How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[ChristisGod]

You believe God is full of wrath?

If this were the case then the fruit of his spirit in them would also have wrath.

Galatians 5:17-23 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
Galatians 5:17-23 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Jesus and the first century Christian’s display fully the Spirit of God.

Wrath belongs to the flesh. It’s time too stop vilifying God.

So Gods wrath is sinful ? Is that your position ?

 

[Waiting on him]

So Gods wrath is sinful ? Is that your position ?

I’m trying too reason how it is Jesus and the first century Christian’s had the Spirit of God in them, yet there was no wrath in them?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You believe God is full of wrath?

If this were the case then the fruit of his spirit in them would also have wrath.

Galatians 5:17-23 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
Galatians 5:17-23 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Jesus and the first century Christian’s display fully the Spirit of God.

Wrath belongs to the flesh. It’s time too stop vilifying God.

So when she posted scripture telling us not to take vengeance. But to leave that to God. And when God said Vengence is mine..She is vilifying God?

I guess the last days of great tribulation when the wrath of God is poured out on the earth is vilifying God also?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly .
SO lets ask a question .
WHO determines what is true . is it me , you , govts , society
WHO determines what is good and what is evil . Is it you me , govts , society .
ITS GOD . let us learn those bibles well . Let us learn that CHRIST well . Let us learn all things
in the scriptures WELL .
We dont determine truth , we dont determine right or wrong , we dont determine what is true or false . GOD DOES .
Now lift those hands . BIBLE TIME and let no man sway us from its truth .
For many come in saying oh we know so much more now than they did back then .
YET GOD HAS ALWAYS KNOWN ALL THINGS .
An example .
One was trying to explain why homosexuality is now acceptable .
They were saying , OH we know so much more about it than they did back then . WE have learned so much .
YEAH , okie dokey , but they forgot something . WE DONT KNOW MORE THAN GOD DOES OR DID about ANYTHING .
AND HE already SAID was HE had to say about certain things . They clever , but lambs see right through the lies and trust in GOD alone
and HIS CHRIST alone and stay well planted in the bible .

I think the word is clear. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. He never changes.

Salvation from adam has been by grace through faith. It has never been any different.

Same with sexual sin,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m trying to reason how it is Jesus and the first century Christian’s had the Spirit of God in them, yet there was no wrath in them?

Jesus told us, He did not come to judge, he came to save.

 

[Lizbeth]

You believe God is full of wrath?

If this were the case then the fruit of his spirit in them would also have wrath.

Galatians 5:17-23 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
Galatians 5:17-23 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Jesus and the first century Christian’s display fully the Spirit of God.

Wrath belongs to the flesh. It’s time too stop vilifying God.

Oh, but it's the other way around, those who believe as you do are vilifying God in accusing His anger/wrath of being unrighteous!

Scripture says to behold both the severity and goodness of God. The wrath of man is of the flesh, yes, but God's anger is not of the flesh. His anger/wrath is righteous and holy. And it is possible for His Spirit to rise up in a believer in righteous anger. We often see Paul being less than polite with the churches he wrote to. Jesus is both the Lamb of God as well as the Lion of Judah. Remember Him in the Temple driving out the money-changers with a whip. Remember Him telling the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil. Do you think God never rebukes or that His Spirit in us would never rebuke? How about we even remember Jesus on the cross receiving the wrath of God upon Himself, in His flesh, for real, in real-time, on behalf of all who would believe in Him. "Father, why have you forsaken me?" What do you think is going to happen to this evil world in the end? The same thing that happened to unrepentant Jerusalem in 70 AD. First God gave them over to their evil, so that their transgression could come to the full in order to be fully judged, then He gave them over to His judgment...DESTRUCTION.

Rom 2:5

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and REVELATION of the righteous judgment of God (hence the book of REVELATION)

Rom 9:21-23

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew (ie, reveal) his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known (reveal) the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


His perfect, holy, righteous nature isn’t all just butterflies and rainbows. We better wake up from that fairy tale and learn who God is. He is a jealous God who is the one who created both good and evil……and His scales are perfectly balanced and just……He is to be feared and revered, not mocked.

The whole problem with a man-centric gospel that thinks God exists for our sakes rather than the other way around, is that it's the opposite of what God is looking for....He wants and is utterly worthy to be worshiped and feared/revered by us, not that we should place ourselves at the centre and worship ourselves/man and think God does too. 'What is man that He is mindful of us?"

