Homosexuality Being Accepted And Embraced By Christians

[Jim B]

I guess you can't deny people entrance to a building no matter their sex orientation, but if they didn't clean their act up, I would ask them not to attend as they are making a mockery of God's law by just being there, and if they wouldn't leave peacefully I would point them out to all in the congregation, because if they truly want to become Christian they would abstain from their homosexual lifestyle before even entering the building.

Would you also reject adulterers, drunkards, dishonest businesspeople, idolaters, the greedy, the verbally abusive, and swindlers? If Jesus, the disciples, the apostles, and others had your attitude there would be very few Christians. In all probability, you would also have rejected Paul as well.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So who will reach out to the lost? If everyone had your attitude sinners would never hear the Gospel or see it in action (loving your neighbor).

I agree with what the True God says in the scriptures. Psalm 15:1-4 tell us who God considers his friends, therefore those who are his friends I make my close associates. 1 Corinthians 15:33 tells us that bad association spoils useful habits. So those who are a bad influence I don't make them my close associates. 2 Timothy 2:16 tells us to shun empty speeches that violate what is holy. Well these empty speeches come from human beings and they will only go from bad to worst. These people will not be my close associates.
People who are ready to crush one another I don't have as close associates, it's those who love me and sticks to me closer than a brother who are my close associates. Proverbs 18:24
It is those who love the True God who you should long to see and spend time with. These are the ones who will encourage you and help strengthen your faith. Romans 1:11, 12
Those I consider my friends and close associates are those that fear the True God and keeps his commandments Psalm 119:63
There are way too many scriptures that show us that God wants us to be close friends or close associates to those he considers his friends, his people.

 

[Jim B]

I agree with what the True God says in the scriptures. Psalm 15:1-4 tell us who God considers his friends, therefore those who are his friends I make my close associates. 1 Corinthians 15:33 tells us that bad association spoils useful habits. So those who are a bad influence I don't make them my close associates. 2 Timothy 2:16 tells us to shun empty speeches that violate what is holy. Well these empty speeches come from human beings and they will only go from bad to worst. These people will not be my close associates.
People who are ready to crush one another I don't have as close associates, it's those who love me and sticks to me closer than a brother who are my close associates. Proverbs 18:24
It is those who love the True God who you should long to see and spend time with. These are the ones who will encourage you and help strengthen your faith. Romans 1:11, 12
Those I consider my friends and close associates are those that fear the True God and keeps his commandments Psalm 119:63
There are way too many scriptures that show us that God wants us to be close friends or close associates to those he considers his friends, his people.

So much for evangelism! We are told to love our neighbor as ourselves, not isolate ourselves and love only those who love us. Remember that the person who responded to the hurt Jew in the "parable of the Good Samaritan" was a despised foreigner; the "pious" Jews passed by the hurt man and did nothing.

It's a good thing that Jesus had a different attitude, even though He was criticized by the Pharisees. He did exactly what you're saying you won't do.

 

[Cassandra]

@BARNEY BRIGHT Did anyone say anything about close associates? no one asked you to hang around with an unbeliever. But you can help them perhaps get back right with God. We are talking about helping a fellow human with their salvation. You should have love for your fellow man as a Christian.

Matt 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?"

 

[Jim B]

Did anyone say anything about close associates? no one asked you to hang around with an unbeliever. But you can help them perhaps get back right with God. We are talking about helping a fellow human with their salvation. You should have love for your fellow man as a Christian.

Matt 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?"

I assume that your post is about what Barney Bright wrote, not my response to him. I agree with you but disagree with him.

 

[Christ4Me]

So much for evangelism! We are told to love our neighbor as ourselves, not isolate ourselves and love only those who love us. Remember that the person who responded to the hurt Jew in the "parable of the Good Samaritan" was a despised foreigner; the "pious" Jews passed by the hurt man and did nothing.

It's a good thing that Jesus had a different attitude, even though He was criticized by the Pharisees. He did exactly what you're saying you won't do.

