How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! ?
What if our idea of what is revenge and vengeance is what exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ? I say this because go to a church and hear the “exalting of itself” “I am saved by Grace” and on the other foot spout “but those that aren’t a part of our circle”, even our family and friends who have dissed us and don’t do as us going around spouting “we are just sinners saved by Grace” …they are going to pay for God takes “revenge” on disobedience?

God takes revenge on disobedience?
Then what of “I’m just a sinner saved by Grace”?

People need to realize, the penalty of sin is death

That's Gods judgment,. Not ours.

we do not have to like it. But those are the facts.

Its why Jesus became sin and DIED for us.

If we do not receive his grace in faith. then we will suffer his justice and wrath in the end..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. “Snatching them out of the fire”

the only people who will appear at this judgment are Gods people. people who have been saved. They are being judged for rewards.

The great white throne judgment, no one will be pulled from the fire.

 

[Episkopos]

People need to realize, the penalty of sin is death

That's Gods judgment,. Not ours.

we do not have to like it. But those are the facts.

Its why Jesus became sin and DIED for us.

If we do not receive his grace in faith. then we will suffer his justice and wrath in the end..

This is a silly notion. Your idea of receiving grace is to pat yourself on the back for claiming Jesus died for you.

But Jesus already died for the sins of the world...not for those who would claim that salvation for themselves. You make it look like those who are religiously self-interested and trying to save their own skin are saved...and all those who are honest and unassuming and honest and selfless are condemned.

You have things exactly backward.

You have not understood what the gospel is, grace is, or faith is.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul tells us that we must all appear before the Judgement Seat of Christ to give an account of our lives and our works whether they were good or bad, from self or in the spirit. Jesus taught in several of His parables about our personal responsibility for the talents He has given to every believer. There will be rewards and loss of rewards for every believers. Some are saved as Jude says by snatching them out of the fire in their corrupt flesh contaminated by sin.

Lizbeth brought up something earlier about a hard unrepentant heart stores up wrath. That stood out because of how true it is in this life …that hardness and unrepentant stores up and takes upon itself; some miserable consequences: Resentment, rage, no forgiveness, a gnashing of teeth, turmoil, grief, trouble, blindness, a whirlwind of calamity, sorrows, hatred, loss …wrath. What does a hardens and unrepentant heart bring upon us …death? Point is I can look at my past of hardened and unrepentant of heart …and what was stored up was wrath. Thankfully God removes the stone and gives a white stone with a new name written on it, New Jerusalem, which no man knows except him who receives it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

People need to realize, the penalty of sin is death

That's Gods judgment,. Not ours.

we do not have to like it. But those are the facts.

Its why Jesus became sin and DIED for us.

If we do not receive his grace in faith. then we will suffer his justice and wrath in the end..

What do you get out of the narrative?

Does the narrative exalt itself against the knowledge of Christ?

 

[ChristisGod]

No believer will be at the great white throne

Death and hades are delivered to Christ for the great white throne.

A child of God is neither dead or in hades. They are in paradise. and they will be ressurected by Christ, not delivered to him



name and claim what?

You either have true faith that what God is offering you is true or you do not

If you do not you do not have faith and you will not be saved.


Justify myself?

I do not know where you come up with this stuff. But for someone 3ho claims to have faith. You show no faith at all. You faithis in yourself and your ability. Not in God.

repent

Exactly and as James warns- not many should become teachers for they will incur a more severe judgement. And this is the case here.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

the only people who will appear at this judgment are Gods people. people who have been saved. They are being judged for rewards.

The great white throne judgment, no one will be pulled from the fire.

We are going to stay with our own narrative that suits us. I’d said earlier I grew up southern Baptist. Big rapture teaching instilled in me. But that one word “snatched” out of the fire. Was the only place I could find a link to raptured out from and it wasn’t like (Imo) how I’d been taught.

 

[ChristisGod]

This is a silly notion. Your idea of receiving grace is to pat yourself on the back for claiming Jesus died for you.

But Jesus already died for the sins of the world...not for those who would claim that salvation for themselves. You make it look like those who are religiously self-interested and trying to save their own skin are saved...and all those who are honest and unassuming and honest and selfless are condemned.

