Hi! I am new and would like to start a convo :)

[lforrest]

Thank you for your question Iforest, I value your perspective.

Would you agree that God has all-perfect, good morals?

Yes, he doesn't act against his nature which is all good.

 

[aspen]

Hi Mary!

Thank you for your response, it is much appreciated. That is a great question! Before I respond to your reasoning behind asking the question, would you mind if I ask you something? I think that God is the ultimate source of morality and truth. He makes a set of laws for the world to follow, would you agree? If you agree, would sin, then, be the opposite of God's law?

Natalie

Hi Natmoe,

Opposite of God’s law or and an incomplete version? Is evil a lesser form of Good - as in, the same relationship cold has to heat?

 

[Helen]

It seems to me you are suggesting we (humankind) are unable to properly define or interpret what God said. I disagree with you.
<snip>. You are suggesting that teaching of the Truth stopped. When did it stop? It seems you are suggesting God abandoned us in a life boat out in the middle of the ocean. Why would he do that?

I seem to believe the abortion is murder and babies going to heaven were two different conversations....I could be wrong....I was once before in my life ;)

I agree with you...babies and young children go to heaven when they die.

Thank you for your blessings.

Love, Mary

Hey again Mary.
You put words in my mouth!
#1 I never suggested that man could not interpret scripture! ( where did I say that? )
Obviously you would disagree with that, ....so would I!! :)
#2 You also say that I suggest that truth stopped!! ( and Where did I say that? Truth just IS... it does not stop it is a constant. Just as God is, Jesus is the revelation of Truth, he said that HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
How could that stop?
We as mere mortals , and as we stay close to God..we will get more and more light/truth and understanding as we walk in His Light, therefore "I " believe we come into more and more truth as we grow in God. So, where the stopping comes in,I don't know.
#3 You also say that I suggest God has abandoned us in some life boat....
Where did I say that? ( that one I cannot answer because I don't understand it)

Goodness that is three things I seem to have "suggested"...I must be a worse communicator than I thought!
I knew I was not good, and have often said as much...but goodness where do these "suggestions" come from? ...can you quote my statements/suggestions back to me? Thanks.

Ref #1 I believe man under the anointing of God as teacher, can understand scripture. Then you stock answer is always- " But who says, which Denomination has interpreted scripture correctly."

That is unanswerable , because as we all know, each believes they have it right. So my 'stock answer' is always.."We will have to wait until the end to find out on who's side truth falls correctly."
God is not confused. We are. That said Mary, I do not think that we are all as far apart from each other as we may think.
BOL sees great gaps, I do not.
I honestly, with all my heart believe that we are all closer than we think we are. Because ....at the heart of the matter , we all want God's best, and we all want to be pleasing to God.
I agree the landscape does not look the same to us all...we are all at different places...some are walking along the road toward Home confidently, maybe too confidently..some are slowing dragging themselves toward Home. Some are going back to help laggers along the road to Home, some have sat down to rest and need encouragement to keep moving toward Home.
And others have turned around despondent, and no longer walking towards Home.
All of us are on the road...all at different places, all with maybe different understandings...the landscape looks different , but we are closer than we think.
That is my belief.

Bless you...H

 

[pia]

@"ByGrace" ...It isn't often that I disagree with you Helen, but I must here,......NO, it's not you who is being a bad communicator....Thought this 'lady' had her day with all that spreading what seems like deliberate dissension ? There have been a couple of people I have noticed who seems to only write when they can try to pick someone else apart....I'm so sure Jesus would be pleased ( not )..... Your post is very very good...
Have a good day dear Lady and I hope you can get to do what you're hoping for here

 

[Marymog]

Mary,

I agree with you that man is able to interpret scripture. I do not think that the correct way to define scripture has been lost, either. Your question about who exactly defines God's law correctly is a tough one. Because yes, there are many who define God's law (the scriptures) very differently, such as homosexually or abortion being right/wrong. Would you say that a lot or most of confusion from the scriptures is because of misinterpretation of it?

Thank you for your insightful responses,
Natalie

Hi Natalie,

Would you please reply to my post to you (#14) so that we can keep our conversation separate from my conversation with ByGrace? Your going to confuse an old lady like me by responding to my questions via someone else’s post.

