Homosexuality

[Fire-7]

-- Fire-7, please do us all a favor and get a grip.

Ducky's response to FHII was not only measured and non-confrontational, but spot on scripturally accurate

The only way sin - ANY sin - is covered by Grace, is when that person is willing to repent and turn away from that sin.

There was nothing in that statement to warrant a response like you posted.

Your bipolar response where you say "I don't know you so I can't judge you" followed shorty by "If you're not willing to be transparent it shows how bigoted you are" shows a complete lack of reason.

Please grow up.

I'm judging by his other responses, not just the most recent ones. And your response is also judgemental: "Please grow up" is assuming that I'm immature, or suggesting that I'm childish. So, you're judging just as much as I am.

P.S. It's impossible not to make some kind of judgement call. In everything we do, we use judement. I'm just saying, there is an extreme.

 

[Duckybill]

I don't know you Duckbill, so I can't judge you, but judging by many of the comments and responses of yoursI have read, you come of as being v ery judgemental. Are you sure you're not a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

My comments are based on the Bible and homosexuality as this thread is about. If you feel you are being 'judged' it's because of God's Word has judged you. Yes, His Word is VERY 'judgmental' unto the unrepentant. Your false insinuation noted.

But let me ask you, what sins do YOU commit? I know you do something wrong. If you're not wiling to be transparent, then it proves how bigoted you are. Do you always follow the leading of the Spirit? Are you in constant obedience to your Lord? You know that disobedience is a sin, right? And you do know that disobedience will send you to Hell, right? Do you faithfully pay your tithes? According to the vision of Choo Thomas ("Heaven Is So Real"), people who don't pay their tithes are on their way to Hell. Do you forgive everyone? According to the vision of Loretta Blasengame ("Is There Anybody Up There?"), unforgiveness will send you to Hell. Do you witness to everyone you see (other than people over the internet)? According to the Korean artist girl, christians who don't witness are going to Hell. ...There are many things other than homosexuality that will send a person to Hell... according to your religion.

And this thread is about "homosexuality". That's what I have been commenting about. Why are you grilling me about other sins and things that are WAY off topic? Trying to shift the blame will not help you. You have the choice of lashing out against others who warn of the Biblical consequences of being homosexual as you are doing now, or repenting and being saved. The fact is, homosexuals will burn in Hell unless they repent, give up that sinful life. Christianity is about warning of the SEVERE consequences of rebelling against the living God of the Bible. He is VERY harsh to those who rebel, but VERY merciful to those who repent. We can't say we weren't warned can we.

Ezekiel 3:18-19 (NKJV)
18 When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

 

[Fire-7]

My comments are based on the Bible and homosexuality as this thread is about. If you feel you are being 'judged' it's because of God's Word has judged you. Yes, His Word is VERY 'judgmental' unto the unrepentant. Your false insinuation noted.

And this thread is about "homosexuality". That's what I have been commenting about. Why are you grilling me about other sins and things that are WAY off topic? Trying to shift the blame will not help you. You have the choice of lashing out against others who warn of the Biblical consequences of being homosexual as you are doing now, or repenting and being saved. The fact is, homosexuals will burn in Hell unless they repent, give up that sinful life. Christianity is about warning of the SEVERE consequences of rebelling against the living God of the Bible. He is VERY harsh to those who rebel, but VERY merciful to those who repent. We can't say we weren't warned can we.

Ezekiel 3:18-19 (NKJV)
18 When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

The fact is, you are heartless toward homosexuals. Why, I don't know. I doubt that you are interested in keeping anyone out of Hell. You probably just want to strut around (figuratively speaking), showing off your "righteousness" by putting other people down. I have met people like you who are harder on homosexuals than anyone else... which is why it angers me. It's not you. But you just represent people like the WBC, and G.Craig Lewis who express heir disdain of homosexuals by going around calling them sissies and fags (not saying you use that language)... without beign concerned about how it effect that person. That in itself is selfish. Homosexuals are just as much human as you are. But if you yourself are insecure, with inner self hatred, of course you're not going to give a hill of beans about anyone else, because it's not in you to begin with. I know there are people like this.

I'm not attacking you or trying to be mean. I just get upset when I see people singling out homosexuals as the scum of the earth...and it makes me think of all of the hate-mongering sermons I've heard against homosexuals.