You have things exactly backward.

You have not understood what the gospel is, grace is, or faith is.

Wrong once again epi. His death made provision, it was the atonement for sin. His death does not save anyone apart from Faith in the Savior. No faith, no forgiveness. His death for ones sins happens once a person places their faith in Christ as per Romans 10. Without faith in Christ one is left dead in their sins. You seem like a universalist and believe annihilationism like the Jehovah Witness cult.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is a silly notion. Your idea of receiving grace is to pat yourself on the back for claiming Jesus died for you.

But Jesus already died for the sins of the world...not for those who would claim that salvation for themselves. You make it look like those who are religiously self-interested and trying to save their own skin are saved...and all those who are honest and unassuming and honest and selfless are condemned.

You have things exactly backward.

You have not understood what the gospel is, grace is, or faith is.

Patting myself on the back.. rofl

My friend. My faith is in God. Not myself. and definatly not some self proclaimed prophet who denies the price paid on the cross;.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What do you get out of the narrative?

Does the narrative exalt itself against the knowledge of Christ?

what narrative? Is this very difficult for people? i do not understand

That Christ took what was against us, and contrary to us and nailed it to the cross?

That the penalty of sin is death., The gift of God is life?

That he redeemed us with his blood.

That he made atonement for us through his blood

That he was the lamb of God who takes the sin of the world?

That he who knew no sin became sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in him?

Who payed for your sin debt to God. When you stand in front of him. What will you tell him? Why should he let you into heaven?

 

[GTW27]

Lizbeth brought up something earlier about a hard unrepentant heart stores up wrath. That stood out because of how true it is in this life …that hardness and unrepentant stores up and takes upon itself; some miserable consequences: Resentment, rage, no forgiveness, a gnashing of teeth, turmoil, grief, trouble, blindness, a whirlwind of calamity, sorrows, hatred, loss …wrath. What does a hardens and unrepentant heart bring upon us …death? Point is I can look at my past of hardened and unrepentant of heart …and what was stored up was wrath. Thankfully God removes the stone and gives a white stone with a new name written on it, New Jerusalem, which no man knows except him who receives it.

A root of bitterness grows from unforgiveness and leads to rage. But when we forgive one another, (as we have been forgiven) it kills this root of bitterness and love prevails. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. A message to two, that The Lord sees as one. Let us forgive one another.

 

[ChristisGod]

A root of bitterness grows from unforgiveness and leads to rage. But when we forgive one another, (as we have been forgiven) it kills this root of bitterness and love prevails. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. A message to two, that The Lord sees as one. Let us forgive one another.

Amen !

 

[Lizbeth]

Lizbeth brought up something earlier about a hard unrepentant heart stores up wrath. That stood out because of how true it is in this life …that hardness and unrepentant stores up and takes upon itself; some miserable consequences: Resentment, rage, no forgiveness, a gnashing of teeth, turmoil, grief, trouble, blindness, a whirlwind of calamity, sorrows, hatred, loss …wrath. What does a hardens and unrepentant heart bring upon us …death? Point is I can look at my past of hardened and unrepentant of heart …and what was stored up was wrath. Thankfully God removes the stone and gives a white stone with a new name written on it, New Jerusalem, which no man knows except him who receives it.

You are equating a belief in the wrath of God with hardness of heart. That is I think called a false equivalency. If we have God's heart we are willing that none should perish, we do not delight in the death of the wicked but would rather that they repent in order to receive that white stone and soft heart that God can write His laws on......just as He did for us.

 

[Lizbeth]

Following along because I struggle with all the different perspectives of God takes revenge. I’m not struggling with the idea of God has revenge, as in “oh that doesn’t sit well with me” but instead how does God take revenge that is so different than my taking revenge, that He says “Vengeance is mine, I will repay”.

To me 2 Corinthians 10:6 days a lot “And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.”

A readiness to revenge all disobedience
When your obedience is fulfilled:
How does “obedience” revenge all disobedience?

In context
2 Corinthians 10:3-8 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. [7] Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. [8] For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

Revenge belongs to me says the Lord?
When your obedience is fulfilled, all disobedience is revenged.
?