 

[Marymog]

Hey again Mary.
You put words in my mouth!
#1 I never suggested that man could not interpret scripture! ( where did I say that? )
Obviously you would disagree with that, ....so would I!! :)
#2 You also say that I suggest that truth stopped!! ( and Where did I say that? Truth just IS... it does not stop it is a constant. Just as God is, Jesus is the revelation of Truth, he said that HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
How could that stop?
We as mere mortals , and as we stay close to God..we will get more and more light/truth and understanding as we walk in His Light, therefore "I " believe we come into more and more truth as we grow in God. So, where the stopping comes in,I don't know.
#3 You also say that I suggest God has abandoned us in some life boat....
Where did I say that? ( that one I cannot answer because I don't understand it)

Goodness that is three things I seem to have "suggested"...I must be a worse communicator than I thought!
I knew I was not good, and have often said as much...but goodness where do these "suggestions" come from? ...can you quote my statements/suggestions back to me? Thanks.

Ref #1 I believe man under the anointing of God as teacher, can understand scripture. Then you stock answer is always- " But who says, which Denomination has interpreted scripture correctly."

Bless you...H

Hi Helen,

I apologize. I should have made my thoughts more clear and said you have left ME with the impression.

You left me with the impression that man could not interpret scripture when you said God has defined sin, but man has redefined sin. To define something is to give it a meaning. I agree with you God defined sin in scripture. According to you man has REDIFINED sin. If we are REDIFINING Gods words we are misinterpreting them. True?

If we, in the year 2018, are redefining Gods words then that means we have stopped teaching The Truth that the Apostles taught. Since the Apostles didn't redefine Gods words and the people the Apostles taught didn't redefine Gods words at some point man started redefining (misinterpreting) Gods words. If we are redefining and misinterpreting Gods words then that means we don't know the Truth of His words. That means God has abandoned us in a life boat. We are still floating (alive/safe) but he's not coming to our rescue to help us figure all this out. Since we no longer know the truth of his words your definition (or redefinition) of sin is just as valid as mine. Clear as mud??? ;)

I have good news for you Helen. We DON'T have to wait until the end to find out on who's side truth falls correctly. Scripture tells us that Jesus started a Church and that The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. I agree with you that Truth just IS... it does not stop it is a constant. I do not believe God is hiding that Truth from us until we die, like you seem to believe. The Church is the protector of Truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it, just like scripture said. It seems to me you are suggesting that He gave us the truth in scripture and he is holding us accountable to that truth and if we don't follow/accept/practice His truth He throws us in eternal damnation BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO REVEAL THAT TRUTH TO US UNTIL WE DIE???? That is when we will find out who knew The Truth? That sounds like a mean God who is playing a joke on us.

You are not a bad communicator. I just read to much into others statements.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

@"ByGrace" ...It isn't often that I disagree with you Helen, but I must here,......NO, it's not you who is being a bad communicator....Thought this 'lady' had her day with all that spreading what seems like deliberate dissension ? There have been a couple of people I have noticed who seems to only write when they can try to pick someone else apart....I'm so sure Jesus would be pleased ( not )..... Your post is very very good...
Have a good day dear Lady and I hope you can get to do what you're hoping for here

Hi Pia,

I apologize to you and others on here if I am leaving you with the impression that I am trying to spread dissension (disagreement that leads to discord).

I am actually trying to do the opposite. I am trying to fulfill the words of scripture and Jesus prayer to our Father in heaven where we all speak as one with one word and so that together we may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I am doing this by asking tough questions when people make remarks that seem OPPOSITE of scripture. Maybe my presentation or my methodology is wrong, but my goal is noble.

Everyone on this site has their own opinions about scripture, what it means and how to be saved. There was dissension on this site LONG before this little old lady got here!!!


Mary

 

[Miss Hepburn]

But why not talk about things of the world and sin as well? Doesn't it connect to God's victories?

Nothing wrong with it :)...but there is a point in our lives when looking
in the rear view mirror doesn't interest us ...because the sunny, vibrant road
we're on is SO gorgeous and thrilling....it's like, for me, "The world, who cares....people that sin, who cares, they'll get over it..."
But, we're older...Grace and I. (I shouldn't presume to speak for Grace, tho!!)

It's like feeling the breeze and the sun at the bow of the ship hitting my face is where it's at,
if that helps understand...;)
And that peace and joy and happiness helps people see the love and possibilities of a godly life, imo.

 

[Helen]

Hi Helen,
You left me with the impression that man could not interpret scripture when you said God has defined sin, but man has redefined sin. To define something is to give it a meaning. I agree with you God defined sin in scripture. According to you man has REDIFINED sin. If we are REDIFINING Gods words we are misinterpreting them. True?