 

[amigo de christo]

So Gods wrath is sinful ? Is that your position ?

Every judgment of GOD is righteous . Let us always praise and thank the glorious Lord my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh, but it's the other way around, those who believe as you do are vilifying God in accusing His anger/wrath of being unrighteous!

Scripture says to behold both the severity and goodness of God. The wrath of man is of the flesh, yes, but God's anger is not of the flesh. His anger/wrath is righteous and holy. And it is possible for His Spirit to rise up in a believer in righteous anger. We often see Paul being less than polite with the churches he wrote to. Jesus is both the Lamb of God as well as the Lion of Judah. Remember Him in the Temple driving out the money-changers with a whip. Remember Him telling the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil. Do you think God never rebukes or that His Spirit in us would never rebuke? How about we even remember Jesus on the cross receiving the wrath of God upon Himself, in His flesh, for real, in real-time, on behalf of all who would believe in Him. "Father, why have you forsaken me?" What do you think is going to happen to this evil world in the end? The same thing that happened to unrepentant Jerusalem in 70 AD. First God gave them over to their evil, so that their transgression could come to the full in order to be fully judged, then He gave them over to His judgment...DESTRUCTION.

Rom 2:5

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and REVELATION of the righteous judgment of God (hence the book of REVELATION)

Rom 9:21-23

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew (ie, reveal) his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known (reveal) the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


His perfect, holy, righteous nature isn’t all just butterflies and rainbows. We better wake up from that fairy tale and learn who God is. He is a jealous God who is the one who created both good and evil……and His scales are perfectly balanced and just……He is to be feared and revered, not mocked.

The whole problem with a man-centric gospel that thinks God exists for our sakes rather than the other way around, is that it's the opposite of what God is looking for....He wants and is utterly worthy to be worshiped and feared/revered by us, not that we should place ourselves at the centre and worship ourselves/man and think God does too. 'What is man that He is mindful of us?"

Yes dear sister . Satan knows how to create a religoin all right . Preach a god that serves them , one made in the image of man
and boy they come a running . Humanistic religion one o one . That is right sister . Point to the LORD and let all
glory be HIS .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh, but it's the other way around, those who believe as you do are vilifying God in accusing His anger/wrath of being unrighteous!

Scripture says to behold both the severity and goodness of God. The wrath of man is of the flesh, yes, but God's anger is not of the flesh. His anger/wrath is righteous and holy. And it is possible for His Spirit to rise up in a believer in righteous anger. We often see Paul being less than polite with the churches he wrote to. Jesus is both the Lamb of God as well as the Lion of Judah. Remember Him in the Temple driving out the money-changers with a whip. Remember Him telling the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil. Do you think God never rebukes or that His Spirit in us would never rebuke? How about we even remember Jesus on the cross receiving the wrath of God upon Himself, in His flesh, for real, in real-time, on behalf of all who would believe in Him. "Father, why have you forsaken me?" What do you think is going to happen to this evil world in the end? The same thing that happened to unrepentant Jerusalem in 70 AD. First God gave them over to their evil, so that their transgression could come to the full in order to be fully judged, then He gave them over to His judgment...DESTRUCTION.

Rom 2:5

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and REVELATION of the righteous judgment of God (hence the book of REVELATION)

Rom 9:21-23

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew (ie, reveal) his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known (reveal) the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


His perfect, holy, righteous nature isn’t all just butterflies and rainbows. We better wake up from that fairy tale and learn who God is. He is a jealous God who is the one who created both good and evil……and His scales are perfectly balanced and just……He is to be feared and revered, not mocked.

The whole problem with a man-centric gospel that thinks God exists for our sakes rather than the other way around, is that it's the opposite of what God is looking for....He wants and is utterly worthy to be worshiped and feared/revered by us, not that we should place ourselves at the centre and worship ourselves/man and think God does too. 'What is man that He is mindful of us?"

people do not want to see or admit God is not only a righteous and just God. he is a wrathful God as well.

He is patient at the present, willing that non should perish. But his wrath will come. Not only on this earth. But in the end at the great white throne judgment when he sends sinners to where they belong (those who have rejected Gods grace)

people deny what the cross did..

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus told us, He did not come to judge, he came to save.

