Heresy within Christianity

[Grailhunter]

I have stopped referring to myself as a white person, because I'm just a lighter shade of brown, and my friend from Ghana is a darker shade of brown. So we are all brown!!!

I know what you mean. My Great-Grandfather called them colored...since then I have heard negros...blacks...African American...ebony....persons of color...but overall you are right. Definition of Caucasian.....

The Caucasian race is a grouping of human beings historically regarded as a biological taxon, which, depending on which of the historical race classifications is used, has usually included ancient and modern populations from Europe, Western Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa.

Webster New World Dictionary
1. of the Caucasus, its people, their language, etc.
2. So named from the erroneous notion that the original home of the hypothetical Indo-Europeans....

And it gets more complicated from there. The cultural connection of dark and black to evil make an accurate, positive, and complimentary designation more difficult. I was raised with the designation of colored, but that is not accurate, it just that I am comfortable with it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Since we sequenced Neandertal DNA, there's no question. Most non-African humans carry many Neandertal genes.

Yes I have heard that. But did we get that directly from the Neanderthals, or from breeding with the Cro-Magnon group?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Unlikely. Because of a chromosome fusion at some time in the past, the genes of humans and chimpanzees, although very, very similar, are on different chromosomes. And that should keep them from reproducing.

Ah! I didn't know that! You have witnessed a miracle! Something I didn't know!

That sort of puts the knife into evolutionary apes to humans...

 

[Paul Christensen]

I know what you mean. My Great-Grandfather called them colored...since then I have heard negros...blacks...African American...ebony....persons of color...but overall you are right. Definition of Caucasian.....

The Caucasian race is a grouping of human beings historically regarded as a biological taxon, which, depending on which of the historical race classifications is used, has usually included ancient and modern populations from Europe, Western Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa.

Webster New World Dictionary
1. of the Caucasus, its people, their language, etc.
2. So named from the erroneous notion that the original home of the hypothetical Indo-Europeans....

And it gets more complicated from there. The cultural connection of dark and black to evil make an accurate, positive, and complimentary designation more difficult. I was raised with the designation of colored, but that is not accurate, it just that I am comfortable with it.

The problem of racism is not just about skin colour. It is about culture and origins. In New Zealand, our indigenous Maori are now respected as "people of the land" and the treaty between Maori and European is enshrined in law. but it wasn't always the case when the British colonisers believed that the Maori were just primitive savages and treated them that way. With a greater understanding of the culture and history, we have learned that they were very intelligent people with a strong social culture and trade routes throughout both islands. One prominent Maori, name Honi Heke, own his own coastal boat and traded regularly with the early colonists. But he was nationalistic and didn't like the British and got himself into trouble by regularly cutting down the British flagpole.

I think things are different with Australian Aborigines, where there is not that same respect and no treaty between them and the European Australians, but things are improving there.

In the USA, African Americans have to contend with a historic slave culture which is still causing some animosity between them and Europeans in some Southern states. But then I am not an expert in American history and culture, although because of going to the movies every Saturday as a kid, I knew more about it than our own history at that time!

Anyway, I don't have any qualification in anthropology so, I am sure I will be corrected and have my thoughts amended by some who know more than I do about it!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hi Troll,

Thank you!

My wife was brought up and educated Catholic and she would belt me over the head with the frying pan if I said anything like that to her!

 

[Grailhunter]

The problem of racism is not just about skin colour. It is about culture and origins. In New Zealand, our indigenous Maori are now respected as "people of the land" and the treaty between Maori and European is enshrined in law. but it wasn't always the case when the British colonisers believed that the Maori were just primitive savages and treated them that way. With a greater understanding of the culture and history, we have learned that they were very intelligent people with a strong social culture and trade routes throughout both islands. One prominent Maori, name Honi Heke, own his own coastal boat and traded regularly with the early colonists. But he was nationalistic and didn't like the British and got himself into trouble by regularly cutting down the British flagpole.