When the time is ripe and it becomes evident who is fulfilling obedience and who are disobedient, Paul is warning them that even though he may seem not to be bold when present, he is actually equipped and capable in the Lord of being very bold in unleashing rebuke/chastisement or other discipline if necessary. Not carnal, but spiritual, for their good, in hopes of correcting in the Lord, those who are being disobedient and getting them on the right track. Yes, for edification not destruction of those who belong to God. He chastises who He loves as sons. (Different story in the end to those who don't belong to God and aren't sons.)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are going to stay with our own narrative that suits us. I’d said earlier I grew up southern Baptist. Big rapture teaching instilled in me. But that one word “snatched” out of the fire. Was the only place I could find a link to raptured out from and it wasn’t like (Imo) how I’d been taught.

the word rapture is a word that means to be caught up. not snatched out. It comes from a latin word raptura, which is used in

the word is found in scripture here.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

In the latin, That word caught up is raptura. hence where we get the term rapture.

Jesus also promised he would raise us up, those who believe, which is the same concept.

Jesus said in John 6,

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus promised he would raise his children. those who believe. on the last day.

If you look. those at the great white are not raised by Jesus, they are delivered to him

Rev 20: 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

You see
1. They were delivered not raised
2. Death and hades were delivered
3. Death and hades were cast into the lake of fire.

There are not children of God at this judgment, we are raised by him, an will be spared this judgment. All because of Christ. and the cross.. Apart from the cross. we would all be here. and we would all be dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are equating a belief in the wrath of God with hardness of heart. That is I think called a false equivalency. If we have God's heart we are willing that none should perish, we do not delight in the death of the wicked but would rather that they repent in order to receive that white stone and soft heart that God can write His laws on......just as He did for us.

100% amen.

We, like God, are willing that non should perish, but all come to saving grace..

 

[Lizbeth]

I think believers often forget this. Judgment begins in the house of God. There will be many surprises...many tears and a lot of anger...based on those who thought their salvation was forever settled by a superficial religious transaction (much of modern Christendom).

1Pe 4:17

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Check the context of that verse in your bible. We as believers are undergoing that judgment now in this life, through the trials and tribs (chastisements) that we suffer now.....working it all together for our good to those who love Him. We are not appointed unto wrath. But that is sadly unlike the unbelieving who will receive of His judgment in the form of wrath in the end.

And do you realize you are calling being born again a superficial religious transaction? When it is nothing less than the gospel and plan of God for salvation? The very mystery of God from the foundation of the world??

That's not the problem. Naming and claiming will only bring you condemnation when all is brought to the light. People deny the power of the cross by avoiding it at all costs...in order to preserve their "saved" lives. Instead, many claim to be "positionally" (theoretically) crucified with Christ as a religious contrivance. Such are reserved for judgment at the Bema seat. Repentance is now.

It is not just positionally....it is actual, but in spirit. Only partially brought into the level of our soul, depending on the measure we received when we first believed......that is the battle we are fighting in this life now, that God's will would be done in our earth (soul&body) as it has already been done in our heaven, ie, spirit. Flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit lusting against the flesh. Battle. War. The good FIGHT of faith.

 

[Episkopos]

1Pe 4:17

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Check the context of that verse in your bible. We as believers are undergoing that judgment now in this life, through the trials and tribs (chastisements) that we suffer now.....working it all together for our good to those who love Him.

For those who love Him...in Spirit and truth.

We are not appointed unto wrath.

Who's we??? This always gets me... The..."ALL believers" The "all who claim Jesus as Lord"...which is so irresponsible knowing that many will be rejected.

If people insist on resisting the truth...then they are simply fitting themselves into the condemnation that is coming on all hypocrites.

But that is sadly unlike the unbelieving who will receive of His judgment in the form of wrath in the end.

Again, you are doing a wrong dividing. Your world is from the perspective of a "bible lady"...not an enlightened disciple. There is only the vaguest line between what the world sees as believers and unbelievers.

Jesus would correct you. Read the parable of the two sons.

Many who claim to believe live as if there is no God. And many who are not believers live as if there is a God.

Who are any of us to judge the heart? You are ONLY judging by the mouth. Lip-service is not impressive to God...just people. And there are many here who profess to be believers and are filthy in their behaviour. if you could discern you would see that...and see your own religious judgmental bent. And see that it is WORSE than the meek who are unable to claim anything good for themselves.

