Homosexuality

[Vashti]

That is good scriptures, however God will forgive anyone who ask....With your last breath if you truly repent of your sins, He will open His arms and say ..Welcome home...Honestly, do some actually think that Jesus died for only a few? He die for ALL...every last person on this earth...that includes the person next door, that beats his kids or kills the neighbor...His death was so all might live, not just a few

it's true, you're right. I have not spoken with the Lord died for a few. But I do not see this attitude in the Bible that do what you want, and then, with your last breath you truly repent.
Do you watch what's happening in the world? Disasters, natural disasters - many people did not have time to think. Not everyone has the comfort like crucified bendit - he had time to repent.

I am not saying that you have such an attitude. But I want to draw your attention, what encourages the Scriptures - to holiness and we should also be encouraged each other.
And if someone already knows and believes that the Lord died for his sin and sinning on farther, the farther it will be harder for him to repent.

 

[aspen]

Um......savlvation is a renewing of the mind, heart and will - it requires justification and sanctification. The process takes different lengths of time based on the individual. The thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus was transformed quickly - I trust that Jesus will give everyone the amount of time they require to be redeemed. Remember, God wants to be in relationship with us - He is not trying to trick us out of salvation.

 

[biggandyy]

Does that bother you? :blink:

Matthew 16:25
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

The idea of being 'really saved' is once again based on the false premise that we somehow are or aren't. Being 'saved' cannot be a status. I was saved means I was rescued... But that does not speak for the present of the future.

Again, the false idea of a 'once done deal' is on display. Rather God seeks to save us to the uttermost.

What is false about God not losing one of those whom He saves?

 

[Prentis]

Um......savlvation is a renewing of the mind, heart and will - it requires justification and sanctification. The process takes different lengths of time based on the individual. The thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus was transformed quickly - I trust that Jesus will give everyone the amount of time they require to be redeemed. Remember, God wants to be in relationship with us - He is not trying to trick us out of salvation.

Good post!

There are also different levels of attaining, as Paul says in Philippians 3. If we are faithful at the level we have attained, we will receive the appropriate reward. The more time God gives us, and the more grace he gives us, and the more blessings, the further we are expected to go, and the more we are expected to grow.

God loves all and wishes for all to be saved. If some cannot go far, but will go a bit, and be faithful with that bit, it pleases God to give them this, that atleast they might be saved, and know him.

We are judged according to what we do with what is given us.

What is false about God not losing one of those whom He saves?

What is false about people rebelling against God, though he saved them, like the Israelites did in the desert?

None of those whom are his will be snatched out of his hands... That speaks of his faithfulness... But some will walk out, because they are unfaithful. God protects us, chastises us, and helps us, that we might learn to be faithful and remain in him.

He does go after the sheep that runs away. But if we choose not to bear fruit, not to follow, to remain stubborn, to resist the work of the Spirit, God will not endure with us forever, we will be cast out.

 

[Vashti]

Um......savlvation is a renewing of the mind, heart and will - it requires justification and sanctification. The process takes different lengths of time based on the individual. The thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus was transformed quickly - I trust that Jesus will give everyone the amount of time they require to be redeemed. Remember, God wants to be in relationship with us - He is not trying to trick us out of salvation.

Does this mean we have no responsibility? Because God does everything himself - and we can lie down for top stomach?

God does not want to trick us, but we often trick ourselves ...

 

[aspen]

Does this mean we have no responsibility? Because God does everything himself - and we can lie down for top stomach?

God does not want to trick us, but we often trick ourselves ...

All relationships require the participation of both parties. We are called to practice our sanctification by loving God and our neighbors through obedience and service. Salvation is not the goal of redemption - transformation is the race Paul is encouraging us to run to win.

 

[Vashti]

All relationships require the participation of both parties. We are called to practice our sanctification by loving God and our neighbors through obedience and service. Salvation is not the goal of redemption - transformation is the race Paul is encouraging us to run to win.

consent, but I understood it - "salvation is not the goal of redemption", but ok, maybe because of the language

 

[FHII]

No.... Vashti... Aspen is wrong.