If we, in the year 2018, are redefining Gods words then that means we have stopped teaching The Truth that the Apostles taught. Since the Apostles didn't redefine Gods words and the people the Apostles taught didn't redefine Gods words at some point man started redefining (misinterpreting) Gods words. If we are redefining and misinterpreting Gods words then that means we don't know the Truth of His words. That means God has abandoned us in a life boat. We are still floating (alive/safe) but he's not coming to our rescue to help us figure all this out. Since we no longer know the truth of his words your definition (or redefinition) of sin is just as valid as mine. Clear as mud??? ;)

I have good news for you Helen. We DON'T have to wait until the end to find out on who's side truth falls correctly. Scripture tells us that Jesus started a Church and that The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. I agree with you that Truth just IS... it does not stop it is a constant. I do not believe God is hiding that Truth from us until we die, like you seem to believe. The Church is the protector of Truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it, just like scripture said. It seems to me you are suggesting that He gave us the truth in scripture and he is holding us accountable to that truth and if we don't follow/accept/practice His truth He throws us in eternal damnation BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO REVEAL THAT TRUTH TO US UNTIL WE DIE???? That is when we will find out who knew The Truth? That sounds like a mean God who is playing a joke on us.

You are not a bad communicator. I just read to much into others statements.

Mary

Haha! Maybe that is why we seemingly have argued as much.. I think you see things in my post which are not there...while I on the other hand don't explain myself very well. 'I' know what I mean when I write , and I 'think' the reader does too!
So , in all that, somehow we don't always connect.

No, not 'us', I did not mean that godly man has redefined sin...I mean the man of the world has now redefined sin...every day in the News we hear the godly standards that once governed our lands, courts and school and universities.. 'redefined'. ( So much so, not even recognizable )

Again, I was not meaning the truth of God and His foundations. I do believe we all pretty much come together there, whatever denomination. ( not speaking of JW's or LDS etc) ...I mean fundamental Catholics and Protestants..
*..it is the extra tag-on stuff that I am talking about.-
ie Rapture v no Rapture, Tongue speakers v anti-tongues speakers...
Burning forever in Hell v Redemption for all.
..and all the other stuff these threads have discussed. :)

All those kind of things I believe.. we will all find out at the end..on which side the truth fell.

Okay, did I do any better this time in clarity and explanation of what I was trying to say? ;)

Bless you....H

 

[Marymog]

@"ByGrace" ...It isn't often that I disagree with you Helen, but I must here,......NO, it's not you who is being a bad communicator....Thought this 'lady' had her day with all that spreading what seems like deliberate dissension ? There have been a couple of people I have noticed who seems to only write when they can try to pick someone else apart....I'm so sure Jesus would be pleased ( not )..... Your post is very very good...
Have a good day dear Lady and I hope you can get to do what you're hoping for here

Pia,

You could have sent ByGrace a private message instead you chose to call me out in public therefore I shall publically defend myself.

Since I am not sure what your intent was when you used quotation marks to define me as a 'lady' would you please explain your intent? I took it as an insult.

Are you trying to cause dissension between ByGrace and me by suggesting I am trying to pick her apart? Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite?

Are you suggesting that I am one of those "couple of people" that you have noticed who seems to only write when they can try to pick someone else apart? Have you read EVERTHING I have written? When I have offered my prayers to others on this site, was I picking them apart? The MULTIPLE times I told others I was agreeing with them, was I picking them apart? When I clicked the like button on others post, was I picking them apart?

I would love to stick to the subject at hand instead of responding to personal criticism's.

Wouldn't you Pia?

Love, Mary

 

[Helen]

@pia and @Marymog Listen ladies..please don't fight over this...it really isn't worth it...honestly.
As we know there is way too many unpleasant posts on this site...
myself not at all innocent of such, or of over-reacting and slashing back when provoked. It happens to all of us. ;)
Not worth it.

Hugs to you both... Helen. x

 

[Marymog]

@pia and @Marymog Listen ladies..please don't fight over this...it really isn't worth it...honestly.
As we know there is way too many unpleasant posts on this site...
myself not at all innocent of such, or of over-reacting and slashing back when provoked. It happens to all of us. ;)
Not worth it.

Hugs to you both... Helen. x

Thank you Helen.

No fight here and I don't want a fight. I'm just defending myself, blocking the slaps that have come my way and pointing out the good things I have said. My goal was to never cause dissension but @pia seems to want to cause it between you and me.