I think things are different with Australian Aborigines, where there is not that same respect and no treaty between them and the European Australians, but things are improving there.

In the USA, African Americans have to contend with a historic slave culture which is still causing some animosity between them and Europeans in some Southern states. But then I am not an expert in American history and culture, although because of going to the movies every Saturday as a kid, I knew more about it than our own history at that time!

Anyway, I don't have any qualification in anthropology so, I am sure I will be corrected and have my thoughts amended by some who know more than I do about it!

Fair to say that racism...prejudice is a deep topic. For the average person, the only way to address it is with Christian love.

 

[Grailhunter]

My wife was brought up and educated Catholic and she would belt me over the head with the frying pan if I said anything like that to her!

xrose, your wife?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Fair to say that racism...prejudice is a deep topic. For the average person, the only way to address it is with Christian love.

Very true. When we know that we are all of the same human family and are related, then we know to love one another as we love the members of own close family.

 

[Dcopymope]

Fair to say that racism...prejudice is a deep topic. For the average person, the only way to address it is with Christian love.

Or by simply distancing oneself from the racist. "Christian love" will only take you so far with such creatures. The day black people are allowed to have their own nation unmolested, without being harassed by others is the day I might entertain their very existence as somehow legitimate.

 

[Paul Christensen]

xrose, your wife?

Nope! My wife's name is Catherine and she is not a member of any forum.

I do have digs at her when she calls a character on a soap opera "You lying creep!" and I tell her that St Pius wouldn't like that. She says, "Are you making fun of my religion?" and I say, "Yep!" and we have a laugh. But when she overheard me telling a friend that I thought that the RCC was a total fraud, boy did she get her nose out of joint! It was not because I said it to her, but to someone else and she thought that I was criticising her faith to a third party.

We both watched the 2 hour video on why Pope Benedict resigned and the researchers exposed the corruptions in the Vatican including homosexual orgies and the widespread prostitution among priest, many of whom actually admitted it on camera, without shame! We both learned a lot about it, and agreed that what is going on in the Vatican is not consistent with her faith or mine.

I referred to Pope Francis considering abolishing celibacy for priest and I joked on another forum site that if he did, multitudes of male and female prostitutes would be out of work! I was officially warned and whacked over the knuckles for it! Some Catholic people are more tolerant about mentioning these things than others!

At least on this forum, Catholics will fire right back at me with contrary views, instead of going bleating to the administration to shut me up.

But I am not anti-Catholic at all, but I am against false doctrine, prayers to Mary, extortion through fraudulent Indulgences, fancy hats and robes, paganised Mass. But then that is my dogmatic religious view based on what many call Sola Scriptura.

This means that if I give it, I have to be able to take it as well!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Or by simply distancing oneself from the racist. "Christian love" will only take you so far with such creatures. The day black people are allowed to have their own nation unmolested, without being harassed by others is the day I might entertain their very existence as somehow legitimate.

That won't happen. We can show Christian love with all those of different shades of brown who share our societies with us. I'm not into segregation. It sounds like the Southern USA attitude and Apartheid to me.

 

[Dcopymope]

That won't happen. We can show Christian love with all those of different shades of brown who share our societies with us. I'm not into segregation. It sounds like the Southern USA attitude and Apartheid to me.

Segregation is one group having rights, privileges, power over another. Separation is another thing entirely. There can be no "segregation" if you aren't bound to their system. This necessitates the need for blacks to have their own nations, truly, not like what we have going on now. These white boys tell can't us to go back to Africa only to run into even more white boys, and their slanted eyed counter parts known as "Asians".

 

[Paul Christensen]

Segregation is one group having rights, privileges, power over another. Separation is another thing entirely. There can be no "segregation" if you aren't bound to their system. This necessitates the need for blacks to have their own nations, truly, not like what we have going on now. These white boys tell can't us to go back to Africa only to run into even more white boys, and their slanted eyed counter parts known as "Asians".