JESUS came to save , LET THE KING BE PRAISED .
But His WORD will be the judge on the last day . So let all run to CHRIST while there still be time to do so .
For once the master of the HOUSE has risen up and shut the door and HE does tread the winepress of the wrath of GOD ,
it will be too late . The LORD is our hope and our salvation .

 

[amigo de christo]

people do not want to see or admit God is not only a righteous and just God. he is a wrathful God as well.

He is patient at the present, willing that non should perish. But his wrath will come. Not only on this earth. But in the end at the great white throne judgment when he sends sinners to where they belong (those who have rejected Gods grace)

people deny what the cross did..

Paul had wisdom from the LORD . HE says , for it is the righteous judgment of GOD
All judgment of GOD is righteous . Yes indeed .
Evil will be destroyed . a new heaven and a new earth wherein righteous shall dwell .
Folks have no problem looking for or beleving in a earth that had no rape , no evil , no lies , no wickedness ,
YET seem to have a problem with GOD eventually getting rid of all that .
YET HE has given man the way out of destruction . HIS NAME IS JESUS . GOD is love so HE DID send the SON
that all who would believe would not PERISH but have everlasting life .
YET most folks would rather preach a false love of GOD that denies FAITH IN THAT SAVOIR
and that supports evils . I SAY preach the LOVE OF GOD , WHICH POINTS TOO and HONORS THE SON and the FATHER who sent HIM
and WILL save one indeed if they believe . KING JESUS the savoir .

 

[Lizbeth]

I’m trying too reason how it is Jesus and the first century Christian’s had the Spirit of God in them, yet there was no wrath in them?

Sometimes too much reasoning is the problem when we need to just receive the word of God. Now is the day of salvation, yes, and God's longsuffering, but the word says this age of grace and salvation is coming to an end.

Maybe this will help with some of what you're grappling with.....we know that God uses angels to execute His will....what if He likewise uses Satan and his fallen angels to execute His judgment/wrath, since they are still angels. And this is why it says that God created the Destroyer to work havoc .....because God foreknew that the devil and his angels would fall (but not that He caused them to fall).

 

[Episkopos]

people do not want to see or admit God is not only a righteous and just God. he is a wrathful God as well.

I think believers often forget this. Judgment begins in the house of God. There will be many surprises...many tears and a lot of anger...based on those who thought their salvation was forever settled by a superficial religious transaction (much of modern Christendom).

He is patient at the present, willing that non should perish. But his wrath will come.

Yes...

Not only on this earth. But in the end at the great white throne judgment when he sends sinners to where they belong (those who have rejected Gods grace)

The GWT judgment will indeed send many to the lake of fire...all those who are not written in the Book of Life. But what you are missing is that those who are indeed written in the Book of Life will inherit life.

people deny what the cross did..

That's not the problem. Naming and claiming will only bring you condemnation when all is brought to the light. People deny the power of the cross by avoiding it at all costs...in order to preserve their "saved" lives. Instead, many claim to be "positionally" (theoretically) crucified with Christ as a religious contrivance. Such are reserved for judgment at the Bema seat. Repentance is now.

In your scheme you justify yourself for your beliefs in "what the cross did". As if knowing about the cross is by a special saving (Gnostic) knowledge. Demons also know what the cross did. Religious arrogance will claim the benefit of the cross for itself...not realizing that judgment is coming. We will all be judged against what we have believed, what we have claimed to be, and what we have done with what we have been given.

But how many have any wisdom beyond what is carnally self-serving?

Where is faith?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Rom 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord.

Following along because I struggle with all the different perspectives of God takes revenge. I’m not struggling with the idea of God has revenge, as in “oh that doesn’t sit well with me” but instead how does God take revenge that is so different than my taking revenge, that He says “Vengeance is mine, I will repay”.

To me 2 Corinthians 10:6 days a lot “And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.”

A readiness to revenge all disobedience
When your obedience is fulfilled:
How does “obedience” revenge all disobedience?

In context
2 Corinthians 10:3-8 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. [7] Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. [8] For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

Revenge belongs to me says the Lord?
When your obedience is fulfilled, all disobedience is revenged.
?

 

[ChristisGod]

I think believers often forget this. Judgment begins in the house of God. There will be many surprises...many tears and a lot of anger...based on those who thought their salvation was forever settled by a superficial religious transaction (much of modern Christendom).