I identify with Mother Teresa in many ways: The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway. Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway. In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway....Mother Teresa

 

[natmoe]

Hi Natalie,

Would you please reply to my post to you (#14) so that we can keep our conversation separate from my conversation with ByGrace? Your going to confuse an old lady like me by responding to my questions via someone else’s post.

Hi Mary,

I'm sorry my response got lost within the others :/ Also, this past weekend has been pretty busy so I did not realize that it did. I will respond again :)

I agree with you that man is able to interpret scripture. I do not think that the correct way to define scripture has been lost, either. Your question about who exactly defines God's law correctly is a tough one. Because yes, there are many who define God's law (the scriptures) very differently, such as homosexually or abortion being right/wrong. Would you say that a lot or most of confusion from the scriptures is because of misinterpretation of it?

Thank you for your insightful responses,

Natalie

 

[natmoe]

Yes, he doesn't act against his nature which is all good.

lforest, thanks for your response!

I agree with you! Then wouldn't you say that there is a standard to morals rather than only one person’s belief in what is right and wrong? (In other words, God’s standard)

Natalie

 

[lforrest]

lforest, thanks for your response!

I agree with you! Then wouldn't you say that there is a standard to morals rather than only one person’s belief in what is right and wrong? (In other words, God’s standard)

Natalie

Isaiah 5:20 says:
"Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter."

So this would mean God sets the standard, as otherwise those who redefine good and evil wouldn't be doing wrong.

 

[aspen]

Isaiah 5:20 says:
"Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter."

So this would mean God sets the standard, as otherwise those who redefine good and evil wouldn't be doing wrong.

Take heed Trump supporters

 

[ScottA]

Hi everybody! I am a Christian and a high school student in Wisconsin. In my Apologetics class, we were asked to practice what we have learned and I am interested in engaging in a thoughtful and friendly discussion with anybody about Christianity! I love talking about morality and sin, however I am open to any question you guys have. So please ask! Thanks :)

Welcome Natalie!

Tell us,

“How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Spirit:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’

Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?”

 

[natmoe]

Isaiah 5:20 says:
"Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter."

So this would mean God sets the standard, as otherwise those who redefine good and evil wouldn't be doing wrong.

lforest,

Exactly! So then no one has perfect morals except for God, correct? But, then couldn't we conclude that no one is moral except for God? Even though we follow God's law, we can never follow his moral standards perfectly. We can say that someone is morally right in believing in one of God's law (even if they are not Christians), but no one is moral without God. If we just defined moral as what one person thinks as right or wrong, then we could say that (as an extreme example, haha) if one man thought that murdering his neighbor was right, we would not have the right to impose on his morals or say he has "bad" morals. "Good" moral beliefs, then, would not be a personal belief of right and wrong, but an agreement with God's law. Would you agree?

Natalie

 

[GodsGrace]

lforest,

Exactly! So then no one has perfect morals except for God, correct? But, then couldn't we conclude that no one is moral except for God? Even though we follow God's law, we can never follow his moral standards perfectly. We can say that someone is morally right in believing in one of God's law (even if they are not Christians), but no one is moral without God. If we just defined moral as what one person thinks as right or wrong, then we could say that (as an extreme example, haha) if one man thought that murdering his neighbor was right, we would not have the right to impose on his morals or say he has "bad" morals. "Good" moral beliefs, then, would not be a personal belief of right and wrong, but an agreement with God's law. Would you agree?

Natalie

I gave you a "Like".
I THINK.
If you're saying that God is our moral standard, and is an ABSOLUTE standard, the I agree.
I read a couple of posts up above and got myself confused!!

 

[lforrest]

lforest,

Exactly! So then no one has perfect morals except for God, correct? But, then couldn't we conclude that no one is moral except for God? Even though we follow God's law, we can never follow his moral standards perfectly. We can say that someone is morally right in believing in one of God's law (even if they are not Christians), but no one is moral without God. If we just defined moral as what one person thinks as right or wrong, then we could say that (as an extreme example, haha) if one man thought that murdering his neighbor was right, we would not have the right to impose on his morals or say he has "bad" morals. "Good" moral beliefs, then, would not be a personal belief of right and wrong, but an agreement with God's law. Would you agree?

Natalie

I can agree that God sets the ethical standards we are held to. But I am also aware of biblical examples of how the letter of the law was broken by people, but yet they didn't do wrong. Two examples that come to mind are David and his men eating bread from the temple. The other was Rahab lying about harbouring the spies.

So then what can you say about the ethical standards God imposes on man? Is it adherence to a set of laws or something else?