HOMOSEXUALITY REVISITED

[aspen]

Gambling is also being legalized all over the country and the Internet, but we do not single out gamblers. The crazy thing about gambling is that casinos are actually designed to exploit people with gambling addiction. Alcohol is being made available in grocery stores and mini markets in states that used to regulate it - all the better to exploit the alcoholic. Yet, drunkeness is not even considered a sin....

CS Lewis was right - we single out homosexuals because it is the only sin that does not tempt the majority of people in the world. I think we are going to be judged on how we treated homosexuals and we should think of their sin as a test for our ability to love people despite their sin. Homosexuals are the lepers of today.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Gambling is also being legalized all over the country and the Internet, but we do not single out gamblers. The crazy thing about gambling is that casinos are actually designed to exploit people with gambling addiction. Alcohol is being made available in grocery stores and mini markets in states that used to regulate it - all the better to exploit the alcoholic. Yet, drunkeness is not even considered a sin....

CS Lewis was right - we single out homosexuals because it is the only sin that does not tempt the majority of people in the world. I think we are going to be judged on how we treated homosexuals and we should think of their sin as a test for our ability to love people despite their sin. Homosexuals are the lepers of today.

I would agree except that the trend is moving toward more acceptance of homosexuality and less judgment of deviant lifestyles. We don't preach hellfire and we don't call sin for what it is. It isn't the people condemning homosexuality that are the problem, it's the people who no longer do it.

 

[Dodo_David]

No, but I have had plenty of debates with atheists.

A Christian wouldn't have dodged the question. A Christian would have defined himself as such if there was any doubt.

Huh? I didn't dodge any question. I was asked if I am an atheist, and I said, "No."

What we are debating is what method of evangelism works when dealing with spiritually-dead homosexuals.
We agree on what the destination should be, but we disagree on the route that should be taken.

 

[Selene]

Gambling is also being legalized all over the country and the Internet, but we do not single out gamblers. The crazy thing about gambling is that casinos are actually designed to exploit people with gambling addiction. Alcohol is being made available in grocery stores and mini markets in states that used to regulate it - all the better to exploit the alcoholic. Yet, drunkeness is not even considered a sin....

CS Lewis was right - we single out homosexuals because it is the only sin that does not tempt the majority of people in the world. I think we are going to be judged on how we treated homosexuals and we should think of their sin as a test for our ability to love people despite their sin. Homosexuals are the lepers of today.

From what I understand, gambling is not considered a sin. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against in jobs, housing, education, etc. The problem I see is that the gay activists is trying to enforce the belief that the ACT of homosexuality is normal and not a sin.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

From what I understand, gambling is not considered a sin.

I think it is. I think its like the Rich Man living sumptuously while a beggar is at his gate. If we have enough money to throw away gambling, we have enough money to take better care of our families and ensure financial stability or we have enough money to give to charity where it can accomplish God's work. The CCC says much the same:
2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

In short, better uses for our money than gambling.

 

[Selene]

I think it is. I think its like the Rich Man living sumptuously while a beggar is at his gate. If we have enough money to throw away gambling, we have enough money to take better care of our families and ensure financial stability or we have enough money to give to charity where it can accomplish God's work. The CCC says much the same:
2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

In short, better uses for our money than gambling.

I agree. There are better uses for money than gambling, and too much gambling can even turn a person into an addict.

 

[Dodo_David]

From what I understand, gambling is not considered a sin. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against in jobs, housing, education, etc. The problem I see is that the gay activists is trying to enforce the belief that the ACT of homosexuality is normal and not a sin.

Sure, we can stand firm and declare that God disapproves of sex between two members of the same gender, which is what I have been doing, and some people have ridiculed me for doing so.

 

[aspen]

Gambling is most certainly a sin - it is exploitation of another person for personal gain.

As far as homosexuality becoming more acceptable in the world - I think people are just tired of the debate. If God is not part of people's moral code, there is zero reason to believe it is wrong. Also, many Christians are becoming aware of the abuses against homosexual people and do not believe they should be singled out, but instead, protected from people who want to marginalized them. Personal sin is between an individual and God - the state should not be involved unless it is for protecting the individual or society.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Gambling is most certainly a sin - it is exploitation of another person for personal gain.

As far as homosexuality becoming more acceptable in the world - I think people are just tired of the debate. If God is not part of people's moral code, there is zero reason to believe it is wrong. Also, many Christians are becoming aware of the abuses against homosexual people and do not believe they should be singled out, but instead, protected from people who want to marginalized them. Personal sin is between an individual and God - the state should not be involved unless it is for protecting the individual or society.