And I know this thread is about homosexuality, so you have to speak on the subject, but I'm going from an observation I have made aside from this thread.

 

[Duckybill]

The fact is, you are heartless toward homosexuals.

Those who are "heartless" are those who do not warn that homosexuals will burn in Hell forever unless they repent/give up that sinful life. I'm doing you a favor.

 

[Fire-7]

Those who are "heartless" are those who do not warn that homosexuals will burn in Hell forever unless they repent/give up that sinful life. I'm doing you a favor.

You will probably never admit that you don't like homosexuals; they disgust you. As I said, I've dealt with people with your same attitude toward homosexuals. And it never fails... it's always something personal. Either they are fighting the same feelings deep within, or they are homophobic or just sincerely hate them because they don't understand them.

I remember Benny Hinn gave a prophecy, in the early 1990s, that God was going to destroy the homosexual community of america (followed by applause) "no later than the year 1995... not with what many have thought...but by fire...many will turn and be saved, and those who don't will be destroyed." He later admitted ,on TBN, that he had a personal problem with homosexuals. I guess he was forced to admit it after that prophecy didn't come to pass.

Megachurch preacher, Eddie Long, was the most vehement opposer of gay rights (marched in anti-gay parades and all), and preached very firey messages about homosexuals. And he's now been accused by 5 men of sexual coercion. No woman anywhere in the picture. All of his accusors are men. And even if the charges are not true, there is at least enough evidence to convict him of being a hypocrite... and I won't go into the details.

Ted Haggard spoke out against homosexuality, and look at what happened to him.

And the list goes on and on and on...

I myself pretended to be homophobic, for many years. And when people accused me of being it, I became infuriated that they would think such a thing. But I was really angry with myself for not being able to hide it well enough.

I'm not accusing you of being secretly homosexual, because I don't think you are. I think you genuinely hate homosexuals. The point I'm making is that whenever someone is preoccupied with what goes on in the bedroom of two consenting adults, something is wrong with that picture. What sexual acts do you and your wife do in your bedroom? Care to share? Details? Hmmm, you feel disrespected and violated that I would ask such a personal question ey? This is exactly how homosexuals feel.

...Oh, and don't worry about replying and wasting your time. I'll save you the trouble. "You're going to burn in Hell. - Duckbill" ...You're welcome

Have a nice day ...I'm done ->

 

[Duckybill]

You will probably never admit that you don't like homosexuals; they disgust you.

That comment is totally unjustified. What disgusts me is when 'Christians' try to cover up the Biblical doctrine that homosexuals are not Christians.

As I said, I've dealt with people with your same attitude toward homosexuals. And it never fails... it's always something personal. Either they are fighting the same feelings deep within, or they are homophobic or just sincerely hate them because they don't understand them.

Does it make you feel better to make this stuff up?

I remember Benny Hinn gave a prophecy, in the early 1990s, that God was going to destroy the homosexual community "no later than the year 1995... by fire...many will turn and be saved, and those who don't will be destroyed." He later admitted that he had a problem with homosexuals. I suppose he was forced to admit it after that prophecy didn't come to pass.

I guarantee you that I'm not Benny Hinn.

Eddie Long was the most vehement opposer of homosexuals (marched in anti-gay parades and all), and preached very hateful messages about homosexuals. And he's now been accused by 5 men of sexual coercion. No woman anywhere in the picture. All of his accusors are men. And even if the charges are not true, there is at least enough evidence to convict him of being a hypocrite... and I won't go into the details.

Ted Haggard spoke out against homosexuality, and look at what happened to him.

Nor Eddie Long or Ted Haggard.

and the list goes on and on and on... I myself pretended to be homophobic, most of my life. Adn when people accused me of being it, I became infuriated that they would think such a thing. But I was really angry with myself for not being able to hide it well enough.

I'm not accusing you of being secretly homosexual, because I don't think you are. I think you genuinely hate homosexuals. The point I'm making is that whenever someone is preoccupied with what goes on in the bedroom of two consenting adults, something is wrong with that picture. What sexual acts do you do in your bedroom? Care to share? Details? Hmmm, you feel disrespected and violated that I would ask such a personal question ey? This is exactly how homosexuals feel.