Loving thy neighbor as thyself would involve helping any one in trouble as a Good Samaritan but having fellowship with sinners engaging in their sins is not what Jesus was doing in hanging out with them. He would not get drunk with them or do anything that is sin with them. Neither should we.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That's not very Christian behavior. We are told to love our neighbor as ourselves, not hand them over to Satan. If Jesus ate and drank with the worst sinners then we have model behavior to follow. It was the Pharisees who attacked Jesus for his association with undesirables.

Those who are disfellowshipped are those who are baptized individuals who have began living contrary to the standards of living that the scriptures say a Christian is to live. If God tells you not to steal, you don't steal. If God tells a married person they are not to be having affairs then you don't have affairs because when a married person has an affair, that's adultery. Those who are Christians and practice these things will be disfellowshipped if needed, it's really up to them on whether they want to stop doing what is wrong that they are doing.

Based on the principles of the Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian Greek Scriptures by command and precedent authorize expulsion, or disfellowshipping, from the Christian congregation. By exercising this God-given authority, the congregation keeps itself clean and in good standing before God. The apostle Paul, with the authority vested in him, ordered the expulsion of an incestuous fornicator who had taken his father’s wife. (1Co 5:5, 11, 13) He also exercised disfellowshipping authority against Hymenaeus and Alexander. (1Ti 1:19, 20)

Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Co 5:9-13; 6:9, 10; Tit 3:10, 11; Re 21:8)
The Christian congregation is also admonished by Scripture to stop socializing with those who are disorderly and not walking correctly but who are not deemed deserving of disfellowshipping yet. Paul wrote the Thessalonian congregation concerning such: “Stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.”—2Th 3:6, 11, 13-15.

However, regarding any who were Christians but later reject the Christian congregation or were expelled from it, the apostle Paul commanded: “Quit mixing in company with” such a one; and the apostle John wrote: “Never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—1Co 5:11; 2Jo 9, 10.

Those who have been expelled may be received back into the congregation if they manifest sincere repentance. (2Co 2:5-8) This also is a protection to the congregation, preventing it from being overreached by Satan in swinging from condoning wrongdoing to the other extreme, becoming harsh and unforgiving.—2Co 2:10,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

QUOTE="Cassandra, post: 1226187, member: 13210"]@BARNEY BRIGHT Did anyone say anything about close associates? no one asked you to hang around with an unbeliever. But you can help them perhaps get back right with God. We are talking about helping a fellow human with their salvation. You should have love for your fellow man as a Christian.

Matt 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?"[/QUOTE]

As I said anyone is allowed to come to the meetings that means any unbeliever. They are not ignored when they come to the meetings and those Christians who are there will encourage them to study the scriptures in the hopes they will come to be believers. What I'm saying about unbelievers is that if they choose not to study the scriptures a true Christian will not make them close associates as their spiritual brother and sisters are. Those unbelievers who have chosen not to study the scriptures but continue to come to the meetings should not be as close friends to you as those who are fellow believers those who are your spiritual brothers and sisters. Fellow believers you have more love for, than an unbeliever, therefore fellow believers are your closest friends not unbelievers.
If you make someone who is a bad influence whether it be a believer or unbeliever a close associate, like your best best friend then you're ignoring scripture that tells you not to associate with such individuals as though they are your best friends. one scripture says: Bad association spoils useful habits.(1Corinthians 15:33) this means that God who inspired this to be written down for our instruction is telling us he doesn't want us to associate with those who are a bad influence. It doesn't matter if they are a fellow believer or an unbeliever.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So who will reach out to the lost? If everyone had your attitude sinners would never hear the Gospel or see it in action (loving your neighbor).

We go out and preach to all unbelievers about the Messianic kingdom that Jesus Christ is king of. How they choose to respond to that message is their choice. So they hear the good news of the kingdom.

 

[Cassandra]

Are your disfellowshipped members preached to by any witnesses? I nowhere have asked you, and I don't think Jim has either, to recognize them as close associates. That is not what is being discussed. We are talking about those who have erred. Will you go speak to the lost sheep?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Are your disfellowshipped members preached to by any witnesses? I nowhere have asked you, and I don't think Jim has either, to recognize them as close associates. That is not what is being discussed. We are talking about those who have erred. Will you go speak to the lost sheep?