The state should not be involved because we in America live in a constitutional republic, not a theocracy. But that doesn't mean that people's sin doesn't sicken the entire society, because it does. And the debate and incessant onslaught against Christian teaching on homosexuality is precisely intended to wear us down and intimidate us into silence. We in the Catholic Church are the only ones who still maintain orthodoxy on the use of contraceptives. The Protestants used to be allies with us, but began to abandon their opposition beginning with the Anglican Lambeth Conference of 1930. We warned about the moral breakdown of society and the unintended consequences of turning the purpose of sex to materialist fulfillment instead of creating a family. Everything we forewarned came to pass. These social sins really do have consequences well beyond the individual perpetrators and homosexuality will be no different.

 

[Dodo_David]

We in the Catholic Church are the only ones who still maintain orthodoxy on the use of contraceptives.

That is a matter of opinion.

I see nothing in the Bible that prohibits a married couple from using birth control.

In contrast, the Bible clearly warns us that God disapproves of sex between two people of the same gender.

 

[Selene]

That is a matter of opinion.

I see nothing in the Bible that prohibits a married couple from using birth control.

In contrast, the Bible clearly warns us that God disapproves of sex between two people of the same gender.

It is found in Genesis. God's first command to Adam and Eve is to be fruitful and multiply.....meaning that they must be "open to life." Children are blessings from God. Oral contraceptives and birth control is contrary to God's very first command to be "open to life" and some birth controls are similar to abortion as they prevent a fertilized egg from attaching itself to the womb for proper growth.

Psalms 127:3-5 Children are a heritage from the LORD, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their opponents in court.

I agree that having sex of someone of the same gender is clearly frowned upon in the Bible.

 

[Dodo_David]

It is found in Genesis. God's first command to Adam and Eve is to be fruitful and multiply.....meaning that they must be "open to life." Children are blessings from God. Oral contraceptives and birth control is contrary to God's very first command to be "open to life" and some birth controls are similar to abortion as they prevent a fertilized egg from attaching itself to the womb for proper growth.

Psalms 127:3-5 Children are a heritage from the LORD, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their opponents in court.

I agree that having sex of someone of the same gender is clearly frowned upon in the Bible.

Although I can't prevent someone from taking a verse in Genesis out of context, I can recognize a verse that has been taken out of context, such as the part about God telling Adam and Eve to produce children.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Although I can't prevent someone from taking a verse in Genesis out of context, I can recognize a verse that has been taken out of context, such as the part about God telling Adam and Eve to produce children.

How is that out of context?

 

[Dodo_David]

God's instruction to Adam and Eve to produce children was an instruction to Adam and Eve.
Nowhere does the Bible say that God's instruction to Adam and Eve was a universal commandment applicable to people living today.

Anyway, we are now straying off-topic.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

God's instruction to Adam and Eve to produce children was an instruction to Adam and Eve.
Nowhere does the Bible say that God's instruction to Adam and Eve was a universal commandment applicable to people living today.

Anyway, we are now straying off-topic.

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. He wasn't just talking to them.

 

[Dodo_David]

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. He wasn't just talking to them.

The last time that I checked, Adam and Eve accomplished what God told them to do.
The Earth is filled.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

The last time that I checked, Adam and Eve accomplished what God told them to do.
The Earth is filled.

Not by them. We're being just a tad silly now, aren't we?
Not to mention that God also thrice gave this commandment to Noah and his sons in Genesis chapter 9.

 

[Dodo_David]

Not by them. We're being just a tad silly now, aren't we?

Not to mention that God also thrice gave this commandment to Noah and his sons in Genesis chapter 9.

God commanded Noah to build an Ark, but does God require every person alive today to build an Ark?

The fact that God gave a specific commandment to a specific person in ancient times does not necessarily imply that the commandment pertains to all people living today.

Anyway, we are way off topic.

 

[Selene]

God commanded Noah to build an Ark, but does God require every person alive today to build an Ark?

The fact that God gave a specific commandment to a specific person in ancient times does not necessarily imply that the commandment pertains to all people living today.

Anyway, we are way off topic.

The Ark is a symbol for the Church. The ark is a ship, which is an ancient Christian symbol. It is the Church tossed on the sea of disbelief, worldliness, and persecution but finally reaching safe harbor with its cargo of human souls. Part of the imagery comes from the ark saving Noah's family during the Flood (1 Peter 3:20-21) and Jesus protecting the Peter's boat and the apostles on the stormy Sea of Galilee (Mark 4:35-41).

So, yes, we are supposed to build arks (Churches - which is the assembly of God's family).

 

[Rex]

The Ark is a symbol for the Church. The ark is a ship, which is an ancient Christian symbol. It is the Church tossed on the sea of disbelief, worldliness, and persecution but finally reaching safe harbor with its cargo of human souls. Part of the imagery comes from the ark saving Noah's family during the Flood (1 Peter 3:20-21) and Jesus protecting the Peter's boat and the apostles on the stormy Sea of Galilee (Mark 4:35-41).

So, yes, we are supposed to build arks (Churches - which is the assembly of God's family).

The Ark in both the flood and in the temple are symbols of God, not a church.
But of course your church believes itself to be God so I understand the mix up