You are a United States citizen. The only difference between and other citizens is the amount of melanin in your skin. You are right. Those brown skinned people with less melanin in their skin have no right to tell you to go to a foreign country. If you were born in the USA, there is no going "back" to Africa, because you didn't come from there in the first place.

It would be like those in New Zealand who have more melanin in their skins telling me with a lot less in my skin to go back to Denmark where my ancestors came from. I don't even speak Danish so what would be the use of that?

Even in African nations there are citizens of those countries where there is a mixture of people of different shades of brown in their skin. So what makes a darker brown citizen more of a citizen than a lighter brown one? In fact, where do you draw the line at where a certain shade of brown is a citizen and another shade of brown shouldn't be?

 

[Jay Ross]

No. God says that he will, the day he eats from the tree, die. And yet when he eats, he still lives on physically for many years. So we know, from the text itself that the death is not a physical one.

No, the Hebrew text states that Adam will Die, the second death. H:4171 Mowt, "die", H:4191 taamuwt, "the second death." but the scholars', so called "technical understanding is to change the meaning of mowt to have the meaning of "surely," which elsewhere in the OT is translated as "die." But "taamuwt" is not the same word as "mowt" and as such it should have a very different meaning. What I am suggesting is that the second death as found in Revelation 20 has been there since the time of Adam and that it is associated with committing sin(s) and Adam in eating from the tree of knowledge, sinned and as such, if he did not repent then he was a candidate for the second death at the time of the GWTR judgement which will occur at the end of the Age of the Ages.

That's not in the text; that is man's revision of God's word.

As per above, we must consider all of God's word before we adopt a particular doctrine. You have not considered all of God's word before you drew your own conclusion, that is not in the text; that is man's revision of God's word.

See above. Your own personal doctrine isn't in scripture.

Why accuse me of having my own personal doctrine that isn't in scripture, when your understanding and doctrine is nowhere to be found in scripture at all. What you have done, just like Paul, is attempted to provide a logical human understanding of Gen 2:17. I, on the other hand can see the references, scattered throughout the scriptures, to the Second Death, in both the OT and NT.

I go by what I stated in my previous post. Both you and Paul are arguing from the same place with respect to scripture.

Shalom

 

[Paul Christensen]

No, the Hebrew text states that Adam will Die, the second death. H:4171 Mowt, "die", H:4191 taamuwt, "the second death." but the scholars', so called "technical understanding is to change the meaning of mowt to have the meaning of "surely," which elsewhere in the OT is translated as "die." But "taamuwt" is not the same word as "mowt" and as such it should have a very different meaning. What I am suggesting is that the second death as found in Revelation 20 has been there since the time of Adam and that it is associated with committing sin(s) and Adam in eating from the tree of knowledge, sinned and as such, if he did not repent then he was a candidate for the second death at the time of the GWTR judgement which will occur at the end of the Age of the Ages.



As per above, we must consider all of God's word before we adopt a particular doctrine. You have not considered all of God's word before you drew your own conclusion, that is not in the text; that is man's revision of God's word.



Why accuse me of having my own personal doctrine that isn't in scripture, when your understanding and doctrine is nowhere to be found in scripture at all. What you have done, just like Paul, is attempted to provide a logical human understanding of Gen 2:17. I, on the other hand can see the references, scattered throughout the scriptures, to the Second Death, in both the OT and NT.

I go by what I stated in my previous post. Both you and Paul are arguing from the same place with respect to scripture.

Shalom

The reason why Adam and Eve hid from God in the trees of the garden was that they knew they had done wrong, and were afraid that God was going to kill them on the spot. But He didn't, because He didn't say exactly when they would die. The fact is, that Adam did die - 900 years later, and because 1000 years is just one day to God, he died the next day as far as God is concerned.