That's what the elders are for. They from time to time speak with those who are disfellowshipped to see if they are repentant of the sins they were disfellowshipped for and ready to live again by the standards that God requires for his people. Many are not repentant but some are. The elders are the only ones who can speak with them.

 

[JohnPaul]

So you know someone's heart? I was a serious, committed atheist until Jesus saved me and healed me. If a congregation can't welcome all, regardless of their attitude, I question their authenticity.

It's in the Bible homosexuality is a sin and it even says they should be put to death, if they show no willingness to change their sinful ways such as abstaining from their sinful homosexual acts then they should be cast out.

What good is it going to do the church and its congregation if they allow unrepentant homosexuals to be a part of their fold?

 

[JohnPaul]

Would you also reject adulterers, drunkards, dishonest businesspeople, idolaters, the greedy, the verbally abusive, and swindlers? If Jesus, the disciples, the apostles, and others had your attitude there would be very few Christians. In all probability, you would also have rejected Paul as well.

Some sins are bigger than others.

 

[JohnPaul]

@BARNEY BRIGHT Did anyone say anything about close associates? no one asked you to hang around with an unbeliever. But you can help them perhaps get back right with God. We are talking about helping a fellow human with their salvation. You should have love for your fellow man as a Christian.

Matt 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?"

I think we are talking about giving those homosexuals a chance to change their ways, not totally banning them from the Church if they truly want to change their ways, but if they don't want to change their ways and continue with their homosexuality, then they are showing they don't want to be helped or change their ways, therefore the only solution is to banish them from the congregation, for they and those who continue to allow them to make a mockery of God's law are not faithful to God and his word and should be excluded.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

It's in the Bible homosexuality is a sin and it even says they should be put to death, if they show no willingness to change their sinful ways such as abstaining from their sinful homosexual acts then they should be cast out.

What good is it going to do the church and its congregation if they allow unrepentant homosexuals to be a part of their fold?

If these homosexuals are not baptized members of the church then they're not part of the churches fold. Homosexuals can't be baptized members of the fold until they repent and stop practicing homosexuality. It's only members of the fold, meaning baptized members of the church that are to be disfellowshipped or cast out of the church. Why would anyone baptize practicing homosexuals. Also we don't live by the law covenant today so homosexuals are not to be put to death. Treating homosexuals abusively whether physically or emotionally isn't right either.

 

[Nancy]

I guess you can't deny people entrance to a building no matter their sex orientation, but if they didn't clean their act up, I would ask them not to attend as they are making a mockery of God's law by just being there, and if they wouldn't leave peacefully I would point them out to all in the congregation, because if they truly want to become Christian they would abstain from their homosexual lifestyle before even entering the building.

Did Jesus nastily tell all those filthy gentiles, the prostitutes, whoremongers, drunks etc, etc to GET OUT until they cleaned up their act?? I thought it was Christ IN us and the holy Spirit IN US that did the cleaning up. Or, would you rather get the glory for "doing it yourself"? Your hatred is showing glaringly, and please spare me the "we love the sinner, but hate the sin" cop out. Jesus ate with sinners, He CAME for sinners so, if everyone "cleaned up their act", there would be NO NEED for Christ. Have you reached perfection? Yo have not. Do you no longer need Christ?? Judgers will judge things they have zero clue about and puff their chests out while doing it. It's folks like yourself that keep MANY away from the church, and you and the rest WILL be held accountable for how many you turned away from The Lord with your arrogant, self righteous attitude. You do not like this post? Too bad.

They are allowed to sit anywhere in the congregation. What it means when a person who is disfellowshipped and he/she comes to the meetings is that no baptized Christian will shake his/her hand or say a greeting to him/her they won't even speak to them. Also if a baptized Christian comes across a disfellowshipped person outside the meetings out in everyday life, they will not speak with them or say a greeting to them they won't even eat a meal with them.

If you were to be judge instead of God, heaven would be empty.