 

[aspen]

No.... Vashti... Aspen is wrong.

do you mind elaborating?

 

[FHII]

No, I don't mind. Doesn't mean I will.

 

[biggandyy]

har har har har!

 

[Vengle]

No, salvation is instantaneous, it is sanctification that is a process.

I think this comment is appropriate here:

It is not surprising that you feel that way. Before you can understand anything else you must first correctly define the meaning of grace. Otherwise you are building on a faulty foundation. And your definition of grace is wrong because you see it as meaning "saved". But that should not be difficult for you to see that it is obviously wrong because you also know that we are saved by grace. You merely have failed to think that through.

It is talked about two ways in the NT. Sometimes it talks about grace as allowing us to participate in a process of walking toward salvation (a process that we being dead in our sins could not have initiated and therefore it had to come of grace). At other times we are spoken of as though already saved. Now you are smart enough to know that seems like a contradiction. And your faith in God should tell you that there is no contradiction with God. That then should compell you to find the answer which eliminates that contradiction.

I will detail what you need to look for but you must be willing to see it or it is just wind being blown past you.

How can on one hand we be told that we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling and yet on the other hand be told we are saved?

The answer is that these are two different perspectives. Now show your self ready to listen as I present those perspectives to you.

We find the answer to what is meant when it speaks as though we are already saved in the illustrations Jesus gave us about rescuing lost sheep. We see that in this particular perspective we are saved insofar as the capableness of the one doing the saving. We can picture it as that lamb being carried in Jesus' arms. We know that lamb is saved from the moment Jesus picks it up because Jesus is capable of saving it.

In the perspective of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12) we are not looking at the qualifications of the savior but at the willingness of the lamb not to fight and resist being in the savior's arms.

Until a person cares enough about truth to let their self be found wrong (or, emphatically, "a liar"), they are doomed to remain blind to the truth. That is a weighty responsibility which rests on each of us.

 

[biggandyy]

I think this comment is appropriate here:

It is not surprising that you feel that way. Before you can understand anything else you must first correctly define the meaning of grace. Otherwise you are building on a faulty foundation. And your definition of grace is wrong because you see it as meaning "saved". But that should not be difficult for you to see that it is obviously wrong because you also know that we are saved by grace. You merely have failed to think that through.

And how did you exactly discern my knowledge of Grace? By what I've written here or your own preconclusions of what you believe others think?

Maybe you should read some of my writings before you declare me ignorant of your special knowledge...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/14654-could-god-save-everybody-if-he-wanted-to/page__st__30

Not talking about Grace per say, but something very closely related...

 

[Vengle]

And how did you exactly discern my knowledge of Grace? By what I've written here or your own preconclusions of what you believe others think?

Maybe you should read some of my writings before you declare me ignorant of your special knowledge...

http://www.christian...to/page__st__30

Not talking about Grace per say, but something very closely related...

Yes, I have observed your comments on that thread previously. I am aware of what the evidence suggests you to believe even as Prentis is in his replies to you.

Did you pay attention to the wisdom found in Vashti's post or did it slide by you? I thought it quite appropriate that Vashti slipped that in among your conversations with Prentis just a few posts ago.

it's true, you're right. I have not spoken with the Lord died for a few. But I do not see this attitude in the Bible that do what you want, and then, with your last breath you truly repent.
Do you watch what's happening in the world? Disasters, natural disasters - many people did not have time to think. Not everyone has the comfort like crucified bendit - he had time to repent.

I am not saying that you have such an attitude. But I want to draw your attention, what encourages the Scriptures - to holiness and we should also be encouraged each other.
And if someone already knows and believes that the Lord died for his sin and sinning on farther, the farther it will be harder for him to repent.

This work of preparing the way of the Lord in one's own heart, as John the Baptist admonished, comes difficult for many. But, believe it or not, it becomes easy to those that God blesses for their having had the courage to tackle it.

Can you fathom how what Vashti wrote relates to what we have been discussing?