I think the notion that it was just spiritual and not physical dead is something read into the Scripture record that is not there, and every Israelite and Jew would have understood that it was physical dead, because they did not have any conception of spiritual life or death. That is a New Testament revelation involved in people being converted to Christ received the Holy Spirit and then started living in the Spirit.

The first indication that there was a place where unbelievers went to was when Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Before then death was "sleeping with their fathers", and going into the "pit" or the grave.

So to interpret "death" in terms of spiritual death is to put a New Testament interpretation on an Old Testament Scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

Nope! My wife's name is Catherine and she is not a member of any forum.

I do have digs at her when she calls a character on a soap opera "You lying creep!" and I tell her that St Pius wouldn't like that. She says, "Are you making fun of my religion?" and I say, "Yep!" and we have a laugh. But when she overheard me telling a friend that I thought that the RCC was a total fraud, boy did she get her nose out of joint! It was not because I said it to her, but to someone else and she thought that I was criticising her faith to a third party.

We both watched the 2 hour video on why Pope Benedict resigned and the researchers exposed the corruptions in the Vatican including homosexual orgies and the widespread prostitution among priest, many of whom actually admitted it on camera, without shame! We both learned a lot about it, and agreed that what is going on in the Vatican is not consistent with her faith or mine.

I referred to Pope Francis considering abolishing celibacy for priest and I joked on another forum site that if he did, multitudes of male and female prostitutes would be out of work! I was officially warned and whacked over the knuckles for it! Some Catholic people are more tolerant about mentioning these things than others!

At least on this forum, Catholics will fire right back at me with contrary views, instead of going bleating to the administration to shut me up.

But I am not anti-Catholic at all, but I am against false doctrine, prayers to Mary, extortion through fraudulent Indulgences, fancy hats and robes, paganised Mass. But then that is my dogmatic religious view based on what many call Sola Scriptura.

This means that if I give it, I have to be able to take it as well!

But I am not anti-Catholic at all, but I am against false doctrine, prayers to Mary, extortion through fraudulent Indulgences, fancy hats and robes, paganised Mass. But then that is my dogmatic religious view based on what many call Sola Scriptura.

Some people have the amazing talent of saying so many crazy, wild, wrong ideas in a singe breath. It has to be a talent.
People look to the Laws of Moses....there is no possibility of following the Mosaic Law today.
People say they believe in the literal interpretation of the scriptures! That would be like nailing jell-o to the wall.
People say they believe in Sola Scriptura! lol They do not know that there have been 45,000 modification, additions, and deletion in the Bible they hold their hand. Sola Scriptura! You do not have it!

People say their religion is not pagan....they stand against paganism. It is like standing in a mud hole, covered in mud and say it is good place to take a bath. Would you even know what paganism is?

With all this crazy juggling of inconsistent thoughts it is a wonder you can walk acrossed the room. And Christianity is full of it......the love of Christianity....love....Christian love....without respect....a belief system where respect is one of the worst sin.

So as it is the Baptists says that Catholic beliefs are full of false doctrine. The Pentecosts says the Baptists have false doctrines. The Methodists say that none of the others know the way to salvation. The Catholics say that no one else is saved. They disagree and say hurtful things to each other....they gossip about one another....this is Christian love?

Satan does a dance and fans his wings and laughs.....Christ's church fractured....the word diluted and in disagreement.
These people can press their noses to the ink of the Bible for all their lives and not get it. Truth is now a matter of opinion. Over 30,000 opinions of what sola scriptura and literal interpretations means...and each one delusional enough to think that their opinion is right. Fortunately for me, I can node my head and love' em. They may not love each other...shoot they may not know what love is....but they believe in Christ and that makes them alright with me.

 

[Paul Christensen]

But I am not anti-Catholic at all, but I am against false doctrine, prayers to Mary, extortion through fraudulent Indulgences, fancy hats and robes, paganised Mass. But then that is my dogmatic religious view based on what many call Sola Scriptura.