I don't flaunt my sexuality in public as gays do. They bring on much of their own grief. Stop blaming others. I would think your comment is a serious violation in this forum.

 

[NicholasMarks]

We are all sinners and the wages of sin is death and we all die. But, according to Jesus Christ...it is possible to live for all eternity. This must mean that we must learn to live without sin and in paying back for those sins that are killing us, we must repair ourselves...for that purpose. It doesn't matter which genetic malfunction causes our break with Almighty God, either we try and repair, or we don't. Many of these sins are hereditary because Jesus says that we carry the sins of our fathers and our forefathers but in following Jesus, accurately...that is...as he taught us, and not as others have interpreted it...we take advantage of Jesus holding the full weight of our sins, for us, until we are able to stand on our own two feet.

 

[Duckybill]

We are all sinners and the wages of sin is death and we all die. But, according to Jesus Christ...it is possible to live for all eternity. This must mean that we must learn to live without sin and in paying back for those sins that are killing us, we must repair ourselves...for that purpose. It doesn't matter which genetic malfunction causes our break with Almighty God, either we try and repair, or we don't. Many of these sins are hereditary because Jesus says that we carry the sins of our fathers and our forefathers but in following Jesus, accurately...that is...as he taught us, and not as others have interpreted it...we take advantage of Jesus holding the full weight of our sins, for us, until we are able to stand on our own two feet.

I've never quite thought of it like that, but very interesting.

 

[Fire-7]

Ducky, would you take the time to spiritually father a homosexual and nurture him or her into wholeness (or what you perceive to be wholeness), since they are "broken" (as the person above just illustrated)?

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky, would you take the time to spiritually father a homosexual and nurture him or her into wholeness (or what you perceive to be wholeness), since they are "broken" (as the person above just illustrated)?

Salvation is up to each individual.

Proverbs 28:13 (NKJV)
13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

There are no substitutes for repentance.

 

[Foreigner]

The fact is, you are heartless toward homosexuals. Why, I don't know. I doubt that you are interested in keeping anyone out of Hell.

-- Fire 7, you started a thread where you bemoaned the fact that you just couldn't make yourself pray.
Is baselessly accusing a fellow Christian of something that you yourself could never know the best way to correct your inability to talk to God?

 

[Fire-7]

Salvation is up to each individual.

Proverbs 28:13 (NKJV)
13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

There are no substitutes for repentance.

How'd I know that would be your answer...

The aged old, selfish "every man for himself" philosophy

 

[Duckybill]

How'd I know that would be your answer...

Probably because you know what the Bible says about it.

The aged old, selfish "every man for himself" philosophy

If you want to call the writers of the Bible selfish, ok. On Judgment Day it will be "every man for himself".

2 Corinthians 5:10-11 (NKJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

 

[aspen]

Fire-7

Like I have said before, I enjoy reading your posts and I am glad you have decided to become a member here. I also agree with you about many people who simply hate homosexuals, however, I am wondering, if it bothers you to listen to anti-homosexual rhetoric.....why do you choose to interact with people who obviously do not like who you are? Do you enjoy being criticized and despised? I am starting to get the impression that you either enjoy it or you are trying to prove that people really are homophobic - in the case of the latter, the answer is yes.

Finally, you already know that homophobia exists in every group - including homosexuals and Christians - no one who is genuinely hateful is going to change their opinion, especially when Christian doctrine appears to support their viewpoint. So I left wondering about your intentions.

blessings

 

[Fire-7]

Fire-7

Like I have said before, I enjoy reading your posts and I am glad you have decided to become a member here. I also agree with you about many people who simply hate homosexuals, however, I am wondering, if it bothers you to listen to anti-homosexual rhetoric.....why do you choose to interact with people who obviously do not like who you are? Do you enjoy being criticized and despised? I am starting to get the impression that you either enjoy it or you are trying to prove that people really are homophobic - in the case of the latter, the answer is yes.

Finally, you already know that homophobia exists in every group - including homosexuals and Christians - no one who is genuinely hateful is going to change their opinion, especially when Christian doctrine appears to support their viewpoint. So I left wondering about your intentions.

blessings

Thank you... and you actually make sense. I guess my point is to prove homophobia is real. To be honest and transparent, my intentions are simply that I want to be accepted and loved. It does hurt that people put me in the same category as murderers, rapists, thieves, liars, etc... simply because of who I love. I hate being misunderstood, because there is an intense feeling of isolation that comes along with it. And it seems like unless you have been a homosexual it's impossible to understand where I'm coming from. But I can understand it because it's impossible for me to understand where a heterosexual is coming from; I have tried. I just want there to be reconciliation, but it looks like there will never be, because people are too stubborn and set in their ways.