And do you realize you are calling being born again a superficial religious transaction?

How many carnal accusers here are actually born again? By the Spirit? Very few. Most believe that born again means they have adopted a salvation scheme based on accepting and claiming the sacrifice of Jesus for themselves. They have bought into a scheme sold by slick bible salesmen in order to make a profit in this world.

And the few in the rich and spoiled WEST who are born again often are seduced into the same lies that the others are...why? To not be alone. If the fish are swimming in one direction...they follow along. But only dead fish follow the current.

When it is nothing less than the gospel and plan of God for salvation? The very mystery of God from the foundation of the world??

The religious scheme is the counterfeit to the actual resurrection life that comes with the New Covenant. But only those who have been awakened into an eternal consciousness understand that. The carnal rely of dogmatic religion based on something the outer man can grab hold of and defend with their fangs and claws...as we see right here on these threads.

It is not just positionally....it is actual, but in spirit.

You say that here...but you believe that your inner man is already positionally...theoretically, and religiously in heaven. So you are spiritualizing something that is actually something you have access to by grace through faith. So then your reliance on a make-believe fable...although that is indeed gleaned from fact....means you will never seek God's face or go to the throne of grace. Your assumptions cancel out any faith you could produce.

Only partially brought into the level of our soul, depending on the measure we received when we first believed......that is the battle we are fighting in this life now, that God's will would be done in our earth (soul&body) as it has already been done in our heaven, ie, spirit.

This is a misappropriation from the Lord's prayer. God's will is not our will. Our will is supposed to line up with His will. But that only happens through surrender...not spiritualization. Your error is monumental, if you think all who begin a race are able to finish...or finish well.

Flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit lusting against the flesh. Battle. War. The good FIGHT of faith.

For you this is a battle of fact vs make-believe. You are fighting a war of the mind with two opposing thoughts...sure...but that are each based on a type of unbelief. The same unbelief as the Israelites in the wilderness...who believed in the existence of God..but not in His power beyond their own understanding to do more than their own expectation.

Will you go to God to receive the full measure of grace? No, you won't. You will fight as hard as any atheist in the world against the will of God in that regard. Why won't you? You rely on human beliefs...not faith...and certainly not the faith OF Christ.

Instead, humble yourself under the mighty hand of God...seek His face and live!

 

[ChristisGod]

1Pe 4:17

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Check the context of that verse in your bible. We as believers are undergoing that judgment now in this life, through the trials and tribs (chastisements) that we suffer now.....working it all together for our good to those who love Him. We are not appointed unto wrath. But that is sadly unlike the unbelieving who will receive of His judgment in the form of wrath in the end.

And do you realize you are calling being born again a superficial religious transaction? When it is nothing less than the gospel and plan of God for salvation? The very mystery of God from the foundation of the world??

It is not just positionally....it is actual, but in spirit. Only partially brought into the level of our soul, depending on the measure we received when we first believed......that is the battle we are fighting in this life now, that God's will would be done in our earth (soul&body) as it has already been done in our heaven, ie, spirit. Flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit lusting against the flesh. Battle. War. The good FIGHT of faith.

Amen you have discernment. Don’t let him fool you sister

 

[amigo de christo]

Sometimes too much reasoning is the problem when we need to just receive the word of God. Now is the day of salvation, yes, and God's longsuffering, but the word says this age of grace and salvation is coming to an end.

Maybe this will help with some of what you're grappling with.....we know that God uses angels to execute His will....what if He likewise uses Satan and his fallen angels to execute His judgment/wrath, since they are still angels. And this is why it says that God created the Destroyer to work havoc .....because God foreknew that the devil and his angels would fall (but not that He caused them to fall).

exactly sister . Who was the first one to bring up the name of JOB .
GOD said have you considered my servant job .......................
YET all of this was allowed for the GOOD OF JOB . JOB came out with even GREATER FAITH in GOD than ever before .
YES GOD allows persecutions and tribulations against the saints . JAMES said what persecutoins
will do for us , IF WE take them patiently . SEE . GOD works ALL things together for the good of those who love HIM .