Some people have the amazing talent of saying so many crazy, wild, wrong ideas in a singe breath. It has to be a talent.
People look to the Laws of Moses....there is no possibility of following the Mosaic Law today.
People say they believe in the literal interpretation of the scriptures! That would be like nailing jell-o to the wall.
People say they believe in Sola Scriptura! lol They do not know that there have been 45,000 modification, additions, and deletion in the Bible they hold their hand. Sola Scriptura! You do not have it!

People say their religion is not pagan....they stand against paganism. It is like standing in a mud hole, covered in mud and say it is good place to take a bath. Would you even know what paganism is?

With all this crazy juggling of inconsistent thoughts it is a wonder you can walk acrossed the room. And Christianity is full of it......the love of Christianity....love....Christian love....without respect....a belief system where respect is one of the worst sin.

So as it is the Baptists says that Catholic beliefs are full of false doctrine. The Pentecosts says the Baptists have false doctrines. The Methodists say that none of the others know the way to salvation. The Catholics say that no one else is saved. They disagree and say hurtful things to each other....they gossip about one another....this is Christian love?

Satan does a dance and fans his wings and laughs.....Christ's church fractured....the word diluted and in disagreement.
These people can press their noses to the ink of the Bible for all their lives and not get it. Truth is now a matter of opinion. Over 30,000 opinions of what sola scriptura and literal interpretations means...and each one delusional enough to think that their opinion is right. Fortunately for me, I can node my head and love' em. They may not love each other...shoot they may not know what love is....but they believe in Christ and that makes them alright with me.

Yeah...right!

My view is that people either believe the Bible as it is written or not. If the Bible says "the wages of sin is death", then I believe the wages of sin is death. If the Bible says that the soul that sins shall surely die, then I believe that death is the consequence of sin. When the Bible records Jesus saying, "I am the way the truth and the life, and none comes to the Father except by Me", then I know that Jesus is the only way to the Father. Also, when John says, "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him shall receive eternal life" than I know that if I believe in Jesus, I will receive eternal life.

This is what I mean by taking the Bible literally, because those verses have just one interpretation - what they actually say.

Also, I can test myself with the Ten Commandments as the standard of whether I am good or not.
If I have lied any time in my life, then I am a liar
If at any time I have taken what does not belong to me, then I am a thief.
If I have ever taken the Lord's name in vain, then I am a blasphemer.
If I have ever looked at a person with lust or viewed pornography then I have committed adultery in my heart.

Because I have done all these things at different stages in my life, then I am a lying, thieving, blaspheming adulterer at heart. Therefore I am not good, and when I appear without Christ at the judgment, I will be found guilty and sentenced to eternal prison without parole.

So, a type of heresy in the Christian church is easy believerism which says that God has a wonderful plan for our life, and if we ask Jesus to come into our hearts, everything will be rosy and good and we will live a prosperous, happy life. This heresy ignores the need to see our own sinfulness in view of the Ten Commandments, the certainty of future judgment to give accounting for our life, and the need to repent of our sinful lifestyle and to acknowledge that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, and the need to follow after holiness of life (walking in the Spirit and not after the flesh).

This is the reason why I am asking people, "Are you a good person". This is not an Inquisition, but a survey to gauge whether a person is an easy believer or not.

 

[Grailhunter]

My view is that people either believe the Bible as it is written or not.
You do not know how it is written.

Also, I can test myself with the Ten Commandments as the standard of whether I am good or not.
If I have lied any time in my life, then I am a liar
If at any time I have taken what does not belong to me, then I am a thief.
If I have ever taken the Lord's name in vain, then I am a blasphemer.
If I have ever looked at a person with lust or viewed pornography then I have committed adultery in my heart.
Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
And there is a couple dozen other scriptures that Christians are not under the law.