And no, I don't lie being criticized and hated. I think it's the other way around. I think hate-mogering christians like the criticism. Some people love to be hated. And they justify it by using the pasage of scripture that tells christians they will be hated and persecuted for Christ's sake. So I imagine it makes them feel closer to God, the more people they offend. I use the WBC as an examle often because they are the face of homophobia. The WBC seems to get off on being "the most hated people in America." You can see the smirks on their faces (watch some of their videos and see if I'm lying) as people taunt and mock them. They seem to enjoy it, and love the attention. They love telling people they're "going to burn in Hell" not because they care about them (it's obvious, because you can never do anything to please them: they will always find something wrong with you...and don't die fro any reason: it's the perfect oportunity for them to say it's God's judgement... and picket your funeral), but because they simply want to exalt themselves to the level of God's throne (in the first sin that was ever committed--pride).

Just look at how other Christian "ministers" are rejoicing over the death of the preacher, Zachery Timms. They enjoy saying "He's burning in Hell" (when they didn't even know him, first of all), like they work for the devil or something! It's bizzare. Many christians don;t care anything about someone being saved from Hell. They just thoroughly enjoy saying "You're going to burn in Hell!" because it makes them feel big.

But you're right. I can't make someone accept or love me, and I should just stop trying. Thanks fro the advice. Real talk

 

[aspen]

Well Fire,

I really appreciate your response. I can tell that you are in pain and I feel your loneliness. I am sorry that you have such a difficult burden to carry in this life. I am glad that we can talk. Although I cannot speak as a person who understands the isolation and the drive to point out the people who have hurt me, as a homosexual; I can speak as a human being who has experienced rejection. I know what it feels like to be hurt and then not believed - it has actually felt like I was going crazy.

My suggestion to you is to stop being shocked. Surrender to the existence of hatred in the world, without accepting the message of hatred. I am a witness to your pain. I am a witness to the fact that homophobia exists and is prevalent. You are not crazy. Learning to accept the fact that some people are hostile towards you for being homosexual is a key step to accepting yourself. Once you accept yourself, you will experience a freedom that will render any hate you encounter as meaningless.

I want you to know that I love you and am I praying for you on your journey.

Blessings

 

[Duckybill]

The thing about this is simply, God is not going to change to please any of us. We must do the changing to please Him. Otherwise, the loneliness, grief and sorrow will last for eternity. But it will be MUCH worse.

 

[Rach1370]

Thank you... and you actually make sense. I guess my point is to prove homophobia is real. To be honest and transparent, my intentions are simply that I want to be accepted and loved. It does hurt that people put me in the same category as murderers, rapists, thieves, liars, etc... simply because of who I love. I hate being misunderstood, because there is an intense feeling of isolation that comes along with it. And it seems like unless you have been a homosexual it's impossible to understand where I'm coming from. But I can understand it because it's impossible for me to understand where a heterosexual is coming from; I have tried. I just want there to be reconciliation, but it looks like there will never be, because people are too stubborn and set in their ways.

Fire of course you want to be loved and accepted, all people do! And please don't think all of us are tossing you in with the murderers and rapists etc. You're a sinner...I'm a sinner...every single person is a sinner. We're all the same! We differ in our sins, in our strengths and weaknesses, but that's it. The only other difference...and it's huge, is that my sin has been taken from me by Jesus. This by no means makes me perfect. I still struggle daily with my sins. But by loving Jesus and doing my best to follow Him and His teachings, I know that come the day I stand in front of God, He will see Jesus' righteousness, not my sins. That's it!
I recognise that being gay must be a terrible struggle, because sexuality is such an integral part of a person's very being. But try to understand this...sin is real, and it invades every part of us. All of us! The sin of pride is the worst one of all...and pride is so ingrained in all of us that it is the 'default emotion of the human heart'. Fire...people cannot deal with sin. We just can't. The state of the world today shows us this. Even the best Christian who has been born again still battles it. The only way we gain any ground against it is by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I truly don't know if you even want to fight against your homosexual feelings. When you first started posting here it sounded as if you did, but now not so much. If you do not want to fight against it, you need to know something...God says homosexuality is a sin. Just as sex outside marriage is a sin. This is God's rule, His call. As His children, Christians follow Him, not what people tell us should be expectable. I know you feel this is unfair, even mean, but you have to understand that as His children, and He being our Lord, saviour and God...we are concerned with what He thinks. So if you are truly seeking God, and want our help with your feelings, please, know that we will do all we can to help you. But if you feel you have to accept your feelings in direct opposition to God, I do wonder why you come here for acceptance for those feelings? We cannot give you our acceptance and approval...to do so would to be turn our backs on our beliefs and the direct command of our God.
I hope you understand this, and come to a measure of peace whatever you decide.