"Shunning"....like the Amish. Form of abuse IMHO. Either we forgive or we do not. And why would someone who was disfellowshipped even want to return to that treatment. Just do what the bible tells them and, put them out for Satan to kill the body, so the soul will be saved?

 

[amadeus]

Did Jesus nastily tell all those filthy gentiles, the prostitutes, whoremongers, drunks etc, etc to GET OUT until they cleaned up their act?? I thought it was Christ IN us and the holy Spirit IN US that did the cleaning up. Or, would you rather get the glory for "doing it yourself"? Your hatred is showing glaringly, and please spare me the "we love the sinner, but hate the sin" cop out. Jesus ate with sinners, He CAME for sinners so, if everyone "cleaned up their act", there would be NO NEED for Christ. Have you reached perfection? Yo have not. Do you no longer need Christ?? Judgers will judge things they have zero clue about and puff their chests out while doing it. It's folks like yourself that keep MANY away from the church, and you and the rest WILL be held accountable for how many you turned away from The Lord with your arrogant, self righteous attitude. You do not like this post? Too bad.



If you were to be judge instead of God, heaven would be empty.

"Shunning"....like the Amish. Form of abuse IMHO. Either we forgive or we do not. And why would someone who was disfellowshipped even want to return to that treatment. Just do what the bible tells them and, put them out for Satan to kill the body, so the soul will be saved?

Keep on preaching, sister!

"And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Matt 9:11-13

 

[JohnPaul]

Did Jesus nastily tell all those filthy gentiles, the prostitutes, whoremongers, drunks etc, etc to GET OUT until they cleaned up their act?? I thought it was Christ IN us and the holy Spirit IN US that did the cleaning up. Or, would you rather get the glory for "doing it yourself"? Your hatred is showing glaringly, and please spare me the "we love the sinner, but hate the sin" cop out. Jesus ate with sinners, He CAME for sinners so, if everyone "cleaned up their act", there would be NO NEED for Christ. Have you reached perfection? Yo have not. Do you no longer need Christ?? Judgers will judge things they have zero clue about and puff their chests out while doing it. It's folks like yourself that keep MANY away from the church, and you and the rest WILL be held accountable for how many you turned away from The Lord with your arrogant, self righteous attitude. You do not like this post? Too bad.



If you were to be judge instead of God, heaven would be empty.

"Shunning"....like the Amish. Form of abuse IMHO. Either we forgive or we do not. And why would someone who was disfellowshipped even want to return to that treatment. Just do what the bible tells them and, put them out for Satan to kill the body, so the soul will be saved?

I’m not trying to spare you of anything I never said love the sinner and hate the sin, that’s all BS, pardon my expression.

In the Bible it says in the book of Leviticus, if a man layeth down with another man as he would a woman, may he be put to death and the blood of his own head be put on his hands, same goes for a woman.

By embracing these people you are promoting homosexuality, which is a grave sin.

I will defend God’s law and will die for it, cast these sinners out!

 

[JohnPaul]

If these homosexuals are not baptized members of the church then they're not part of the churches fold. Homosexuals can't be baptized members of the fold until they repent and stop practicing homosexuality. It's only members of the fold, meaning baptized members of the church that are to be disfellowshipped or cast out of the church. Why would anyone baptize practicing homosexuals. Also we don't live by the law covenant today so homosexuals are not to be put to death. Treating homosexuals abusively whether physically or emotionally isn't right either.

Then cast them out, be done with these mortal sinners.

 

[amadeus]

I’m not trying to spare you of anything I never said love the sinner and hate the sin, that’s all BS, pardon my expression.

In the Bible it says in the book of Leviticus, if a man layeth down with another man as he would a woman, may he be put to death and the blood of his own head be put on his hands, same goes for a woman.

By embracing these people you are promoting homosexuality, which is a grave sin.

I will defend God’s law and will die for it, cast these sinners out!

Who now among us is not a sinner, unless he has overcome all the world of sin and sinful ways as did Jesus?

Are we also casting out everyone else sitting in the pew regularly known to be committing any other sin? God is no respecter of persons. Are we? What of these things hated by God?

"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." Prov. 6:16-19

How often we are also casting out anyone guilty of those things?