Yes...

The GWT judgment will indeed send many to the lake of fire...all those who are not written in the Book of Life. But what you are missing is that those who are indeed written in the Book of Life will inherit life.


That's not the problem. Naming and claiming will only bring you condemnation when all is brought to the light. People deny the power of the cross by avoiding it at all costs...in order to preserve their "saved" lives. Instead, many claim to be "positionally" (theoretically) crucified with Christ as a religious contrivance. Such are reserved for judgment at the Bema seat. Repentance is now.

In your scheme you justify yourself for your beliefs in "what the cross did". As if knowing about the cross is by a special saving (Gnostic) knowledge. Demons also know what the cross did. Religious arrogance will claim the benefit of the cross for itself...not realizing that judgment is coming. We will all be judged against what we have believed, what we have claimed to be, and what we have done with what we have been given.

But how many have any wisdom beyond what is carnally self-serving?

Where is faith?

another post projecting and equivocating. you tear down and never build up others. if you really had any gifts from God everyone here would see you building up others not tearing them down on a daily basis. its rather evident you are operating in the flesh and the deeds of the flesh and not in the Spirit. the fruit or lack thereof is self evident.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Sure, that's the usual accusation. We are to love, even our enemies, and only seek that the lost be reconciled to God. But the bible speaks in many places of God's judgment. Here's one:

Rom 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord.

Amen !

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Amen !

Amen! ?
What if our idea of what is revenge and vengeance is what exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ? I say this because go to a church and hear the “exalting of itself” “I am saved by Grace” and on the other foot spout “but those that aren’t a part of our circle”, even our family and friends who have dissed us and don’t do as us going around spouting “we are just sinners saved by Grace” …they are going to pay for God takes “revenge” on disobedience?

God takes revenge on disobedience?
Then what of “I’m just a sinner saved by Grace”?

 

[ChristisGod]

Amen! ?
What if our idea of what is revenge and vengeance is what exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ? I say this because go to a church and hear the “exalting of itself” “I am saved by Grace” and on the other foot spout “but those that aren’t a part of our circle”, even our family and friends who have dissed us and don’t do as us going around spouting “we are just sinners saved by Grace” …they are going to pay for God takes “revenge” on disobedience?

God takes revenge on disobedience?
Then what of “I’m just a sinner saved by Grace”?

Paul tells us that we must all appear before the Judgement Seat of Christ to give an account of our lives and our works whether they were good or bad, from self or in the spirit. Jesus taught in several of His parables about our personal responsibility for the talents He has given to every believer. There will be rewards and loss of rewards for every believers. Some are saved as Jude says by snatching them out of the fire in their corrupt flesh contaminated by sin.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

by snatching them out of the fire

Yes. “Snatching them out of the fire”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think believers often forget this. Judgment begins in the house of God. There will be many surprises...many tears and a lot of anger...based on those who thought their salvation was forever settled by a superficial religious transaction (much of modern Christendom).



Yes...

The GWT judgment will indeed send many to the lake of fire...all those who are not written in the Book of Life. But what you are missing is that those who are indeed written in the Book of Life will inherit life.

No believer will be at the great white throne

Death and hades are delivered to Christ for the great white throne.

A child of God is neither dead or in hades. They are in paradise. and they will be ressurected by Christ, not delivered to him

That's not the problem. Naming and claiming will only bring you condemnation when all is brought to the light. People deny the power of the cross by avoiding it at all costs...in order to preserve their "saved" lives. Instead, many claim to be "positionally" (theoretically) crucified with Christ as a religious contrivance. Such are reserved for judgment at the Bema seat. Repentance is now.

name and claim what?

You either have true faith that what God is offering you is true or you do not

If you do not you do not have faith and you will not be saved.

In your scheme you justify yourself for your beliefs in "what the cross did". As if knowing about the cross is by a special saving (Gnostic) knowledge. Demons also know what the cross did. Religious arrogance will claim the benefit of the cross for itself...not realizing that judgment is coming. We will all be judged against what we have believed, what we have claimed to be, and what we have done with what we have been given.

But how many have any wisdom beyond what is carnally self-serving?

Where is faith?

Justify myself?

I do not know where you come up with this stuff. But for someone 3ho claims to have faith. You show no faith at all. You faithis in yourself and your ability. Not in God.

repent