And no, I don't lie being criticized and hated. I think it's the other way around. I think hate-mogering christians like the criticism. Some people love to be hated. And they justify it by using the pasage of scripture that tells christians they will be hated and persecuted for Christ's sake. So I imagine it makes them feel closer to God, the more people they offend. I use the WBC as an examle often because they are the face of homophobia. The WBC seems to get off on being "the most hated people in America." You can see the smirks on their faces (watch some of their videos and see if I'm lying) as people taunt and mock them. They seem to enjoy it, and love the attention. They love telling people they're "going to burn in Hell" not because they care about them (it's obvious, because you can never do anything to please them: they will always find something wrong with you...and don't die fro any reason: it's the perfect oportunity for them to say it's God's judgement... and picket your funeral), but because they simply want to exalt themselves to the level of God's throne (in the first sin that was ever committed--pride).

By the way, the WBC bunch is the least Christian group I have ever come across, and that includes all Muslims in the world!

 

[marksman]

Fire 7 has raised the issue of acceptance and rejection that is commonly raised by homosexuals. Which is not unsurprising as homosexuality is a product of rejection so they spend all their time consciously or unconsciously trying to find acceptance.

When they are having sex with another man they are trying to find acceptance and due to the distorted image of themselves, sex equals acceptance. The problem is that two men who are dominated by rejection cannot provide acceptance to another so it is a self defeating exercise.

Constant rejection is one of the main reasons for homosexual suicide, not as some try to insist, the way they are treated by society. When you have experienced rejection, and I know what I am talking about here, you always blame everyone else for everything.

Acceptance is not based on "things" that is why same sex marriage is going to be a failure. They will get married and find out things are no different because the cause has not been addressed, the rejection inside. That is why on average homosexual partnerships last no longer than 18 months.

Until Fire 7 and any homosexual finds deliverance from rejection, they will be tormented by their emotions and feel that the world is against them. When you are free of rejection, it doesn't matter what other people think. I have been free of it for 35 years now and there are times that it raises its ugly head but by the grace of God, it doesn't last long as I know I am free in Christ so I don't have to listen to the lies of the devil, who after all is the father of lies.

Only God can give you that sort of deliverance, not man. Everyone needs a work of grace to root out the rejection and what it produces, a root of bitterness which leads to anger. When one is accepted by God, you see the world in a different light. Gone is the "poor me" syndrome which has dominated. It is replaced by I love everyone and everyone loves me. In other words you turn from seeing everything in a negative light and what can go wrong will go wrong into seeing everything in a positive light and what can go right will go right.

Here endeth the lesson. Stop that you naughty boy!!!! You are not in church now.

 

[Perspectives]

Well said, marksman. As everything started with The Father, so it ends for many with the father fracture The core need of every child is a father. In the media some celebs have said that they don't need a man to raise a child, but the child certainly does. Much of what we see in society is directly caused by a man being male and not a man. Many males can be men, few men are genuine fathers. The biblical directive is clear, Paul didn't call Timothy and Titus sons because of some term of endearment he liked to utter. These men were not Paul's biological off-spring, none the less they were his spiritual sons. Pouring into them what God gave him for the next generation, thereby healing the father fracture within them, and building upon the revelation that Paul left them. As it has been written, the first shall be last, and the last first.The Church was started with Apostles (fathers) it will finish with them too. I Peter 1:9 receiving the END of your faith, the salvation of your souls. Which is where the problems are found.