that way. There still arguing over if Neanderthals could breed with Homo-Sapiens

 

[mjrhealth]

Humans evolved from other apes, not from fish.

Oh really,, so your uncle is a monkey, cool. Mankind didnt come from Apes... though many apes seems smarter than humans.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It don't work that way. There still arguing over if Neanderthals could breed with Homo-Sapiens

But there are real people who have the appearances of being Neanderthal, but are actually fully formed, intelligent people like you and me. People come in sorts of different shapes, sizes, and different shades of brown, but we are all of the same race. There is only one human race. We are all related, and the changes in different ethnic, cultural and language groups are to do with genetic variations. This kills racism because there are no inferior or superior races. There is no such thing as black or white. I can prove this by getting you to hold up a piece of white or black paper up beside your face. If it is totally white, then you'd better phone the ambulance because you are really sick and ready to die! The difference between Europeans living in the North of England, and Africans living near the equator, is the amount of melanin in their skin. The colour of skin, the size and shape of noses and lips, and eye colour, whether hair is straight or curly is due to genetic changes within people, and not through evolution.

Racism is caused by evolutionist belief that some races are inferior to others, making Africans inferior because of the belief that they are evolutionary closer to African apes than Europeans who have "evolved" further up the evolutionary chain.

 

[Grailhunter]

But there are real people who have the appearances of being Neanderthal, but are actually fully formed, intelligent people like you and me. People come in sorts of different shapes, sizes, and different shades of brown, but we are all of the same race. There is only one human race. We are all related, and the changes in different ethnic, cultural and language groups are to do with genetic variations. This kills racism because there are no inferior or superior races. There is no such thing as black or white. I can prove this by getting you to hold up a piece of white or black paper up beside your face. If it is totally white, then you'd better phone the ambulance because you are really sick and ready to die! The difference between Europeans living in the North of England, and Africans living near the equator, is the amount of melanin in their skin. The colour of skin, the size and shape of noses and lips, and eye colour, whether hair is straight or curly is due to genetic changes within people, and not through evolution.

Racism is caused by evolutionist belief that some races are inferior to others, making Africans inferior because of the belief that they are evolutionary closer to African apes than Europeans who have "evolved" further up the evolutionary chain.

Yes...as time goes on they do mix and white and black are cliches.

 

[Jay Ross]

So, you can't really answer why Adam previously was immortal, and then became mortal and physically died 900 years later?

I'm saying you claimed it's about physical death when God makes it very clear that it's about a spiritual death. Would you like me to show you that again?

The so called technical translation of this verse has hidden the fact that Genesis 2:17 is speaking that if we sin, in the case of Adam, the eating of the forbidden fruit, then we will, at a defined time in the future, suffer the Second Death. To put it another way, "If we sin, we become a candidate for the Second Death if we do not repent of that sin to God.

In my opinion, you are both wrong, and will argue until the cows come home, each holding steadfastly to your own personal doctrine.

Good luck with that.

 

[Jay Ross]

It seems that I got it wrong as both Paul and Yehren like to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Yehren]

The so called technical translation of this verse has hidden the fact that Genesis 2:17 is speaking that if we sin, in the case of Adam, the eating of the forbidden fruit, then we will, at a defined time in the future, suffer the Second Death.

No. God says that he will, the day he eats from the tree, die. And yet when he eats, he still lives on physically for many years. So we know, from the text itself that the death is not a physical one.

To put it another way, "If we sin, we become a candidate for the Second Death if we do not repent of that sin to God.

That's not in the text; that is man's revision of God's word.

In my opinion, you are both wrong

See above. Your own personal doctrine isn't in scripture.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Oh really,, so your uncle is a monkey, cool. Mankind didnt come from Apes... though many apes seems smarter than humans.

I must be related in some way, because I love bananas, and when I was 12 my teacher called me an ape when I made a mistake! It is true, that the way some humans behave at times you would think that apes can be smarter than them! I also think that my two cats may have some human genes, because they tend to act like members of my family, and have different meows for different purposes!

In the 1960s I heard someone call a person a cool cat.
Sometimes I'm a tiger for punishment.
My daughter is a bit of a big mouse when it comes to eating cheese.
James Cagney called someone a dirty rat.
One of the meanings of "pussy" describes a feline creature.
Sometimes I am a dog with a bone when I am debating on the forum.
Some people, like me, tend to rabbit on about things.
Some Christians describe themselves as "worms blowing the gospel trumpet".
Someone can be a cunning snake.
Don't monkey around with equipment you don't understand!
He eats like a dog and swims like a fish, and bites like a shark.

So, we may be related to all these animal groups if it is just through our behaviour!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes...as time goes on they do mix and white and black are cliches.

I have stopped referring to myself as a white person, because I'm just a lighter shade of brown, and my friend from Ghana is a darker shade of brown. So we are all brown!!!

 

[Yehren]

mjrhealth writes:

I truly would love to see a fish change into a human, that would be a site to see,

Yehren chuckles:
Humans evolved from other apes, not from fish.

Oh really,, so your uncle is a monkey,

I did have one uncle who was a creationist, but he did that to himself. Humans didn't evolve from monkeys, either. Maybe it would be worth your while to learn about some of this; you'd be much more effective fighting science if you knew what it is.

Mankind didnt come from Apes...

Technically, we are apes. Humans and chimpanzees are an ingroup with other apes the outgroup.

though many apes seems smarter than humans.

Other apes do have some cognitive functions that are better than those of humans, but general intelligence isn't one of those. Even creationists are smarter than most other ape species.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It seems that I got it wrong as both Paul and Yehren like to argue for the sake of arguing.

No. We are having a respectful and intelligent discussion and being dogmatic about our individual beliefs. This is what a forum is all about, and I think my friend will agree with me that we are both having fun jousting with each other. Wouldn't the forum be boring if we all just agreed with each other?

It's like this;
Caveman A: "Ug!"
Caveman B: "Ug!"
Caveman A: "Ug!"
Caveman B: "Ug!"
Caveman A: "Ug!"
Caveman B: "Ug!"
Caveman A: "Ug! Ug!"
Caveman B:"Hey, don't change the subject!"

 

[Yehren]

So, as I said in another post, if you implant human sperm into a female chimp you should be a able to produce an offspring that shares both chimp and human DNA - if their genetic codes are close enough for evolution to happen.

Unlikely. Because of a chromosome fusion at some time in the past, the genes of humans and chimpanzees, although very, very similar, are on different chromosomes. And that should keep them from reproducing.

 

[Yehren]

It don't work that way. There still arguing over if Neanderthals could breed with Homo-Sapiens

Since we sequenced Neandertal DNA, there's no question. Most non-African humans carry many Neandertal genes.