So, a type of heresy in the Christian church is easy believerism which says that God has a wonderful plan for our life, and if we ask Jesus to come into our hearts, everything will be rosy and good and we will live a prosperous, happy life. This heresy ignores the need to see our own sinfulness in view of the Ten Commandments, the certainty of future judgment to give accounting for our life, and the need to repent of our sinful lifestyle and to acknowledge that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, and the need to follow after holiness of life (walking in the Spirit and not after the flesh).

Of course I am not much for OSAS, but then again I believe God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have an above average intelligence and above average power....so if they came up with a plan that required the sacrifice of the Son of God....odds are good that that plan would be largely successful.

This is the reason why I am asking people, "Are you a good person". This is not an Inquisition, but a survey to gauge whether a person is an easy believer or not.
Sounds like demon speak to me. A question that Satan would whisper in your ear. Don't be secure in your salvation!
How do you know that you are saved! whisper whisper Why do you think you are good enough to be save? You know in Hebrews it says that if you continue sinning, there is not possibility of repentance or salvation...just burning fire! God does not like sinners! He sent His Son down to save the good people....not people like you....whisper whisper.

 

[Paul Christensen]

My view is that people either believe the Bible as it is written or not.
You do not know how it is written.

The Scripture says that holy men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20).

Also, I can test myself with the Ten Commandments as the standard of whether I am good or not.
If I have lied any time in my life, then I am a liar
If at any time I have taken what does not belong to me, then I am a thief.
If I have ever taken the Lord's name in vain, then I am a blasphemer.
If I have ever looked at a person with lust or viewed pornography then I have committed adultery in my heart.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
And there is a couple dozen other scriptures that Christians are not under the law.

The first step in receiving Christ is to see yourself as a sinner, deserving of judgment and hell. The Holy Spirit said through John that the person who says he has no sin deceives himself and the truth is not in him (1 John 1:8)

So, a type of heresy in the Christian church is easy believerism which says that God has a wonderful plan for our life, and if we ask Jesus to come into our hearts, everything will be rosy and good and we will live a prosperous, happy life. This heresy ignores the need to see our own sinfulness in view of the Ten Commandments, the certainty of future judgment to give accounting for our life, and the need to repent of our sinful lifestyle and to acknowledge that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, and the need to follow after holiness of life (walking in the Spirit and not after the flesh).

Of course I am not much for OSAS, but then again I believe God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have an above average intelligence and above average power....so if they came up with a plan that required the sacrifice of the Son of God....odds are good that that plan would be largely successful.

Many people adopt Christianity without knowing that they are sinners, and that Jesus died on the cross to take the penalty for their sin on Himself, so that as they turn to Christ as their Saviour, the penalty for their sin has been paid, and the sinner is forgiven and goes free. But if a person adopts Christianity without knowing that they are a sinner and need to be saved on judgment day, then they have missed one of the most important parts of the gospel.

This is the reason why I am asking people, "Are you a good person". This is not an Inquisition, but a survey to gauge whether a person is an easy believer or not.

Sounds like demon speak to me. A question that Satan would whisper in your ear. Don't be secure in your salvation!
How do you know that you are saved! whisper whisper Why do you think you are good enough to be save? You know in Hebrews it says that if you continue sinning, there is not possibility of repentance or salvation...just burning fire! God does not like sinners! He sent His Son down to save the good people....not people like you....whisper whisper.

You know very well that it is not what I am talking about. I don't what you mean by saying that God hates sinners and saves only good people. That sounds like non-Biblical theology to me. God loves sinners, and He came to save people who are not good; so to accept the good news of the gospel we first have to know that we are not good.

How do I know that I am saved? The Word of God says that God so loved me, that He gave His only Son to die on the cross to take the penalty for my badness, which I deserved, and if I believe and trust in Him then I will receive eternal life. So I know I am saved because the Word of God says I am.

How about you?

 

[mjrhealth]

My wife was brought up and educated Catholic and she would belt me over the head with the frying pan if I said anything like that to her!

You should be happy, once upon a time they would use you to warm the house.