Why is Vashti able to see what he sees? The answer is the same for all who do see. It is 1 John 4:18

We are actually free of fear and able to see what you say because we let go of what we believe in ourselves just long enough to step into your shoes and see it your way. That is how we test what you say.

1 John 4:4 is based on that principle.

Neither is what we believe based upon pride. Therefore we are willing to be found liars and let God be found true.

 

[goodshepard55]

Ahhh...Vengle...I do think that Vashti was actually talking to me...I have a God of mercy, love and grace Vashti..I have a God that does not turn the sinner away, when they repent, whether they be 10, 50 or dying...The Word says...That ALL who believe in Him has every lasting life...Some do not believe until they are staring death in the face, then they call on the One True God...Go to work in a hospital...see what I am talking about....Love you darling and enjoying your post...

 

[Vengle]

Ahhh...Vengle...I do think that Vashti was actually talking to me...I have a God of mercy, love and grace Vashti..I have a God that does not turn the sinner away, when they repent, whether they be 10, 50 or dying...The Word says...That ALL who believe in Him has every lasting life...Some do not believe until they are staring death in the face, then they call on the One True God...Go to work in a hospital...see what I am talking about....Love you darling and enjoying your post...

We know that he was talking to you for a certainty.

But what he said runs deeper.

He pointed out how you need to let go of seeing only what you are seeing and add something more to it.

You need to see that the thing you are saying cannot be blanketly true as there are many who die having had no opportunity to rethink their stand. Therefore that evidence suggests that what you believe is at best half truth.

And that is a thought worthy of consideration.

That is what my post #632 also is showing. Do not become so elated in your knowledge that you trap yourself into seeing only it. When we tend to do that we get caught into a cycle of nothing but arguing and never really seeing or really trying to understand what the other is saying.

 

[goodshepard55]

Naw...what I believe is my belief...I thank you for caring enough to caution me...I also know that as you say some have no chance to rethink or hear the truth...However, I do believe that Jesus is there with them...now I know that, there is no proof in the Word, except where He descended and set the captives free...I do know He created us all, and does not want any to perish...I trust Him enough and know that nothing is impossible for Him to do...so darling I will hang on to my belief until Jesus tells me different...for you see He walks with me and with you, He is everywhere, and nothing is hidden from Him....He is in the world as the world is in Him, with every breath I take, I breath in Jesus....with every breath I release I breath out Jesus...For He is in ALL things and all things are in Him

 

[aspen]

God doesnt let people in on technicalities....we are not going to sneak into heaven........He will transform our whole beings when we receive His invitation to love. We need to pick up our cross and chose love often throughout our lives...Christ wants to start our loving relationship here on Earth. Yes, this is about a relationship, not a legal contract. We are not going to sue our way into Heaven, either. Christ will tranform and redeem us how He choses and when He choses - we are not in control of the process, nor can we understand it completely.

The good news is that He wants to be in relationship with us. No need to sit around worrying about Hell and who may be going there based on some formula or mechanism.......it is about the relationship so get to loving!

 

[Vengle]

Naw...what I believe is my belief...I thank you for caring enough to caution me...I also know that as you say some have no chance to rethink or hear the truth...However, I do believe that Jesus is there with them...now I know that, there is no proof in the Word, except where He descended and set the captives free...I do know He created us all, and does not want any to perish...I trust Him enough and know that nothing is impossible for Him to do...so darling I will hang on to my belief until Jesus tells me different...for you see He walks with me and with you, He is everywhere, and nothing is hidden from Him....He is in the world as the world is in Him, with every breath I take, I breath in Jesus....with every breath I release I breath out Jesus...For He is in ALL things and all things are in Him

Do you not see that is as if you already know completely? How will we grow any longer if we have that attitude?

So you might say you depend upon God's Spirit for that growth. But can you not see that you could well be like the drowning man whom God sent help through men three times to but the man said he would pass on their help because he was certain God would rescue him?

If we fail to give the words of others the consideration they deserve we may well find in the finally that we passed on the messenger of God.

 

[aspen]

Salvation is about transformation and redemption, not about how much knowledge we have.